Around the nba part 6

[earthmansurfer]

On that list, I'd probably take Conley and Dragic over Lin but that's it. His contract isn't terrible at 8.3 per...at that 15 milli rate the Knicks woulda been stuck with, it's a lot uglier. I don't think Lin is a trade asset though, thanks to the new CBA...His contract isn't long enough to think upside in a deal and his numbers don't warrant the pay yet. They will in due time...just not yet.

Dragic though...that kid is a WAY better than I thought he was. I've watched a solid number of Suns games thanks to betting and the kid is extremely talented.

Dragic just doesn't seem to make his teams better. Lin does, even whan he isn't putting up great NY like stats. He played good minutes against the Clips with no Harden and they won handedly. Coincidence?

If Melo jets when Lins contract is up, I wouldn't mind us signing him and building a ball movement type team around him. Bring in Pops to be the coach

Go back to bed man.

Do you work for the govt? Your well thought out response makes one wonder.

Dragic didn't improve Houston either.

Get out of bed and smell the coffee

[JBreezeNY]

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/ ... n-reaching

Only four NBA players average more assists, rebounds, points and steals than Goran Dragic this season, and not a single NBA player has had a night better than 31-12-9 that Dragic put up last night since last season.

CP3, Parker, Westbrook, Irving, Curry, Deron, Jrue, Lawson, Dragic, Rubio. Top 10 PG's in the NBA in that order. Easily.

yeah dragic is having an underrated season because that pheonix team is so awful. i've always hada soft spot for the kid dating back to that epic performance he had against the spurs during his first stint with the suns.

Love this article, good thread fam. Personally I've wanted Lin on this team since around 2010 after he left Harvard, thought he could be a SOLID sixth man for us but Dragic? Oh boy he sealed the deal for me after that showing in the playoffs against the Spurs.

Once again this is a nice little write-up to see the comparisons between two.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&p=31923151

Because he is? (Not much better though)

I like Lin but Dragic has proven himself better & we even got an extra added bonus of seeing Dragic perform well in the playoffs.

Lin hasn't even played one playoff game.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&p=32633037

Love me some Dragic.

[j4remi]

Dragic's been putting up really impressive numbers since about the halfway point (ASB) last season...He's never gotten the fan fare but he's a legit problem.

[K_ick_God]

No, it'd be $8.3M per on a trade. He's definitely a trade asset.

Again, people need to take the long view and stop monitoring people's value game to game. He has had a bunch of quiet games very recently but he's had a really good second half and is a pure PG who can score.

How is he an asset @ $8.3M? How can he be an asset when Dragic gets paid less? Lin is way overpaid for his production.

Dragic gets $800K less per year. No big deal. Lin is better. He's had better numbers this year and that's with playing with Harden. Given free rein in Phoenix, he'd be doing a lot better than Dragic has. Dragic has had a mediocre season.

[kNicksGmen]

playing with harden allows lin to not be the main focus of the defense. as far as stats he would likely be putting up more assists and points if he was in dragic situation but his efficiency would be lower. they're still very comparable players imo

[K_ick_God]

8/13, 21 points, 9 assists, 3 boards and 1 steal? Against an elite Indiana defense? Remarkable. 102-101, come on PHX!

Well it's neither the time nor place. But Dragic is having a good game -- he hasn't had a particularly good season.

Go Phoenix.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/ ... n-reaching

Only four NBA players average more assists, rebounds, points and steals than Goran Dragic this season, and not a single NBA player has had a night better than 31-12-9 that Dragic put up last night since last season.

CP3, Parker, Westbrook, Irving, Curry, Deron, Jrue, Lawson, Dragic, Rubio. Top 10 PG's in the NBA in that order. Easily.

Rasho putting forth his misleading slant on stats again. Same guy who thinks Brook Lopez is useless even when he puts up 27 points on high shooting.

Lin versus Dragic:

- Dragic 3.1 rebounds per game | Lin 3.0 rebounds per game. That's tight but Dragic gets the nod!

