Suns players struggle to accept losing atmosphere

[rsavaj]

Players will never purposefully lose games.
But organizations might engineer their rosters/rotations in order to put out a product that will lose games...that process usually goes hand in hand with "developing youth"

[Sunsdeuce]

my biggest frustration with these current front office bone heads is they don't know left from right. They came out shouting that this team is so much better then last years team. And they fully expected to go to the playoffs at the start.

They proclaimed that Beasley was the teams savior. He would lead the charge. Then as every other team knows he is a mental case. He couldn't lead a team out of a paper bag.

Then things don't go as well as they wanted and fire gentry to "change the culture". Then hire a coach that needed a good five years of assistant coaching experience before even thinking about being a head coach. but blanks convinced babby to hire him. Now that the team is worse, they decide to fully tank.

This is just a few things that frustrate me but it shows me the lack of knowledge and planning this FO has. They can't evaluate talent, either through the draft or free agent pick-ups. Even trades have bit them in the butt.

So now they are at the point where everything they supposivly planned has failed. And just know start the tank mode.

It took them 3 quarters of the year to realize that the team they put together is horrible even though they tried so hard to convince everyone it was gonna be a playoff team. Always going on 620 defending themselves. And saying fans don't know anything, consistently. Now that they are embarrassed by "their" team they put together they tank. I'm all for getting a high draft pick, god knows we need it. Tank mode should have been done front the start by the FO and it would not have been so obvious as it is now. If they had a half a brain they would have known this team would be a mess from the start. That is why I cannot trust this front office. They always think have a diamond when in fact it is cubic zirconia.

[bigfoot]

A visual definition of tanking

[bigfoot]

my biggest frustration with these current front office bone heads is they don't know left from right. They came out shouting that this team is so much better then last years team. And they fully expected to go to the playoffs at the start.

They proclaimed that Beasley was the teams savior. He would lead the charge. Then as every other team knows he is a mental case. He couldn't lead a team out of a paper bag.

Then things don't go as well as they wanted and fire gentry to "change the culture". Then hire a coach that needed a good five years of assistant coaching experience before even thinking about being a head coach. but blanks convinced babby to hire him. Now that the team is worse, they decide to fully tank.

This is just a few things that frustrate me but it shows me the lack of knowledge and planning this FO has. They can't evaluate talent, either through the draft or free agent pick-ups. Even trades have bit them in the butt.

So now they are at the point where everything they supposivly planned has failed. And just know start the tank mode.

It took them 3 quarters of the year to realize that the team they put together is horrible even though they tried so hard to convince everyone it was gonna be a playoff team. Always going on 620 defending themselves. And saying fans don't know anything, consistently. Now that they are embarrassed by "their" team they put together they tank. I'm all for getting a high draft pick, god knows we need it. Tank mode should have been done front the start by the FO and it would not have been so obvious as it is now. If they had a half a brain they would have known this team would be a mess from the start. That is why I cannot trust this front office. They always think have a diamond when in fact it is cubic zirconia.

So your saying the FO should have started the season by tanking. Basically you'd be happy with a 0-82 record to guarantee a 25% chance at winning the lottery. Forgetting that the Suns would earn the stigma as the worst team ever in the NBA which is currently held by the 1973 Philadelphia Sixers (9-73).

Dude you have less than the half a brain you claim the Suns FO has.

[rsavaj]

my biggest frustration with these current front office bone heads is they don't know left from right. They came out shouting that this team is so much better then last years team. And they fully expected to go to the playoffs at the start.

They proclaimed that Beasley was the teams savior. He would lead the charge. Then as every other team knows he is a mental case. He couldn't lead a team out of a paper bag.

Then things don't go as well as they wanted and fire gentry to "change the culture". Then hire a coach that needed a good five years of assistant coaching experience before even thinking about being a head coach. but blanks convinced babby to hire him. Now that the team is worse, they decide to fully tank.

This is just a few things that frustrate me but it shows me the lack of knowledge and planning this FO has. They can't evaluate talent, either through the draft or free agent pick-ups. Even trades have bit them in the butt.

So now they are at the point where everything they supposivly planned has failed. And just know start the tank mode.

It took them 3 quarters of the year to realize that the team they put together is horrible even though they tried so hard to convince everyone it was gonna be a playoff team. Always going on 620 defending themselves. And saying fans don't know anything, consistently. Now that they are embarrassed by "their" team they put together they tank. I'm all for getting a high draft pick, god knows we need it. Tank mode should have been done front the start by the FO and it would not have been so obvious as it is now. If they had a half a brain they would have known this team would be a mess from the start. That is why I cannot trust this front office. They always think have a diamond when in fact it is cubic zirconia.

