Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II

[stevemcqueen1]

Consiglieri, your argument isn't really germane to the point Severn was making that players from the big 6 conferences are better projections because they face more NBA caliber talent. That's the point most relevant to this thread. Mid major prospects don't compete against nearly as much future NBA talent as the kids from the big 6 conferences, and thus their evaluations will be sketchier. Level of competition matters. An overwhelming majority of successful NCAA draft picks come from the big 6.

[The Consiglieri]

Consiglieri, your argument isn't really germane to the point Severn was making that players from the big 6 conferences are better projections because they face more NBA caliber talent. That's the point most relevant to this thread. Mid major prospects don't compete against nearly as much future NBA talent as the kids from the big 6 conferences, and thus their evaluations will be sketchier. Level of competition matters. An overwhelming majority of successful NCAA draft picks come from the big 6.

I hear you, and you're right, I just wanted to take issue with a particular argument that bothered me. I don't disagree w/that point at all.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I would not pass up Porter or Burke if available. I love their skills, but even moreso their mentality, maturity, IQ, and their physical and mental toughness.

But this draft is loaded with quality bigs, Noel, Len, Olynyck, Zeller. One will be available to us and it could the way to go, and a unique opportunity to get a really good big as low as our pick will likely be.

But it's so loaded, that we could conceivably fill another need with the top pick, perhaps move up from our 2nd pick, and still come away with Withey or Dieng, or Muscala. And there are several others projected as 1st rounders, but those are the ones I'm interested in. But this a draft for bigs no doubt.

[truwizfan4evr]

Some of the wizards fan want us to draft a back up point guard i would rather use are second round pick to address that need then use are lottery pick. With the lottery pick i think we should try to get a small forward if not a small forward atleast another big man to replace Okafor.

[hands11]

Baylor and Iowa on now if anyone want to see Pierre Jackson and Cory Jefferson.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330940239

Baylor wins the title.

Pierre just has crazy sick handles and great court vision. He can really make the nice pass.
Cory has a legit NBA PF build. He just might become something eventually on the big floor in a few years.

And whats up with these bigs I gave up on ? Isaiah Austin showed some nice skills. Great floor awareness. Solid passing. Unselfish. Great timing on the blocked shots. Even a team leader.

I still think he should stay in school another year but eventually I think he could produce decently in the pros. He has skills. He just need to get stronger first. Two years of weight training should get him there.

[Ruzious]

Baylor and Iowa on now if anyone want to see Pierre Jackson and Cory Jefferson.

Quite a game by Baylor. Even though Bobby Knight couldn't stop talking about how great Austin is and how great he'll be if he stays another year, the presidents - Jackson and Jefferson just continued to do the bulk of the real work in Baylor's very impressive run of the NIT. I'd swear Jackson's bigger than his backcourt mate - AJ Walton - even though Walton's listed at 3 inches taller and 3 lbs heavier. Walton actually seemed like Jackson's toughest opponent out there - with his egotistical moments. Jackson's had a rep in the past of being selfish, but his run of games with 10 plus assists is uber impressive for a college PG. He'll play in the NBA. And Jefferson did his usual extremely efficient scoring show despite getting in early foul trouble.

But Austin did play perhaps his best all-around game and did show that if he gets stronger - as he should - he's got impressive potential. But if he goes pro now, he won't play at all as a rookie.

[nuposse04]

I liked Austin a lot earlier in the season, and still wouldn't mind if we ended up taking him, but he needs to add about 30-40 lbs within the next year and a half. Anthony davis was rail thin as well but actually came in looking like he added significant weight this season.

If you're drafting on potential alone, the only bigs I see having a higher ceiling than Austin are Noel, and Gobert. Maybe Len too, he'd probably look a lot better playing along side Pierre.

Jefferson reminds me of a 2 inch taller booker.

[Dark Faze]

We're not getting Elias Harris and Gonzaga with Kelly Olynyk if we draft him, nor the sorry ass conference he got to dominate as one of the only NBA caliber players in the bunch. We're just getting his current skills and the skills we think he can develop.

Lolz, it's not as if Duke, Miami or UNC have any lottery talent. Specifically in regards to the center position, Len was basically going against a lot of bigs who will be lucky to still be in the NBA in a couple of years (Plumlee, Kadji) if they even make it at all, so the conference/strength of schedule argument really only takes you so far.

Can someone tell me how Len is different from Miles Leonard? Both guys came out after their soph years, both of them have very similar advanced stats, both have very similar physical builds/athleticism. Meyers was more assertive than Len if anything, and yet he still looks bad in the league right now on a team that is desperate for center help.

I mean, it's the 10th pick in the draft more than likely. Deciding to pass on a big with historically high TS%/PER and performed at a high level in every tournament game (including against Wichita, who is in the Final FOUR btw...just sayin) with good physical tools, skill set, intangibles, passing on that for another athletic young project big just seems crazy to me.

[Ruzious]

I liked Austin a lot earlier in the season, and still wouldn't mind if we ended up taking him, but he needs to add about 30-40 lbs within the next year and a half. Anthony davis was rail thin as well but actually came in looking like he added significant weight this season.

If you're drafting on potential alone, the only bigs I see having a higher ceiling than Austin are Noel, and Gobert. Maybe Len too, he'd probably look a lot better playing along side Pierre.

Jefferson reminds me of a 2 inch taller booker.

Remember, Anthony Davis had extra wide shoulders even when he was 208 lbs. That told you he had the frame to add a lot of weight. Austin has a much thinner frame. He'll get bigger than he is now, but he doesn't have a great frame. But he is 7 feet tall.

