What to do with Knight?

Goldtop · Post #1 » by **Goldtop** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 3:25 am

In the 3 games with Drummond/Monroe starting, Knight has been non-existant, avg only 5 pts, 3 asts, and 3 TOs on 35% FG. He's only made 7 shots total in these 3 games too.

These games are not only to evaluate how Drummond/Monroe work together, but also how Knight works with Drummond/Monroe.

You would think with all the attention that Moose/Dre draw inside that Knight would have a field day shooting, but aside from the little scuffle with Nate Robinson, I haven't even noticed him in any of these games. And his main defensive assignment has had big games all 3 times on him.

Granted he got injured the first minute of the 1st game with Drummond back, and then got injured again later. So that could be hampering him. But if he's able to play, he's able to make an impact, and we just haven't seen it.

Logic says maybe he's just not equipped for the starting SG position. But logic also says he wasn't equipped for the starting PG position either. So where does that leave him on this team? Should he come off the bench next year? Do we trade him this summer?

I think there's better starting SG's available in the draft or FA, so there's no reason to me to stay with him at that position if its not working and costing us games. I also think I'd rather draft Trey Burke to play PG before going back to Knight at that position too, in the event Calderon doesn't resign.

Best case scenario is probably buy out Stuckey, let Bynum walk in FA, and basically just give that role to Knight next year and tell him the 2nd unit is his to run. Could he even do that better than Bynum/Stuckey though? You would hope so, but the evidence just isn't there to support it. I love Knights competitive fight and passion for the game, but eventually his production and impact has to match it or he's just running around wasting energy and not doing anything.

ComboGuardCity · Post #2 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 3:25 am

Give him a chance as our lead guard until the Trade Deadline.

Kilo · Post #3 » by **Kilo** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 3:34 am

He's a point guard or trade him. If we re-sign Calderon, Knight should be dealt.

Mr. Krabs · Post #4 » by **Mr. Krabs** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 4:06 am

Here is what I have been thinking:

I wonder if we can swing him for OKC's Toronto pick plus Lamb? (thinking it would be around 7th to 10th)

Detroit trades Knight + Singler + English

OKC trades Lamb + trade exceptions + pick

We draft Shabazz or Oladipo + Burke

Drummond/vet C
Monroe/CV/Jerebko
Shabazz/Middleton
Lamb/Stuckey
Burke/Calderon

Goldtop · Post #5 » by **Goldtop** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 4:09 am

I think if we are going to trade him, we should consider packaging him with whatever pick we get and try to trade up.

Because realistically his salary is too small to net any great veteran players in return. Our best bet is probably involving the draft. Either moving him for like an extra mid 1st rounder, or in a package with our top pick to move up.

If ORL wins the lottery and we get #5, I could possibly see them doing a Knight/5th pick for #1. There's no bonafide star to really build around in this draft, so maybe they'd prefer the route of being able to add multiple players instead. If they see Knight as a PG, they'd get their starting PG to go with Afflalo. Then could draft Porter at 5 to get their SF and have their perimeter set, to go with Vucevic and Nicholoson up front.

@ krabs, I was typing this before you posted yours, so its not in response to your post.

Id do that trade with OKC, though I don't think they would. They could get a better player than Knight by just keeping the pick probably. I'd look into it though if I were Joe. Maybe they like Stuckey and a package of Knight/Stuckey could get us their pick.

Mr. Krabs · Post #6 » by **Mr. Krabs** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 4:23 am

Goldtop wrote:@ krabs, I was typing this before you posted yours, so its not in response to your post.

Id do that trade with OKC, though I don't think they would. They could get a better player than Knight by just keeping the pick probably. I'd look into it though if I were Joe. Maybe they like Stuckey and a package of Knight/Stuckey could get us their pick.

This draft is being called one of the weakest in recent years, I know one GM called it "historically weak". I think if they are not on the top 8 they would consider this. PG is a need for them and Knight would fit into their system. He is a combo guard so he could play with K. Martin (if they resign) or R. Jackson. I wouldn't do this without Lamb involved.

Piston Pete · Post #7 » by **Piston Pete** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 4:41 am

Kilo wrote:He's a point guard or trade him. If we re-sign Calderon, Knight should be dealt.

I agree with this.

I still think he could be a very good PG in this league. He just needs to learn to not go so fast. He often seems to be rushing things offensively, hence the TOs. Once the game slows down for him (which will happen with time/experience), he will be good.