So your saying the FO should have started the season by tanking. Basically you'd be happy with a 0-82 record to guarantee a 25% chance at winning the lottery. Forgetting that the Suns would earn the stigma as the worst team ever in the NBA which is currently held by the 1973 Philadelphia Sixers (9-73).

Dude you have less than the half a brain you claim the Suns FO has.

I don't agree with his exact specifics but before the season started, I was indeed saying that the front office's moves didn't seem to indicate any clear direction.

When they let Nash and Hill go, it was clear(to me and many others) that this team was going to be pretty horrific, but at least we ripped the bandaid off and could finally start the rebuild.

But their moves after that just seemed like one step in one direction, another step in another direction.

Dragic is my favorite player in the league, but signing him right after you drafted a point guard in the lottery(who, while Goran is here at least, will not be a starter for this team) is a "win now, no wait, rebuild" move.

Scola is the consummate professional, and I wanted him on this team for a number of years, while Nash and Hill were still HERE, but signing him after letting them go and after drafting a power forward in the lottery the previous year is another "win now, no wait, rebuild" move.

I don't blame them for doing everything they can to try to win early on in the season, because the FO's goals for this season seemed to be closer to "competitive potentially playoff team" than "lottery winner", but that's alarming, because that means they couldn't accurately assess their own team(whereas the national projections for this squad were all <30 wins).

So it's not so much their moves WITHIN the season that I have a problem with; it's their moves BEFORE the season, because they indicate a front office that seems slightly confused about which path to take. We're only in this position to get a great draft pick right now because their plan backfired so spectacularly. If the front office's plan was to create a competitive team this season(and it was), then they failed to a literally historic extent.

Still...Blabby's legacy has yet to be decided. We need to see what they do this summer, and maybe the next if they're still employed.

Edit: Might I add that "tanking" or "strategic draft positioning" or "player development *wink wink*" is pretty much the last resort to turn to. I hate that it's come to this. As a franchise, we've never had to stoop this low.

I hope they have a clear vision to get us out of this mess, and I hope they have the stones to execute it. Now that they're on this path, they need to stick with it. They've done well insofar as avoiding the panic moves(Gay, Smith) to get back on the treadmill of mediocrity. I hope they keep that wherewithal throughout the offseason.

That doesn't mean that I don't want them to be creative and aggressive. James Harden was a pretty perfect opportunity...there's been much debate about whether we actually had the assets to get him, but that was the kind of move this franchise needed. When I say I don't want them to make panic moves, I also don't want them to be 100% risk-averse. You'll never get back into contention without taking a swing here or there.

Heck...Beasley was one of those swings. I was firmly against signing him, but I understand why they did it. I do. The gamble blew up in our face, but again...I can kind of see the logic behind it(even though I think it was flawed in his particular case).

They need to be bold, brave, brilliant. They need to think outside the box. Less Markieff Morris, more Kenneth Faried...


Edit 2: One more thing to remember when it comes to evaluating Blabby. Sarver was actually the one who arranged the Dragic deal(he dealt with Nash/Goran's agent directly) AND the Scola pickup. Blanks wanted Raymond Felton.

Really...Babby seems competent to me(but maybe I'm fooled by his lawyer-speak, lol). Blanks seems like he has absolutely no idea what he's doing. If they kept Babby and dumped Blanks, I'd be okay with it.

[Sunsdeuce]

my biggest frustration with these current front office bone heads is they don't know left from right. They came out shouting that this team is so much better then last years team. And they fully expected to go to the playoffs at the start.

They proclaimed that Beasley was the teams savior. He would lead the charge. Then as every other team knows he is a mental case. He couldn't lead a team out of a paper bag.

Then things don't go as well as they wanted and fire gentry to "change the culture". Then hire a coach that needed a good five years of assistant coaching experience before even thinking about being a head coach. but blanks convinced babby to hire him. Now that the team is worse, they decide to fully tank.

This is just a few things that frustrate me but it shows me the lack of knowledge and planning this FO has. They can't evaluate talent, either through the draft or free agent pick-ups. Even trades have bit them in the butt.

So now they are at the point where everything they supposivly planned has failed. And just know start the tank mode.

