How many wins is Kobe Bryant worth?

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ardee
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Re: How many wins is Kobe Bryant worth? 

Post#21 » by ardee » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:35 pm

SideshowBob wrote:
RayBan-Sematra wrote:Here is a very rough draft.

1998 +0.0
1999 +1.0
2000 +2.5
2001 +4.0
2002 +2.5
2003 +3.0
2004 +2.0
2005 +3.5
2006 +5.0
2007 +5.0
2008 +6.0
2009 +6.0
2010 +4.5
2011 +1.0
2012 +1.5
2013 +2.5?


For someone known for being highly "anti-Kobe" that seems actually pretty reasonable. 2011-2013 look a little low, but other than that, it looks in line with what everyone else in this thread thinks so far.


2001 at 4.0 is absurd. That was one of his best ever seasons, very comparable with 2008 and 2009 if you ask me. Played as well as Jordan ever has through the first three rounds.
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Re: How many wins is Kobe Bryant worth? 

Post#22 » by Gregoire » Mon Apr 1, 2013 6:54 pm

SRS terms:
1997 -1.0
1998 +0.5
1999 +0.5
2000 +4.5
2001 +6.0
2002 +6.0
2003 +5.0
2004 +5.0
2005 +6.5
2006 +7.5
2007 +7.5
2008 +6.0
2009 +6.0
2010 +5.0
2011 +3.5
2012 +3.0
2013 +4.5
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Re: How many wins is Kobe Bryant worth? 

Post#23 » by JordansBulls » Mon Apr 1, 2013 7:50 pm

Kobe Bryant
1997 - +0.0 WS (41.0)
1998 - +1.0 WS (42.0)
1999 - +4.0 WS (45.0)
2000 - +8.0 WS (49.0)
2001 - +12.0 WS (53.0)
2002 - +11.5 WS (52.5)
2003 - +15.0 WS (56.0)
2004 - +13.0 WS (54.0)
2005 - +7.0 WS (48.0)
2006 - +17.5 WS (58.5)
2007 - +17.5 WS (58.5)
2008 - +18.0 WS (59.0)
2009 - +17.0 WS (58.0)
2010 - +13.0 WS (54.0)
2011 - +12.0 WS (53.0)
2012 - +9.0 WS (50.0)
2013 - +4.0 WS (45.0)
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Re: How many wins is Kobe Bryant worth? 

Post#24 » by GreenHat » Mon Apr 1, 2013 9:41 pm

SideshowBob wrote:Another point. Why is SRS typically looked at without adjusting for pace to begin with? Seems like it would make more sense for it to be consistently referenced as per100 than unadjusted, no?


I completely agree. Its much easier to get separation with more possessions.

I also never understood why people use simple addition/subtraction relative to league average for Ortg/Drtg.

Taken to an extreme isn't it much easier to be +5 compared to league average if league average is 150 rather than if it is 50?
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Re: How many wins is Kobe Bryant worth? 

Post#25 » by Narigo » Tue Apr 2, 2013 12:04 am

97 - 0.5 wins
98 - 2.0 wins
99 - 5.5 wins
00 - 12.0 wins
01 - 16.5 wins
02 - 14.0 wins
03 - 16.0 wins
04 - 11.5 wins
05 - 9.0 wins
06 - 18.0 wins
07- 17.5 wins
08- 18.0 wins
09- 17.5 wins
10- 15.5 wins
11- 14.0 wins
12- 10.0 wins
13- 11.0 wins
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Re: How many wins is Kobe Bryant worth? 

Post#26 » by ElGee » Tue Apr 2, 2013 1:34 am

GreenHat wrote:
SideshowBob wrote:Another point. Why is SRS typically looked at without adjusting for pace to begin with? Seems like it would make more sense for it to be consistently referenced as per100 than unadjusted, no?


I completely agree. Its much easier to get separation with more possessions.

I also never understood why people use simple addition/subtraction relative to league average for Ortg/Drtg.

Taken to an extreme isn't it much easier to be +5 compared to league average if league average is 150 rather than if it is 50?


These are good points -- GreenHat, I will personally look at standard deviations, but the reason why we don't see std or other measurements when publishing/discussing is because that level of detail is unnecessary -- it's like fretting over the errors in TS% or pos calculation. Although if you can demonstrate better predictive power...

Bob -- I'll actually defend not normalizing SRS to pace here: SRS is simply margin of victory (MOV) with a basic schedule adjustment. The usefulness there is that tells you how much a team wins by. This matters because the smaller their MOV, the more likely they are to lose close games. Introducing pace would change the utility of that metric across teams and across seasons. In short, a 9 SRS team at 90 pace is no more likely to win than a 9 SRS team at 120 pace*...which is the point of the stat.

*As far as I know!
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Re: How many wins is Kobe Bryant worth? 

Post#27 » by SideshowBob » Wed Apr 3, 2013 2:37 am

ElGee wrote:Bob -- I'll actually defend not normalizing SRS to pace here: SRS is simply margin of victory (MOV) with a basic schedule adjustment. The usefulness there is that tells you how much a team wins by. This matters because the smaller their MOV, the more likely they are to lose close games. Introducing pace would change the utility of that metric across teams and across seasons. In short, a 9 SRS team at 90 pace is no more likely to win than a 9 SRS team at 120 pace*...which is the point of the stat.

*As far as I know!


Cool. Makes sense if that holds.
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