- Dragic 7.2 assists per game | Dragic 6.0 assists per game. Dragic is the only guy who gets any assists on that team -- by far their leader; Lin leads the Rockets but is competing with ballhanding/passing with Harden and Parsons. Crowded field in Houston; not so in Phoenix. Skewed and they're still close.

- Lin 12.9 points per game | Dragic 14.5 points per game. Dragic has not been able to handle being a go-to-guy ... ever. Especially not this year. Lin ... Linsanity is pretty much 'nuff said. This is not statistically provable but given that Lin has Harden leading the way and Parsons ahead of him too (and also getting the ball a ton from McHale), can anyone with a straight face say that Lin would not be averaging 14.5 PPG if he was in Phoenix? You can doubt it but you'd be wrong. Lin would be at 16-18 PPG easily. He'd be the same in NY too if he was given minutes and rein. Linsanity shows his track record. There has never been Goransanity. Last night was it I guess. One and done.

- Lin has higher percentages in FG%, 3FG%, FT%.

- Lin averages more steals at 1.8 to 1.6, and averages more blocks per game.

- And all of the above is with Dragic averaging more minutes per game, 33.1 to Lin's 31.9

Neither one is having a great year but Lin clearly better than Dragic and his second half is more clearly better than Dragic's second half (Dragic had a fast start; Lin a slow start). Even by Rasho's proposed metric of 'Guys who have the most points, rebounds, assists, steals,' Lin would be right there with Dragic if not ahead (he misleadingly cut out the rest of his list); particularly if you account for minutes played which ummm matters; even more particularly if you account for the fact that Lin has a far more crowded field of players on his roster and a coach who makes sure that he's subordinate. What's holding Dragic back in Phoenix? JR Smith would average 22+ PPG on that team.

So his own definition nullifies his argument. But even more so, his definition kind of misses the point. They can both put a lot of stuff on the board and that's a strength of theirs but Lin ... is ... better. Dragic's peak stretch has never approached Linsanity. He's a glorified backup. Talent is there but not the other stuff you need to be a really good starter. (See Darko Milicic who I'm sure our European friend loved too. That's why he dismisses Gallo sucking in the playoffs as 'just a bad shooting performance' or whatever.)

Rasho clearly one of those guys who does not adjust his thinking based on the numbers and the reality (I like both guys but I'm sure BNO would still tell you that Stephen Curry sucks, a glorified Boobie Gibson, etc.). Dragic could get benched at 9 PPG and 4 APG ... very possible if not for his big contract ... and he'd still give you some skewed numbers.

Me? If Lin ends up sucking, I'll say so. Dragic has had an ... underwhelming ... season, at best. Sorry. Lin hasn't had a great season either but there are real reasons for it that I've outlined above. Dragic has that whole team and the whole backcourt to himself and he's been pretty weak.

Oh and Lin has won games since being in the league. Goran? No. He loses. And the Rockets are winning the year he left and Lin came in. Just sayin'.

[K_ick_God]

Brook Lopez 27, 7, 4 blocks (11-16 from the field).

But he's not a real center and he's no Gallo.

[K_ick_God]

HakeemKnicks ... it's totally the opposite of what you're saying with all due respect. He's having a bad season considering how thin that roster is. Tony Campbell once was among the leaders in league scoring on the expansion Timberwolves. I think it was Minnesota -- it was one of the expansion teams.

And leading your team to the lottery is never underrated anyway.

With him being their only ballhandler and scorer in the backcourt, he's done little.

[NYKMentality85]

Dragic gets $800K less per year. No big deal. Lin is better. He's had better numbers this year and that's with playing with Harden. Given free rein in Phoenix, he'd be doing a lot better than Dragic has. Dragic has had a mediocre season.

It's the other way around KD. Teammates make each other stronger and if Goran had an elite scorer such as Harden? His production would become even stronger. You take Harden off Houston and Lin not only falls flat on his face but Houston comes nowhere close to making the postseason. Lin/Houston is only 1-2 without Harden this season.

And come on KD, Lin has not had better numbers this year when compared to Goran Dragić.

