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Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0

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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#761 » by DCZards » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:24 pm

CCJ, I don't disagree that Wall looked very tradeable less than a month ago. Although, I thought and said then, as I do now, that trading him would have been a mistake.

However, I take issue with your apparent overlooking of the fact that Wall's season began in mid-January. And that his injury essentially stopped him from running, jumping and competing for almost 4 months. I think you underestimate (or intentionally downplay) just how much of an impact that layoff had.

I also don't buy this idea that John "flipped a switch" and overnight went from average to verging on greatness. The improvement we've seen in John's play the last month is something that a few of us on this board saw starting to happen even when he was struggling. A lot of it has to do with Wall's increasingly better health and conditioning.

Yes, Wall was not been named an all-star like his peers Holiday and Irving. But had he participated in training camp--and started his season in late October rather than mid-January--John might very well had made the all-star team.

Again, to act as if John's has had a full "two and one half years" to prove himself is not only untrue it's unfair. (I'd also suggest that you look at how well Wall and the Zards played at the end of last season after the dumping of a few knuckleheads :) and the pickup of Nene.)

Finally, while there may very well be PGs in this draft who MIGHT be destined for stardom. Wall IS destined for stardom, IMO.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#762 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:28 pm

Trading Wall would have been a mistake and I would have been very wrong. I never thought I'd see him playing this well.

DCZ, Wall's health and conditioning might be contributing to his improvement but his play is radically better. I think a lot more than health and conditioning are in play. I think media criticism got his attention. Something lit sufficient fire for this change.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#763 » by hands11 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:08 am

DCZards wrote:CCJ, I don't disagree that Wall looked very tradeable less than a month ago. Although, I thought and said then, as I do now, that trading him would have been a mistake.

However, I take issue with your apparent overlooking of the fact that Wall's season began in mid-January. And that his injury essentially stopped him from running, jumping and competing for almost 4 months. I think you underestimate (or intentionally downplay) just how much of an impact that layoff had.

I also don't buy this idea that John "flipped a switch" and overnight went from average to verging on greatness. The improvement we've seen in John's play the last month is something that a few of us on this board saw starting to happen even when he was struggling. A lot of it has to do with Wall's increasingly better health and conditioning.

Yes, Wall was not been named an all-star like his peers Holiday and Irving. But had he participated in training camp--and started his season in late October rather than mid-January--John might very well had made the all-star team.

Again, to act as if John's has had a full "two and one half years" to prove himself is not only untrue it's unfair. (I'd also suggest that you look at how well Wall and the Zards played at the end of last season after the dumping of a few knuckleheads :) and the pickup of Nene.)

Finally, while there may very well be PGs in this draft who MIGHT be destined for stardom. Wall IS destined for stardom, IMO.


Trading him for what? To call it a mistake you have to have something on the other side of the equation.

Hey, I have been posting tones of Wall stats showing he is getting better. I have been pumped about it. But lets not get carried away. Small sample size. He still has tones to prove.

As for a trade. What am I getting in return ? Two high firsts and a player ? Can't just a trade Wall unless we know for what.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#764 » by Dat2U » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:58 am

hands11 wrote:Not hating on Wall but just as a reminder,

11-28 FG with 5 PF and 4 TO and only 2 assists is not very efficient nor is it winning basketball. They lost to ORL.

And before anyone says his AST were low because he had no one to pass it to, he had 12 the game before with even less players to pass it to and against OKC ... one of the best teams in the league and in that game he was 3-18

Now I love all the FTA and Wall has had some monster games this month. but I wouldn't count either of these last two games in that group. They fall more into a category of .. mixed bag. Some things were impressive, some kind of sunk.

Hell, as good as some of his numbers looked against ORL, Tobias was better and Beno Udrih had 9 assists and 1 TO


It wasn't his 47 pt masterpiece but 35 pts on 28 shots is nothing to sneeze at. Since when is 35 pts & 9 rebs considered a "mixed bag" type of performance?

