Ricky Romero to Dunedin of the Florida State League (A)

[J-Roc]

Just another thought, as I think of the Raps. This is a big league move by the GM/franchise. It's putting the game, the team ahead of a player the marketing people might prefer. It's putting the team ahead of keeping a guy happy, or forcing a player to be better than they are, sticking a square peg in a round hole. When I first heard JPA would catch Dickey, I worried our team might be playing up to popular individuals, but this move makes me believe they're simply doing what they believe is best for winning.

[akakalakin]

I know Ricky feels bad, but will he return the money he doesn't deserve?

[Schad]

I know Ricky feels bad, but will he return the money he doesn't deserve?

There is a reason why Romero, and other players, have signed below-market long-term deals before hitting arbitration: baseball is a sport where injuries are commonplace, and particularly with pitchers they can derail a career. That's the inherent risk/reward of the growing trend toward such deals...if the player stays healthy and maintains their performance, the team wins in a massive way. It's moronic to shame a player for getting injured; it's more so given that the contract exists solely because both sides were hedging against that very possibility, because you sure as hell wouldn't be crowing for the team to rip up the deal and give Romero a larger pile of cash if he was outperforming the contract.

Actually, on that score: Ricky has been worth 10.4 WAR thus far in his career. Accounting for all money that will be paid to him through the end of his contract, including even his signing bonus, he'll have been paid less than $35m by the Jays...in other words, he's still been underpaid for the performance that he has provided over the course of his tenure, even if he doesn't play another game.

[engageTHEmasses]

Just another thought, as I think of the Raps. This is a big league move by the GM/franchise. It's putting the game, the team ahead of a player the marketing people might prefer. It's putting the team ahead of keeping a guy happy, or forcing a player to be better than they are, sticking a square peg in a round hole. When I first heard JPA would catch Dickey, I worried our team might be playing up to popular individuals, but this move makes me believe they're simply doing what they believe is best for winning.

agreed. i was just thinking that this move made me think of JPA-- that maybe they really see something in him and believe he can keep growing with us/be the right player on this team. i dunno. it's easy to knock him, obv., but numbers/trends aren't always right-- sometimes a team sees what they like in a guy and he surprises everyone.

i'm not saying JPA is gonna be the best C we've ever had and will do anything but he has been, but if the team has decided to believe in him then, based on all these other moves they're making (especially with RR today), i'm gonna wait it out. i think they just wanna win.

[polo007]

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/03/ ... omero-fix/

DUNEDIN, Fla. — In retrospect, Pete Walker wishes he would have started sooner on the Ricky Romero reclamation project. Perhaps then the Toronto Blue Jays and their struggling pitcher could have avoided the angst that unfolded behind closed doors late Tuesday afternoon.

With a week to go before the season opener, Romero was exiled to the minor leagues to tackle a set of slippery adjustments in his delivery. He had been working on them for several weeks, and told himself he was making progress. His handlers concluded he needed more time, that his presence in the rotation would hurt the team.

He took the news hard.

“He certainly had a difficult time with it when we told him,” said Walker, the Jays’ pitching coach. “It was not easy. He certainly wants to be in Toronto and be with the guys. I think he was a little disappointed that he wasn’t going to be there, that’s for sure.

“I think he doesn’t want to disappoint his teammates and the fans, and I think part of him feels like he did, which is the farthest thing from the truth. He’s working on something. He’s making adjustments.”

Romero remained incommunicado Wednesday. He has 72 hours to report to minor-league camp, where he will join his new teammates with Class-A Dunedin. He will stay in the minors for as long as it takes to fix his delivery, general manager Alex Anthopoulos said.

After a banner year in 2011, Romero struggled throughout last season. His mechanics were out of whack, causing severe control problems. He developed tendinitis in both knees. Between starts his elbow hurt more than normal and he kept that quiet, but he needed minor elbow surgery after the season and started a treatment program for his knees.

Walker was the bullpen coach last year, second in command to pitching coach Bruce Walton. They discussed the left-hander’s inability to keep his hips and landing foot in line with home plate, but decided in-season adjustments were inadvisable.

[Avenger]

I know Ricky feels bad, but will he return the money he doesn't deserve?