[Ruzious]

We're not getting Elias Harris and Gonzaga with Kelly Olynyk if we draft him, nor the sorry ass conference he got to dominate as one of the only NBA caliber players in the bunch. We're just getting his current skills and the skills we think he can develop.

Lolz, it's not as if Duke, Miami or UNC have any lottery talent. Specifically in regards to the center position, Len was basically going against a lot of bigs who will be lucky to still be in the NBA in a couple of years (Plumlee, Kadji) if they even make it at all, so the conference/strength of schedule argument really only takes you so far.

Can someone tell me how Len is different from Miles Leonard? Both guys came out after their soph years, both of them have very similar advanced stats, both have very similar physical builds/athleticism. Meyers was more assertive than Len if anything, and yet he still looks bad in the league right now on a team that is desperate for center help.

I mean, it's the 10th pick in the draft more than likely. Deciding to pass on a big with historically high TS%/PER and performed at a high level in every tournament game (including against Wichita, who is in the Final FOUR btw...just sayin) with good physical tools, skill set, intangibles, passing on that for another athletic young project big just seems crazy to me.

It's a good comparison. I think Leonard is actually more talented and more skilled than Len, but he struck me at Illinois as someone who's mentally soft.

[nuposse04]

I liked Austin a lot earlier in the season, and still wouldn't mind if we ended up taking him, but he needs to add about 30-40 lbs within the next year and a half. Anthony davis was rail thin as well but actually came in looking like he added significant weight this season.

If you're drafting on potential alone, the only bigs I see having a higher ceiling than Austin are Noel, and Gobert. Maybe Len too, he'd probably look a lot better playing along side Pierre.

Jefferson reminds me of a 2 inch taller booker.

Remember, Anthony Davis had extra wide shoulders even when he was 208 lbs. That told you he had the frame to add a lot of weight. Austin has a much thinner frame. He'll get bigger than he is now, but he doesn't have a great frame. But he is 7 feet tall.

Davis is wider, but I wouldn't say Austin has the worst frame in the draft among the prospective bigs. Noel actually seems considerably less broad shoulders. Also Zeller was 205 last season I believe, DX has him at 240 now. I don't think a big NEEDs shoulders like Davis to add on good weight. I just don't know what would be the ideal scenario for Austin. He'd at least have to go from 220 to 255. Otherwise the only thing he'd have to his defensive advantage is his length. Which won't really matter against Lopez, Drummond and Hibbert.

I'm actually a little surprised DX has Plumlee going before Austin. Plumlee is just an energy big with limited upside.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

Harris and Pangos helped Olynyk IMO. They coexisted symbiotically. Having guys who know how to play is like that saying iron sharpens iron.

OTOH, watching Nick Faust launch jumpers independent of any offensive sets, watching Pe'Shon Howard pound the ball and blow open shots and layups, watching Jake Layman throw passes to air, watching Seth Allen do a bad year's past-head-down-John Wall but without the height or skills, and Logan Aronhalt when not shooting threes look like he's doing the robot dance; all of that worked against Alex Len.

About the only guy who looked to me to have a really good rapport with Len was Charles Mitchell. I saw him do big-to-big passes and he also knew to crash the boards hard after Alex shot the ball. They played well together but that was it.

I say all of that to say Olynyk's had a lot of time to improve (especially the year off) and his play with those better players as well as with Sacre of the Lakers has him looking much better statistically than Len. Alex has definitely not shown any fire in some games and he's been outplayed by guys 6'6" to 6'8" in the post at times. HOWEVER, he's been on his own. With the guys Washington has it would be a good environment for him.

My problem is I like McDermott and Porter better for the Wizards than Len. I also think the smartest thing is to get Zeke Marshall in round two. He's a huge sleeper in this draft.

McDermott will most likely drop to the 2nd round , so you might still get your wish. There's no way the Wizards are drafting him with a lotto pick.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

They'll draft a guy like Vesely 6th but they and all the others fail to consider that McDermott AVERAGED 29.8 points per-40 minutes, pace adjusted. He made virtually 50% of his threes. He is a good rebounder and the son of a coach.

Yet, he could drop to the second round. (???)

Makes zero sense to me.

[hands11]

Let me see if I can help CCJ.

He is a pale white kid that has the baby face look of a golfer, not a basketball player and he doesn't come from a big name school.

If he was a Euro or a black kid from a bigger name school, he would go higher.

Yes, those kinds of things still have an influence. Stereo typing still exists. He just doesn't look like a NBA player.

On the other hand, Pierre is 5-10, but dude looks like a basketball player.

[Severn Hoos]

Sorry for the hijacking of the draft thread (my favorite one on the board!) with the SoS discussion, I'll add one more thing and then be done. (Yeah, right...)

The point about VCU & Butler making the Final Four (both in the A-10, BTW, which I think is now better than the Pac-12, but I digress) actually makes my point, IMO. For the most part, they (and GMU a few years before that) were teams dominated by upperclassmen & veterans, while the NBA talent on the other side was primarily Freshmen & Sophomores. Remember the guy on Butler named Howard (?) with the curly hair? He looked great in the tournament. I rooted for him every game, and doubly so against Duke. But I never thought he was a legitimate NBA prospect. Mack was the undisputed leader on those teams, and he's proven to be a fringe player. Hayward was the one exception - and he too left after his Soph year.

These are great teams, great stories, but not necessarily NBA prospects. There's always the exception - Faried, Millsap, etc. - and those guys can be great contributors at the NBA level. But if you're looking for impact players, be cautious with the Mid-Major guys. Your odds are far, far better with guys from the traditional power schools & conferences.