Goran: 14.5 points, FG% of .439%, 7.2 assists, 3.1 boards, 1.6 steals and 2.6 turnovers per game. Player Efficiency Rating of 17.33. Value Added of 218.9 (13th amongst PG's). Estimated Wins Added of 7.3. Usage Rate of 22.1. Turnover Rate of 11.3 (lower the better). Assist Ratio of 30.8 (higher the better). True Shooting Percentage of .535. 15 Double-Doubles.

J.Lin: 12.9 points, FG% of .442%, 6.0 assists, 3.0 boards, 1.8 steals and 2.9 turnovers per game. Player Efficiency Rating of 14.82. Value Added of 132.7 (30th amongst PG's). Estimated Wins Added of 4.4. Usage Rate of 20.3. Turnover Rate of 14.0 (lower the better). Assist Ratio of 28.5 (higher the better). True Shooting Percentage of .536. 7 Double-Doubles.

As you can see, in no way shape or form does Jeremy Lin have better numbers when compared to Goran Dragić. It's actually the complete opposite in favor of Dragić.

[K_ick_God]

Dragic gets $800K less per year. No big deal. Lin is better. He's had better numbers this year and that's with playing with Harden. Given free rein in Phoenix, he'd be doing a lot better than Dragic has. Dragic has had a mediocre season.

It's the other way around KD. Teammates make each other stronger and if Goran had an elite scorer such as Harden? His production would become even stronger. You take Harden off Houston and Lin not only falls flat on his face but Houston comes nowhere close to making the postseason. Lin/Houston is only 1-2 without Harden this season.

And come on KD, Lin has not had better numbers this year when compared to Goran Dragić.

Goran: 14.5 points, FG% of .439%, 7.2 assists, 3.1 boards, 1.6 steals and 2.6 turnovers per game. Player Efficiency Rating of 17.33. Value Added of 218.9 (13th amongst PG's). Estimated Wins Added of 7.3. Usage Rate of 22.1. Turnover Rate of 11.3 (lower the better). Assist Ratio of 30.8 (higher the better). True Shooting Percentage of .535.

J.Lin: 12.9 points, FG% of .442%, 6.0 assists, 3.0 boards, 1.8 steals and 2.9 turnovers per game. Player Efficiency Rating of 14.82. Value Added of 132.7 (30th amongst PG's). Estimated Wins Added of 4.4. Usage Rate of 20.3. Turnover Rate of 14.0 (lower the better). Assist Ratio of 28.5 (higher the better). True Shooting Percentage of .536.

As you can see, in no way shape or form does Jeremy Lin have better numbers when compared to Goran Dragić. It's actually the complete opposite in favor of Dragić.

BS. Tell that to Tony Campbell. History says guys can put up huge numbers on bad teams.

[kNicksGmen]

being the only scorer and ballhandler in the backcourt should be used to his defense not against him. the defense keys in on him as the number 1 guy. like you said lin plays with harden, parsons, etc. that takes pressure off him and makes his job easier.

[NYKMentality85]

Dragic gets $800K less per year. No big deal. Lin is better. He's had better numbers this year and that's with playing with Harden. Given free rein in Phoenix, he'd be doing a lot better than Dragic has. Dragic has had a mediocre season.

It's the other way around KD. Teammates make each other stronger and if Goran had an elite scorer such as Harden? His production would become even stronger. You take Harden off Houston and Lin not only falls flat on his face but Houston comes nowhere close to making the postseason. Lin/Houston is only 1-2 without Harden this season.

And come on KD, Lin has not had better numbers this year when compared to Goran Dragić.

Goran: 14.5 points, FG% of .439%, 7.2 assists, 3.1 boards, 1.6 steals and 2.6 turnovers per game. Player Efficiency Rating of 17.33. Value Added of 218.9 (13th amongst PG's). Estimated Wins Added of 7.3. Usage Rate of 22.1. Turnover Rate of 11.3 (lower the better). Assist Ratio of 30.8 (higher the better). True Shooting Percentage of .535.