To be honest it was a bit Kobe-like but I had absolutely no problem with his aggressiveness. I'm not really going to be overly picky, I just want to enjoy the ride he's on right now.

http://broomonthewarpath.sportsblog.com ... _wall.html

He's been playing at an MVP level for an entire month. This is beyond a hot stretch of play. This looks really legit. I believe it takes 20 games to get a legit sample size before drawing any real conclusions so I guess we could still see some regression to the mean and it's definitely hard to just suddenly put him in the LeBron, Durant & Paul stratosphere but it feels so good to see him actually becoming the player we'd hope he'd become. :D
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#765 » by Knighthonor » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:13 am

did EG tell Wall to no longer tank to attract FA next season during the tank season for Wiggins/Parker? clever guy!!
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#766 » by montestewart » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:39 pm

Knighthonor wrote:did EG tell Wall to no longer tank to attract FA next season during the tank season for Wiggins/Parker? clever guy!!

YES!!!! & +1!!!!
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#767 » by sfam » Mon Apr 1, 2013 2:08 am

DCZards wrote:CCJ, I don't disagree that Wall looked very tradeable less than a month ago. Although, I thought and said then, as I do now, that trading him would have been a mistake.

However, I take issue with your apparent overlooking of the fact that Wall's season began in mid-January. And that his injury essentially stopped him from running, jumping and competing for almost 4 months. I think you underestimate (or intentionally downplay) just how much of an impact that layoff had.

I also don't buy this idea that John "flipped a switch" and overnight went from average to verging on greatness. The improvement we've seen in John's play the last month is something that a few of us on this board saw starting to happen even when he was struggling. A lot of it has to do with Wall's increasingly better health and conditioning.

Yes, Wall was not been named an all-star like his peers Holiday and Irving. But had he participated in training camp--and started his season in late October rather than mid-January--John might very well had made the all-star team.

Again, to act as if John's has had a full "two and one half years" to prove himself is not only untrue it's unfair. (I'd also suggest that you look at how well Wall and the Zards played at the end of last season after the dumping of a few knuckleheads :) and the pickup of Nene.)

Finally, while there may very well be PGs in this draft who MIGHT be destined for stardom. Wall IS destined for stardom, IMO.


This is where I was at. Even before Wall's run, he had showed enough to at least have all star potential. He just needed a consistent shot, which I thought would improve his decision making. More to the point, its pretty rare to find an All Star, especially outside of the top few picks, which is what people were debating. Just on a simple risk assessment, it seems to me the chances of getting another all star capable player were lots lower than the chances that Wall would turn it around. Thankfully he's done so faster than we imagined.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#768 » by Brenice » Mon Apr 1, 2013 11:57 am

I don't understand how any knowledgable basketball fan would expect Wall to be playing to unrealistic levels after giving the NBA a 4 or 5 month head start on not just practicing on his own, but competition, conditioning, and everything else that goes with him being shut down to heal.

I don't think the media had anything to do with his improved play. The Wizards have been a circus since he was drafted, until they last blew the team up getting rid of the clowns (Nick, JaVale, and Blatche). I'll continue to give Wall the benefit of doubt. People were ALMOST acting as if he was doing a Blatche on the Wizards. Walls improved play is directly related to his and not in order:

1) working on his game (not just including shooting)
2) practice against the Olympic team
3) smarter players who compete
4) regaining conditioning and form after the injury-related shutdown
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#769 » by nate33 » Mon Apr 1, 2013 1:09 pm

I was just playing around at basketballreference.com, looking at John Wall's on/off numbers.

With Wall on the floor, the Wizards have an ORtg of 104.5, they have a 97.1 ORtg without him. Most of the improvement is in eFG%. The team posts an eFG% of .505 with Wall versus a .458 without him. This is a dramatic improvement. Interestingly, TOV% is marginally lower with Wall on the court. Wall may be turnover prone, but the team is still better off with him dominating the ball rather than playing hot potato with the ball when he's not on the court.