But yeah, if we intend on re-signing Calderon, both parties would be best served with a trade.

Hypothetical scenario: Knight/Monroe/our pick (assuming its not as high as ORL's) to ORL for Tobias Harris, Vucevic, and their 1st rounder?

Calderon
McLemore
Harris
Vucevic
Drummond

Pharaoh · Post #8 » by **Pharaoh** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 4:58 am

WTF? We acquired Calderon to help Knight - not so we could trade him!

The things Knight doesn't do well are the things Jose does exceptionally well! They haven't even had 1 training camp together and people assume if we keep 1 the other has to go.

Why?

Why can't we keep both and see how Knight progresses?

DetroitDon15 · Post #9 » by **DetroitDon15** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 5:01 am

Kilo wrote:He's a point guard or trade him. If we re-sign Calderon, Knight should be dealt.

I'd trade him for a young player and a lotto pick if i can get it. I wouldn't mind keeping Calderon because i feel he would be a better fit with the bigs. Calderon is pass first as opposed to shoot first with Knight. Just my thoughts.

Piston Pete · Post #10 » by **Piston Pete** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 5:05 am

Pharaoh wrote:Why?

Why can't we keep both and see how Knight progresses?

Cuz JC is stealing Knight's PG minutes and forcing Knight to play SG

Cuz we have better ways to spend the money it would take to re-sign JC. Just slide Knight back to PG...

Cuz if JC's gonna play 30+ minutes at PG, we'd be better off having another SG (one that can guard opposing SGs) start next to him.

Cuz sooner or later, we need to stop trying to fit square pegs into round holes and just make a decision. If Knight's the PG, let JC walk. If JC's the PG, trade Knight for some wings to pass to and complement Moose/Dre

Justifying re-signing JC and wanting to keep both long-term is like wishing for us to throw big money at Kaman to start ahead of, and get starter's minutes, over Drummond.

starfire81 · Post #11 » by **starfire81** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 5:09 am

Pharaoh wrote:WTF? We acquired Calderon to help Knight - not so we could trade him!

The things Knight doesn't do well are the things Jose does exceptionally well! They haven't even had 1 training camp together and people assume if we keep 1 the other has to go.

Why?

Why can't we keep both and see how Knight progresses?

Because for as long as we have Calderon, Knight will be played as a 2. It's just the way it is. I would blame Frank for not at least getting Brandon reps at the point when he was actually healthy, but Dumars seems to think he can turn Brandon into himself and encourages this foolishness.

It's even more annoying because people were counting on Calderon to be this miracle worker when he first got here and now we're relying on Stuckey at point and playing JC at off guard instead in order to win meaningless games that worsen our draft position in an already weak draft. :roll:

Jodi · Post #12 » by **Jodi** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 5:36 am

What do we do with Knight?.. Absolutely nothing, let the kid grow with Monroe and Drummond..The young fella is struggling because he's playing through an injury....The idea that we would trade Knight and keep Calderon is hilarious...

Goldtop · Post #13 » by **Goldtop** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 6:25 am

If you compare his stats both years its like a mirror image, its almost eery. Literally no improvement at all from rookie to sophmore years, which is usually when you see the MOST improvement from a player, as we saw with Monroe last year.

The stats are based on 66 games played his 1st yr and 67 games played his 2nd yr. So its pretty much a perfectly equal sample size.

He upped his FTA by 1 per game and his 3FG and FT% are down by a hair, but other than that everything is virtually identical, if not exactly identical. Its really weird. I don't think I've ever seen a 2 year sample from a player THIS consistently even. He's the most consistent average player in history, lol.

Post #14 » by **dVs33** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 6:43 am

Pharaoh wrote:WTF? We acquired Calderon to help Knight - not so we could trade him!

The things Knight doesn't do well are the things Jose does exceptionally well! They haven't even had 1 training camp together and people assume if we keep 1 the other has to go.

Why?

Why can't we keep both and see how Knight progresses?

Why are you being patient?? It's ludicrious. He's 20 yrs old and he hasn't developed into a complete PG yet. TRADE HIM!!!

Pharaoh · Post #15 » by **Pharaoh** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 9:55 am

You guys who want to trade Knight for wings to team with Drummond, Monroe and Calderon act like we have no other option!

But we do!

We have what is likely to be a top 5 pick in a Draft that features some pretty decent wing prospects

And there is the salary cap space we're going to have.. almost $30 mil... Even if our pick takes up $3 mil of that and JC performs a miracle and convinces Joe Dumars to give him $10 mil per season we'll still have $17 mil to spend on wings!