J.Lin: 12.9 points, FG% of .442%, 6.0 assists, 3.0 boards, 1.8 steals and 2.9 turnovers per game. Player Efficiency Rating of 14.82. Value Added of 132.7 (30th amongst PG's). Estimated Wins Added of 4.4. Usage Rate of 20.3. Turnover Rate of 14.0 (lower the better). Assist Ratio of 28.5 (higher the better). True Shooting Percentage of .536.

As you can see, in no way shape or form does Jeremy Lin have better numbers when compared to Goran Dragić. It's actually the complete opposite in favor of Dragić.

BS. Tell that to Tony Campbell. History says guys can put up huge numbers on bad teams.

I'm just saying KD. I enjoy talking basketball amongst you and others but you stated Lin's numbers are better than Goran's which couldn't be further from the truth. Goran has Lin beat every which way despite being the Suns best player. Defense can hone in on Goran while opposing defense have to watch out for Harden but yet Goran still puts up better numbers. Fans once stated Lee only puts up good numbers on bad teams in NY but yet, still putting up even better numbers with Golden State. Also, Lin and Goran have pretty much an identical usage rate so throw the excuse of Goran having "more chances to make plays" out the window.

[K_ick_God]

Leaders on the worst teams:

Cleveland: Kyrie Irving 23 PPG, Dion Waiters 14.7 PPG (Sideshow Bob 14.1 PPG)
Charlotte: Kemba Walker 18.7 PPG, Gerald Henderson 15.2 PPG (Ramon Sessions 14.4 PPG)
Minnesota: Kevin Love 18.3 PPG, Nikola Pekovic 15.8 PPG
New Orleans: Eric Gordon 16.8 PPG, Ryan Anderson 16.5 PPG
Orlando: Aaron Afflalo 16.5 PPG, Tobias Harris 16.3 PPG
Detroit: Greg Monroe 15.7 PPG (Brandon Knight 13.5 PPG)
Phoenix: Dragic 14.5 PPG

Dragic dead last. And worse than ALL BUT ONE of the bad teams' SECOND-best scorers.

Have a good rest of the weekend guys.

[ctorres]

Leaders on the worst teams:

Cleveland: Kyrie Irving 23 PPG, Dion Waiters 14.7 PPG (Sideshow Bob 14.1 PPG)
Charlotte: Kemba Walker 18.7 PPG, Gerald Henderson 15.2 PPG (Ramon Sessions 14.4 PPG)
Minnesota: Kevin Love 18.3 PPG, Nikola Pekovic 15.8 PPG
New Orleans: Eric Gordon 16.8 PPG, Ryan Anderson 16.5 PPG
Orlando: Aaron Afflalo 16.5 PPG, Tobias Harris 16.3 PPG
Detroit: Greg Monroe 15.7 PPG (Brandon Knight 13.5 PPG)
Phoenix: Dragic 14.5 PPG

Dragic dead last. And worse than ALL BUT ONE of the bad teams' SECOND-best scorer.

Have a good rest of the weekend guys.

Phoenix Suns are absolute without a doubt the least talented team in the entire NBA by far. I'm not surprised Dragic is the lowest leading scorer on a team considering how hard it has to be for him to score with such a sorry excuse for teammates. The Suns' roster is flat out disgusting.

[DMass]

Wade & LeBron sitting out the game at San Antonio tonight apparently.

Of course - they'll be back on Tuesday.

[JBreezeNY]

Leaders on the worst teams:

Cleveland: Kyrie Irving 23 PPG, Dion Waiters 14.7 PPG (Sideshow Bob 14.1 PPG)
Charlotte: Kemba Walker 18.7 PPG, Gerald Henderson 15.2 PPG (Ramon Sessions 14.4 PPG)
Minnesota: Kevin Love 18.3 PPG, Nikola Pekovic 15.8 PPG
New Orleans: Eric Gordon 16.8 PPG, Ryan Anderson 16.5 PPG
Orlando: Aaron Afflalo 16.5 PPG, Tobias Harris 16.3 PPG
Detroit: Greg Monroe 15.7 PPG (Brandon Knight 13.5 PPG)
Phoenix: Dragic 14.5 PPG

Dragic dead last. And worse than ALL BUT ONE of the bad teams' SECOND-best scorers.