Digging deeper into the numbers at nbawowy, I see that the Wizards shoot .423 from 3P range when Wall is on the court, and .336 without him, a ridiculous improvement. That's the skip pass at work.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#770 » by tontoz » Mon Apr 1, 2013 1:11 pm

nate33 wrote:I was just playing around at basketballreference.com, looking at John Wall's on/off numbers.

With Wall on the floor, the Wizards have an ORtg of 104.5, they have a 97.1 ORtg without him. Most of the improvement is in eFG%. The team posts an eFG% of .505 with Wall versus a .458 without him. This is a dramatic improvement. Interestingly, TOV% is marginally lower with Wall on the court. Wall may be turnover prone, but the team is still better off with him dominating the ball rather than playing hot potato with the ball when he's not on the court.

Digging deeper into the numbers at nbawowy, I see that the Wizards shoot .423 from 3P range when Wall is on the court, and .336 without him, a ridiculous improvement. That's the skip pass at work.



Are those w/o Wall numbers including the games before he came back?
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#771 » by nate33 » Mon Apr 1, 2013 1:29 pm

tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:I was just playing around at basketballreference.com, looking at John Wall's on/off numbers.

With Wall on the floor, the Wizards have an ORtg of 104.5, they have a 97.1 ORtg without him. Most of the improvement is in eFG%. The team posts an eFG% of .505 with Wall versus a .458 without him. This is a dramatic improvement. Interestingly, TOV% is marginally lower with Wall on the court. Wall may be turnover prone, but the team is still better off with him dominating the ball rather than playing hot potato with the ball when he's not on the court.

Digging deeper into the numbers at nbawowy, I see that the Wizards shoot .423 from 3P range when Wall is on the court, and .336 without him, a ridiculous improvement. That's the skip pass at work.



Are those w/o Wall numbers including the games before he came back?

Yes. Since January 12th, the "Without Wall" numbers are slightly better, but there's still a significant difference with Wall on the court. Without Wall since January 12th, our ORtg is 100.8, our eFG% is .442 and our 3P% is .371. Our turnovers continue to be worse without Wall.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#772 » by fishercob » Mon Apr 1, 2013 1:45 pm

nate33 wrote:I was just playing around at basketballreference.com, looking at John Wall's on/off numbers.

With Wall on the floor, the Wizards have an ORtg of 104.5, they have a 97.1 ORtg without him. Most of the improvement is in eFG%. The team posts an eFG% of .505 with Wall versus a .458 without him. This is a dramatic improvement. Interestingly, TOV% is marginally lower with Wall on the court. Wall may be turnover prone, but the team is still better off with him dominating the ball rather than playing hot potato with the ball when he's not on the court.

Digging deeper into the numbers at nbawowy, I see that the Wizards shoot .423 from 3P range when Wall is on the court, and .336 without him, a ridiculous improvement. That's the skip pass at work.


104.5 would make us the 20th best offense in the league.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#773 » by theboomking » Mon Apr 1, 2013 1:46 pm

I already googled this, question, and am not being lazy. Do you guys know any site that lists PER by month? I was curious to see how Wall's PER looked in March.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#774 » by nate33 » Mon Apr 1, 2013 2:04 pm

theboomking wrote:I already googled this, question, and am not being lazy. Do you guys know any site that lists PER by month? I was curious to see how Wall's PER looked in March.

Wall is posting a PER of 25.82 this month.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#775 » by nate33 » Mon Apr 1, 2013 2:11 pm

fishercob wrote:
nate33 wrote:I was just playing around at basketballreference.com, looking at John Wall's on/off numbers.

With Wall on the floor, the Wizards have an ORtg of 104.5, they have a 97.1 ORtg without him. Most of the improvement is in eFG%. The team posts an eFG% of .505 with Wall versus a .458 without him. This is a dramatic improvement. Interestingly, TOV% is marginally lower with Wall on the court. Wall may be turnover prone, but the team is still better off with him dominating the ball rather than playing hot potato with the ball when he's not on the court.

Digging deeper into the numbers at nbawowy, I see that the Wizards shoot .423 from 3P range when Wall is on the court, and .336 without him, a ridiculous improvement. That's the skip pass at work.


104.5 would make us the 20th best offense in the league.