Impatience is how we got to this point!

I'll make it simple though:

Would you rather have Knight, Olapido and Brewer

OR

Brewer and Olapido?

princeofpalace · Post #16 » by **princeofpalace** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 10:20 am

If we can trade Knight to ORL for Harkless or Harris or in a package for Eric Gordon- then we definitely should.

If not. then the best thing for Knight and the team is to have him play alongside a big SG that can facilitate.

pistontr · Post #17 » by **pistontr** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 10:34 am

people here treat him like he is their child. stop feel sorry for him. he is earning 2 million dolar per year.

captainrebel · Post #18 » by **captainrebel** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 11:32 am

Piston Pete wrote:
Kilo wrote:He's a point guard or trade him. If we re-sign Calderon, Knight should be dealt.

I agree with this.

I still think he could be a very good PG in this league. He just needs to learn to not go so fast. He often seems to be rushing things offensively, hence the TOs. Once the game slows down for him (which will happen with time/experience), he will be good.
But yeah, if we intend on re-signing Calderon, both parties would be best served with a trade.

Hypothetical scenario: Knight/Monroe/our pick (assuming its not as high as ORL's) to ORL for Tobias Harris, Vucevic, and their 1st rounder?

Calderon
McLemore
Harris
Vucevic
Drummond

As the PG he is the one who should dictate the tempo of the game (Billups). Unless you get an absolute "can't past" deal don't trade him just yet. Give him some more time to develop. Just don't wait as long as you did with Stuckey.

rmfc · Post #19 » by **rmfc** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 12:29 pm

Make Knight the starting PG at the start of the next season. If he can't figure it out or if there is a trade involving a star player, then trade him.

IMO, a 30-yr old, no defense Calderon is definitely not the answer for the PG issues in Detroit.

When every lotto bound team is playing their youngsters over useless vets, I wonder why Frank is still sticking with Calderon at PG in these meaningless games. Shouldn't we atleast try and see what happens when the young core is playing (at their appropriate positons) together? No wonder we have a tough time developing any young talent.

Pharaoh · Post #20 » by **Pharaoh** » Tue Apr 2, 2013 12:43 pm

pistontr wrote:people here treat him like he is their child. stop feel sorry for him. he is earning 2 million dolar per year.

I don't feel sorry for Knight... but I'm not in favour of trading a 20 year old PG/SG that has the intangibles that Knight has simply because he's not good enough in the minds of some fans

People compare Brandon Knight to a whole host of other players who entered the NBA and "dominated"... and I'm willing to bet that none of those other guys entered the league in a lockout season AND had an All-Star calibre big man that needed to be fed the ball often!

Here we are 1 season later and it seems most of this forum wants to trade the guy! That's insane!

Almost every single comparison I've seen is so far off the mark it makes me smile...

My favourite is when Westbrook is brought into the discussion! The fact he gets mentioned tells me that the person who brought him into the debate has very little idea of how a real offense works and how one featuring Durant differs to one that features Monroe.

Westbrook and Knight might be combo guards with brass balls and all the intangibles you want in a player... but if you believe that playing with Durant is even remotely similar to playing with Greg Monroe then you need to go play some ball on a legit team that actually runs an offense

Maybe we should compare Brandon Jennings to Knight? After all, Jennings had Andrew Bogut on his team at one point... and that's the same as Knight having Monroe... right? Wrong! Jennings is the #1 option in that situation... Knight is not! You can not compare Knight to Jennings and claim that their situations are similar

I can do this all day unless someone can find me another situation where the young PG entered the league with an All Star calibre big man on his roster and the young PG quickly took the reigns of the team away from said All-Star calibre big man.

I also believe we've been through this before though... and I asked someone to post some evidence that suggested Knight deserved the level of hate he has received on this board. A person posted advanced stats that show that Knight is average or just below average when you compare his stats with the other PGs in the NBA

At his age, with his intangibles yes we all expected more... I'm guessing the franchise expected more too. And that is why they traded for Jose Calderon!

Calderon was not brought here to replace Knight! He was brought here to help him!

And after less than 40 games people want Knight or Calderon (or both!) gone? This is insanity IMO

Calderon is a poor defender. Knight is not. Calderon runs the offense efficiently. Knight does not. Calderon manages the game expectionally well. Knight does not. Knight works his arse off to get better. Calderon is at the peak of his powers.

WTF is the problem?

What should we do with Knight next year