Have a good rest of the weekend guys.

One quick look at the Suns players as well as their PPG and your argument can be tossed out the window.

[j4remi]

Leaders on the worst teams:

Cleveland: Kyrie Irving 23 PPG, Dion Waiters 14.7 PPG (Sideshow Bob 14.1 PPG)
Charlotte: Kemba Walker 18.7 PPG, Gerald Henderson 15.2 PPG (Ramon Sessions 14.4 PPG)
Minnesota: Kevin Love 18.3 PPG, Nikola Pekovic 15.8 PPG
New Orleans: Eric Gordon 16.8 PPG, Ryan Anderson 16.5 PPG
Orlando: Aaron Afflalo 16.5 PPG, Tobias Harris 16.3 PPG
Detroit: Greg Monroe 15.7 PPG (Brandon Knight 13.5 PPG)
Phoenix: Dragic 14.5 PPG

Dragic dead last. And worse than ALL BUT ONE of the bad teams' SECOND-best scorers.

Have a good rest of the weekend guys.

One quick look at the Suns players as well as their PPG and your argument can be tossed out the window.

Cherry picking stats to prop up Lin again...it's gotten bad.

[Rasho Brezec]

I didn't slant any stats, everything is taken from that article I posted.

You can't make any serious basketball analysis or a comparison between two players posting just basic stats, that's why I always look at advanced stats, and so do all of the NBA front offices. And by that, Dragic is clearly having a better season than Lin.

There is no doubt in my mind Lin's basic stats would go up on that godawful Phoenix teams, but his efficiency numbers would go down and his turnovers would skyrocket.

There's also no doubt in my mind Dragic would never get benched for Toney Douglas or Patrick Beverley if he was still with the Rockets.

Also, this myth of Harden having an impact on Lin's play is silly and would actually speak against Lin if he couldn't handle playing with a better player than him.

Lin's season avg: 12.9 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.9 tpg, 1.8 spg, .442 FG%, .333 3P%

Lin's avg with Harden out or playing less than 20 min: 20.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 5.0 apg, 3.8 tpg, 1.0 spg, .413 FG%, .500 3P%

Obviously those numbers are not representative because it's a 4 game sample size and he had that one high scoring game against the Spurs, but it clearly shows Harden is not slowing him whatsoever.

[j4remi]

I didn't slant any stats, everything is taken from that article I posted.

You can't make any serious basketball analysis or a comparison between two players posting just basic stats, that's why I always look at advanced stats, and so do all of the NBA front offices. And by that, Dragic is clearly having a better season than Lin.

There is no doubt in my mind Lin's basic stats would go up on that godawful Phoenix teams, but his efficiency numbers would go down and his turnovers would skyrocket.

There's also no doubt in my mind Dragic would never get benched for Toney Douglas or Patrick Beverley if he was still with the Rockets.

Also, this myth of Harden having an impact on Lin's play is silly and would actually speak against Lin if he couldn't handle playing with a better player than him.

Lin's season avg: 12.9 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.9 tpg, 1.8 spg, .442 FG%, .333 3P%

Lin's avg with Harden out or playing less than 20 min: 20.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 5.0 apg, 3.8 tpg, 1.0 spg, .413 FG%, .500 3P%

Obviously those numbers are not representative because it's a 4 game sample size and he had that one high scoring game against the Spurs, but it clearly shows Harden is not slowing him whatsoever.

I'm with you...besides that Harden doesn't have an impact on Lin. I think Harden does hurt Lin a bit, because Lin needs to dominate the ball to be at his best. That said, I think Harden makes the Rockets far better as the ball dominant guard than they would be if Lin was given free rein.

[Rasho Brezec]

Harden makes Lin a worse scorer and a better point guard.