There is a reason why Romero, and other players, have signed below-market long-term deals before hitting arbitration: baseball is a sport where injuries are commonplace, and particularly with pitchers they can derail a career. That's the inherent risk/reward of the growing trend toward such deals...if the player stays healthy and maintains their performance, the team wins in a massive way. It's moronic to shame a player for getting injured; it's more so given that the contract exists solely because both sides were hedging against that very possibility, because you sure as hell wouldn't be crowing for the team to rip up the deal and give Romero a larger pile of cash if he was outperforming the contract.

I don't want to get into another big spat about Romero but his contract was never a steal, it was very player friendly with very little upside for the team. He would have had to break arbitration records(or come close to it) for the Jays to gain any significant positive value out of that contract in the free agent years.

This isn't revisionist history either, here's something i said in 2011 when Randle went on and on about Romero and his steal of a contract. Hey, even a broken clock can be right twice a day.

Its pretty unlikely that Romero would have made 20 million in arbitration, i have facts on my side to prove it, you on the other hand like to pull things out of your ass.

Dontrelle Willis, Jered WEaver and Carlos Zambrano are the arbitration record holders for arbitration years 1,2 and 3 respectively. Even if you combine their salaries it only comes to 24 million, Romero would have had to have done extremely well in Arbitration(considerably better than his peers with similar stats) to come close to 20 million. If you look at pitchers that he actually compares to, most of them don't come close to earning 20 million in salaries. Even Jered Weaver with his league leading K's and 3.01 ERA in 2010 and his 1.86 ERA in 2011 will barely get to 20 million after this year.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/04/a ... chers.html

You also don't seem to have a basic understanding of things like risk vs reward. The Reward for the Jays is really 2 free agent years at about 20 million, even if you think Romero is gonna be a fabulous pitcher that will set arbitration records that's really not extraordinary savings and they don't justify the risks. The risks on the other hand are huge, you gave out a contract which you didn't have to do for 3.5 years and you can't cut bait if something wrong. You take on substantial risks of injury and regression and you barely get anything in return.

Look at what happened with Scott Kazmir, the Rays handed out a contract despite being under no obligation to do so and look how horrific that turned out to be. Since the Rays were smart to enough to bail on him at the right time, it was the Angels who got ass raped.

Its nothing but blind optimism to believe that nothing is gonna go wrong with Romero and that he'll be the exact same pitcher for 5 and half years. Its not wise to hand out guaranteed contracts to pitchers when you don't have to do so and hope that everything goes right, that's kind of what we did with Romero.

viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1125245&start=270&p=28611392&view=show#p28611392

[Randle McMurphy]

This obsession of yours over Romero seems to go pretty deep. Even in that thread, the entire discussion began with an attack on him as "slightly better than ordinary."

[Avenger]

yeah, i have an obsession. You had a 10 page argument only a couple of days ago with a dozen different posters telling them how Romero was gonna be fine and to ignore the warning signs because the team knows better.

[Randle McMurphy]

yeah, i have an obsession.

You do. The fact that you would go two years into the past to find a thread with that contract discussion (which you, of course, instigated with a troll attempt and attack on Romero) primarily to boast reflects that much.

You had a 10 page argument with a dozen different posters telling them how Romero was gonna be fine and to ignore the warning signs because the team knows better.

Straw man. Never said Romero would be fine at any point in that thread. In fact, I expressed many times my belief that he probably wouldn't be and my doubt that he would be able to find his way back so easily. What I said was that if Romero started the season with the team over Happ, we (as fans) were in no position to be saying they were wrong to do so (and it would go the same for Happ starting over Romero). They have far more information to go on than we do, particularly in spring training. And I stand by that position completely.

[Santoki]

Avenger, take solace that you were dead on about Romero. I wish you weren't, but you were.

[Schad]

I have no interest in rehashing that debate, because it's not really germane to what I was saying. The point is that the salary curve in baseball is so skewed that bitching about Romero getting injured and not earning his money is silly, given that the market value for his seasons to date exceeds the total value of the contract...he 'earned' most of the money on that contract before it even started.