It took them 3 quarters of the year to realize that the team they put together is horrible even though they tried so hard to convince everyone it was gonna be a playoff team. Always going on 620 defending themselves. And saying fans don't know anything, consistently. Now that they are embarrassed by "their" team they put together they tank. I'm all for getting a high draft pick, god knows we need it. Tank mode should have been done front the start by the FO and it would not have been so obvious as it is now. If they had a half a brain they would have known this team would be a mess from the start. That is why I cannot trust this front office. They always think have a diamond when in fact it is cubic zirconia.

So your saying the FO should have started the season by tanking. Basically you'd be happy with a 0-82 record to guarantee a 25% chance at winning the lottery. Forgetting that the Suns would earn the stigma as the worst team ever in the NBA which is currently held by the 1973 Philadelphia Sixers (9-73).

Dude you have less than the half a brain you claim the Suns FO has.

Well I guess words just appear out of the blue when you read stuff. I guess if you read an issue of Fortune magazine you would come back and tell me how that magazine is dumb because they write about Mr. Poppins Penguins.

[Sunsdeuce]

@rsavaj
I agree


To add your statement:
This comment:President of Basketball Operations Lon Babby remarked in October that this team is more talented than a year ago.

I also remember babby saying: He doesnt believe in tanking. He believes in rebuilding while staying competitive.

That is the nail in the coffin for me. You tell all the players to compete. When the season isnt where you want it, you start obvious tanking. Now the players are bitching about the obvious tanking.

I mean you dont pick up Scola if you know that you are gonna be bad. You pick up a scola cause you think you have a good chance at a playoff spot.

I listen to babby everytime he comes on 620 and I take mental notes of what he says. I think he was a great agent but he is a weak FO guy with an even weaker GM. I dont dislike babby as a person but I think he surrounded himself with piss poor leadership. I think he would be successful if he had an experienced respected GM who could help guide him. Or someone with a complete opposite attitude of Blanks.

[bigfoot]

Dragic is my favorite player in the league, but signing him right after you drafted a point guard in the lottery(who, while Goran is here at least, will not be a starter for this team) is a "win now, no wait, rebuild" move.

The FO had to know the Suns were thin at PG. Really was the starting PG going to be Telfair, a career backup, or a rookie? They had to spend some salary on replacing one of the best ever point guards in Nash. Dragic is actually one of better pickups by the FO (even though they let him go).

Scola is the consummate professional, and I wanted him on this team for a number of years, while Nash and Hill were still HERE, but signing him after letting them go and after drafting a power forward in the lottery the previous year is another "win now, no wait, rebuild" move.

I will agree this is one that is tough to understand when the Suns had too many good PFs (Frye and Scola) to give Kief playing time. Still I believe Scola will be moved this summer for at least a 1st round draft pick. Great contract, great player. The jury is out on this signing but agree it was meant to create a winning team this year.

I don't blame them for doing everything they can to try to win early on in the season, because the FO's goals for this season seemed to be closer to "competitive potentially playoff team" than "lottery winner", but that's alarming, because that means they couldn't accurately assess their own team(whereas the national projections for this squad were all <30 wins).

Dragic and Scola were to key piece on the Rockets that almost made the playoffs. The Suns nearly squeaked in too and lost Nash and Hill. Dragic was showing flashes of Nashesque play at the end of the season. Frye has shown that he was difference maker in the previous two seasons. The Suns fell out of the playoffs both times after he was injuried. Then you add Beasley ... obviously questionable ... but a scoring punch the Suns really needed. Finally you add a quality big in O'Neal. Why wouldn't the FO have some hope for squeaking into the playoffs. I don't think anybody believed the Suns where going to be an elite team but they should have been challenging for at least the eight seed. Since Gortat went down the Suns are 2-13 (.133) when they were playing closer to .420 before he was injured.

To me the FO has to try to put a winning product on the floor. You can't go into the season telling your ticket holders to come to a bunch of games we plan to lose. On paper those moves looked like they should help. Instead Frye goes down, Beasley 2.0 is Beasley 1.0, and then Gortat gets hurt (8-11 under Hunter at that time).

Really the only move I hated that the Suns FO made in the off season was resigning Brown. Beasley was the home run swing and they whiffed. In season moves of firing Gentry, moving Telfair for a draft pick, and acquiring Hadiddididiaiidididid and Marcus are all good. The found a gem in PJ Tucker too.

For the off-season I expect the Suns FO will try to figure out how to put a playoff level product on the floor.