And that's basically with Nene either out or ailing. I'm hoping Nene comes back healthy next year and they make an effort to have him on the court when Wall sits. Your Ilyasova trade idea would really work well. Start Beal, Webster, Ilyasova and Okafor as the ideal offensive lineup alongside Wall. (Elite perimeter shooting and good offensive board work.) Then bring in Nene off the bench with the second unit and run the offense through him as he abuses backups. Preferably, utilize a backup PG with 3-point range to help keep the floor spread. Nene replaces Okafor in the crunch time lineup so we can run high pick and roll. (Nene will also make his free throws.) As an added bonus, this should keep Nene's total minutes down.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#776 » by GhostsOfGil » Mon Apr 1, 2013 2:13 pm

nate33 wrote:
theboomking wrote:I already googled this, question, and am not being lazy. Do you guys know any site that lists PER by month? I was curious to see how Wall's PER looked in March.

Wall is posting a PER of 25.82 this month.


:o
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#777 » by deneem4 » Mon Apr 1, 2013 2:14 pm

Wall=Level headed westbrook=d. Rose
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#778 » by fishercob » Mon Apr 1, 2013 2:30 pm

nate33 wrote:
fishercob wrote:
nate33 wrote:I was just playing around at basketballreference.com, looking at John Wall's on/off numbers.

With Wall on the floor, the Wizards have an ORtg of 104.5, they have a 97.1 ORtg without him. Most of the improvement is in eFG%. The team posts an eFG% of .505 with Wall versus a .458 without him. This is a dramatic improvement. Interestingly, TOV% is marginally lower with Wall on the court. Wall may be turnover prone, but the team is still better off with him dominating the ball rather than playing hot potato with the ball when he's not on the court.

Digging deeper into the numbers at nbawowy, I see that the Wizards shoot .423 from 3P range when Wall is on the court, and .336 without him, a ridiculous improvement. That's the skip pass at work.


104.5 would make us the 20th best offense in the league.

And that's basically with Nene either out or ailing. I'm hoping Nene comes back healthy next year and they make an effort to have him on the court when Wall sits. Your Ilyasova trade idea would really work well. Start Beal, Webster, Ilyasova and Okafor as the ideal offensive lineup alongside Wall. (Elite perimeter shooting and good offensive board work.) Then bring in Nene off the bench with the second unit and run the offense through him as he abuses backups. Preferably, utilize a backup PG with 3-point range to help keep the floor spread. Nene replaces Okafor in the crunch time lineup so we can run high pick and roll. (Nene will also make his free throws.) As an added bonus, this should keep Nene's total minutes down.


I love it when you talk dirty to me.

It would be great if we could somehow turn some combo of our two seconds, Vesely, Seraphin, Booker and Satoransky into a young defensive big who could replace Okafor in the long term (Dieng, Len, Lucas Nogueira).
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#779 » by nate33 » Mon Apr 1, 2013 3:22 pm

fishercob wrote:It would be great if we could somehow turn some combo of our two seconds, Vesely, Seraphin, Booker and Satoransky into a young defensive big who could replace Okafor in the long term (Dieng, Len, Lucas Nogueira).

Seraphin for a pick high enough to get Dieng/Withey would work. Keep Booker as defensive stopper against guys like Blake Griffin and Carmelo. Draft Burke/McCollum with our pick:

PG Wall/Burke
SG Beal/Burke/Webster
SF Webster/Ariza/Singleton
PF Ilyasova/Nene/Booker
C Okafor/Nene/Withey

That team still only takes as as far as Nene can hold up, but the rest of the rotation is rock solid, and there is a succession plan for Ariza and Okafor.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0 

Post#780 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Mon Apr 1, 2013 4:25 pm

nate33 wrote:
theboomking wrote:I already googled this, question, and am not being lazy. Do you guys know any site that lists PER by month? I was curious to see how Wall's PER looked in March.

Wall is posting a PER of 25.82 this month.


Thanks a lot, I also wanted to know the PER by month. Wall played at a superstar level for the month of March.

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