[Santoki]

I have no interest in rehashing that debate, because it's not really germane to what I was saying. The point is that the salary curve in baseball is so skewed that bitching about Romero getting injured and not earning his money is silly, given that the market value for his seasons to date exceeds the total value of the contract...he 'earned' most of the money on that contract before it even started.

You win some, you lose some. Sure, it's cliche but that's how AA structures a lot of his contracts. He won with Bautista and may with Edwin and lost with guys like Yunel and Ricky.

[Randle McMurphy]

I have no interest in rehashing that debate, because it's not really germane to what I was saying. The point is that the salary curve in baseball is so skewed that bitching about Romero getting injured and not earning his money is silly, given that the market value for his seasons to date exceeds the total value of the contract...he 'earned' most of the money on that contract before it even started.

You win some, you lose some. Sure, it's cliche but that's how AA structures a lot of his contracts. He won with Bautista and may with Edwin and lost with guys like Yunel and Ricky.

Even when he couldn't get the ball out of the infield for much of the season, Yunel was still worth what they paid him last year by virtue of his defense. That's how good that contract was. Still sucks that we let him go to be honest (although it would have been difficult trying to convince either Reyes or him to move to 2B) and it especially sucks that the Rays have him now at such a bargain price.

As for Ricky, there's still some years left on that one. It remains to be seen where his career goes from here.

[flatjacket1]

I have no interest in rehashing that debate, because it's not really germane to what I was saying. The point is that the salary curve in baseball is so skewed that bitching about Romero getting injured and not earning his money is silly, given that the market value for his seasons to date exceeds the total value of the contract...he 'earned' most of the money on that contract before it even started.

You win some, you lose some. Sure, it's cliche but that's how AA structures a lot of his contracts. He won with Bautista and may with Edwin and lost with guys like Yunel and Ricky.

Even when he couldn't get the ball out of the infield for much of the season, Yunel was still worth what they paid him last year by virtue of his defense. That's how good that contract was. Still sucks that we let him go to be honest (although it would have been difficult trying to convince either Reyes or him to move to 2B) and it especially sucks that the Rays have him now at such a bargain price.

As for Ricky, there's still some years left on that one. It remains to be seen where his career goes from here.

I agree. We signed Edwin to a deal after 3 months of success, with everything before that showing he had flashes of power and was very streaky. We signed Bautista after a single season of success, and experts fought both sides of the argument on whether or not it was worth it. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but considering how much we paid for at the time for the players, it was either fair or an overpay.

72% of fans said that Bautista did not warrant that type of money at the time of the extension, according to a poll on MLBTR.

Look at Rasmus this season. He batted around .260/.330/.500 before the AS break, and was on pace for 35 HR's. We could of EASILY handed him an Edwin type extension (as those numbers are comparable when you consider positional value and defense) and fans would have thought the exact same at the time as we did with Edwin. Imagine having Rasmus on the books for like 9M next season. That would sure throw a wrench in things.

Romero was extended as a 25 year old starting pitcher, with a 3.5 ERA on the season in 23 starts. He finished the year with 210 innings. We handed him as much money as Edwin, but got 2 additional years.

Try and tell me our 29 year old DH with 3 months of success deserves more money than a 25 year old starting pitcher showing vast improvements from the previous season, on pace to finish the season with 210 innings and a 3.5 ERA. Romero was a steal of a contract. Also, Colby would have gotten a similar dollar amount as Edwin had we decided to extend him over the AS break last season.

It's also worth noting people on this board were arguing that Lawrie should be extended for a 10 year deal ranging between 50-100M dollars. How would of that looked now?

My point isn't to extend everybody, nor to extend nobody, but rather pay a player what they are worth and see what happens. No contract contains no risk, there is a chance that Edwin could be in the minors from the AS break until the end of his contract. Romero did provide ample value over his first few years, and he took security over waiting out a bigger contract. Had he signed in the 2012 offseason (after 2011 season) he could of easily commanded 15M+ a year.

Romero, Escobar were better contracts than Bautista, Edwin if you don't use hindsight. Obviously the latter 2 worked out a lot better, but Romero and Escobar were much more team friendly at the time. Sure you can constantly judge based on hindsight, but I think it's unfair. We sign a lot of extensions hoping for the best, but it is unrealistic to think all will pan out.

[changes]

The right move.