[bigfoot]

So your saying the FO should have started the season by tanking. Basically you'd be happy with a 0-82 record to guarantee a 25% chance at winning the lottery. Forgetting that the Suns would earn the stigma as the worst team ever in the NBA which is currently held by the 1973 Philadelphia Sixers (9-73).

Dude you have less than the half a brain you claim the Suns FO has.

Well I guess words just appear out of the blue when you read stuff. I guess if you read an issue of Fortune magazine you would come back and tell me how that magazine is dumb because they write about Mr. Poppins Penguins.

Nope I read your post correctly (see below)

Tank mode should have been done front (sic) the start by the FO and it would not have been so obvious as it is now. If they had a half a brain they would have known this team would be a mess from the start.

[Sunsdeuce]

Me
Tank mode should have been done front the start by the FO and it would not have been so obvious as it is now. If they had a half a brain they would have known this team would be a mess from the start

How does the above equal the below. Your translation sucks


Bigfoot
So your saying the FO should have started the season by tanking. Basically you'd be happy with a 0-82 record to guarantee a 25% chance at winning the lottery. Forgetting that the Suns would earn the stigma as the worst team ever in the NBA which is currently held by the 1973 Philadelphia Sixers (9-73)



The FO doesn't know a talented team from a bad team is the point!

[bigfoot]

Me
Tank mode should have been done front the start by the FO and it would not have been so obvious as it is now. If they had a half a brain they would have known this team would be a mess from the start

How does the above equal the below. Your translation sucks


Bigfoot
So your saying the FO should have started the season by tanking. Basically you'd be happy with a 0-82 record to guarantee a 25% chance at winning the lottery. Forgetting that the Suns would earn the stigma as the worst team ever in the NBA which is currently held by the 1973 Philadelphia Sixers (9-73)



The FO doesn't know a talented team from a bad team is the point!

So your point is the FO didn't recognize they had talentless team. You are claiming they should have recognized the Suns were not talented and therefore should have tanked at the beginning of the year . By tanking I will assume you mean playing scrubs and rookies over seasoned veterans. So which coach was going to run the tank for them at the beginning of the season? Would they have been willing to sit Dudley, Gortat, Scola, and Dragic? So when Blabby goes on the radio circuit and get asked why aren't you playing your veterans what do they say? Your answer would be ... we decided to go into tank mode when our record was 0-0 because our team doesn't have enough talent.

[mybloodisorange]

It's possible to effect subtle change without broadcasting over a loud speaker "WE ARE TANKING!". The players don't tank I will agree with that; they have enough on their mind working on their game and such. But a front office can do little things to help such as sitting Dragic while Gortat is already out for the season. Total tank move.

When all is said and done I am perfectly happy with this season. The players got to grow and get minutes and we are going to end up in decent draft position. Now if only the Lakers could lose a few games so we get their pick, I would be the happiest man in Phoenix.

Goran cemented his role as the PG and leader this season. Honestly I feel anything else is up for grabs. This summers draft, free agency and trades will give us a much better picture moving forward.

[Scutt]

Every day that goes by, I miss Jerry Colangelo more and more.

In well over 30 years, Jerry Colangelo could never manage to get us a Championship OR a #1 draft pick. On top of that we only went to the Finals twice, and Colangelo was the worst kind of owner of all, he thought he knew more about basketball then the people he hired. ( At least Robert Sarver hasn't tried to coach, TWICE!!) It amazes me how Suns fans seem to have selective memories. Colangelo and Sarver both ran/run this team in a similar fashion, a treadmill team that is never good enough to win a championship, nor bad enough to land a top pick and give us a franchise player. Why do we have a history of getting a point guard as our best player and never having a legit center? ( Because some many teams have won championships that way?) Why have we always gone after "high character guys" instead of bruisers who could truly help our teams? Why do we have a history of saying one thing, while doing the complete opposite? oh yeah, Jerry Colangelo....

[BurningHeart]

A losing culture is exactly what the fans and this team wanted. **** them.

[RunDogGun]

A losing culture is exactly what the fans and this team wanted. **** them.

Some fans, but not all. I don't think the team wanted it either, some are still fighting it.

[BurningHeart]

A losing culture is exactly what the fans and this team wanted. **** them.

Some fans, but not all. I don't think the team wanted it either, some are still fighting it.

Well, those "some fans" are who I was talking about. The NBA2k-ers.

[RunDogGun]

A losing culture is exactly what the fans and this team wanted. **** them.

Some fans, but not all. I don't think the team wanted it either, some are still fighting it.

Well, those "some fans" are who I was talking about. The NBA2k-ers.