The General Manager Analysis Project

Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal

Which analysis do you think was the best?

Spurs- Popp/Buford
4
40%
Heat- Riley
0
No votes
Lakers- West/Kupchak
2
20%
Rockets- Morey
4
40%
Detroit- Joe
0
No votes
Clippers- Sterling
0
No votes
Bucks- Hammond/Nelson
0
No votes
Wizards- Unseld
0
No votes
Knicks- Isiah/Layden
0
No votes
Pacers- Walsh
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 10

jman2585
Banned User
Posts: 1,346
And1: 8
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
Location: Karma is a bitch

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#21 » by jman2585 » Fri Apr 5, 2013 3:10 pm

Billy King (Nets), 2010-present
Image
This is not so much a defence of Billy King's moves, as many have been objectively bad in an ordinary context, but rather an attempt to explain why the special context of the Nets makes them acceptable.

I see alot of people slam the Nets for spending alot of money for short term gain, or for trading Gerald Wallace to try and win now, and there is some justice to those criticisms. Indeed, for any other team, their management would be a disaster. But the Nets are not any other team, and their team is in a unique position where winning now makes sense. Here are some things I think people need to bear in mind:
1) The Nets were one stupid Dwight Howard decision away from getting Dwight in the offseason (then he opted in for an extra year because he was afraid of bad PR- ironically causing more bad PR). Dwight could easily have been a Net, and then these guys are geniuses.
2) The Nets were moving to a new market place, and they viewed winning now as a necessary component of their plan to make alot of money. I realise fans don't care about profitability, but we're not talking small amounts of money here. The Brooklyn Nets will probably be one of the 5 most valuable franchises in the NBA in the next 3 years, and it's thanks to brand management, good marketing, and building a playoff team who NY'ers can get behind. Just consider the results. The Nets were one of the most unprofitable franchises in recent years, they had the worst attendance last year, and had been bleeding money for years. This year they are selling over 20% more tickets, despite tickets being the most expensive in the NBA. They're going to make a big profit this year even with the luxury tax, and they're going to lay the foundations for a franchise who is one of the marquee destinations in the NBA.
3) The Nets had to worry about Deron Williams leaving too, so they needed to sell him on having vets like Gerald Wallace and Joe Johnson who would help the team win now.
4) The Nets have looks alot better since ditching Avery, and sound like they'll spend what is necessary to bring in a big name coach.
5) The Nets are one of the few markets who might be able to improve via players forcing their way there in trades, and while most teams can't plan to build a team like that, the Nets are in a position where they can hope for that. It'll be very difficult, but it's not like they need to be a contender in the next 3 years, just good enough in the Eastern Conference to sell it to fans, and then clear the decks down the road for a cap space run (plus maybe one year of heavy tanking leading into it, after they've built the brand, and once fans are behind them).

I realise the Nets moves haven't always made sense from a basketball point of view, but they're making hundreds of millions of dollars in profit here, and in the long term (3-5 years) they'll be able to take advantage of their new status and brand to build a true contender. It's not like they weren't trying for a contender this time around either, they were one Dwight boneheaded decision away from being one. Basically King has been told to "go for it", and he's doing that.
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#22 » by bondom34 » Fri Apr 5, 2013 5:38 pm

Good thread, I was researching after the other one began as well. For a ref. link:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
jman2585
Banned User
Posts: 1,346
And1: 8
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
Location: Karma is a bitch

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#23 » by jman2585 » Sat Apr 6, 2013 12:41 am

Bucks (Hammond), 2008-present
Image
What I dislike most about Hammond is his total lack of direction. He is keeping the least valuable team is the NBA least relevant (hovering at #8 in the Leastern Conference, where they will get the honour of being spanked by the Heat in round 1). Next year Jennings will try to force his way out, and some lower ranked Eastern teams will improve, and the Bucks will be fighting for 9th again (like last year). It’s a depressing treadmill cycle to be stuck in for fans, and in all Hammond represents what will happen to a team if they try to “emulate” the win now model of the [flavour of the week team that isn’t really a contender, but whose fans overrate their players], but who don’t have everything go right for them.

Let’s look at the different layers of Hammond’s awfulness:

Hammond has no vision for his teams
Hammond inherited a 26 win team. He had to decide whether to win now, or play the lottery game. Instead Hammond made moves in both directions. This sort of thing is almost always counter-productive, because when you pull a cart in 2 directions simultaneously, you’re sure not to get anywhere. He hired a “win now” coach in Scott Skiles, but then traded Mo Williams and Desmond Mason for Ridnour and Damon Jones. Huh. He traded a lotto pick for Richard Jefferson, but then a year later traded him for cap relief basically. He drafted a high school point guard in 2009, but kept signing “win now” vets like Stackhouse, Elson, Warrick, Skinner, etc. He traded young Amir Johnson before he could play a game for Delfino to try and win now, but let Charlie V and Sessions leave for nothing in free agency. Make your mind up dammit John! Each move seemed to undermine the direction previously established. “I’m rebuilding… no I’m not”. I think at this point it’s pretty clear there is no real strategy at work at all here (or if there is, it’s totally missed the boat). This goes a long way to explaining the terrible results Hammond produced:
2009- 34 wins
2010- 46 wins
2011- 35 wins
2012- 38 wins (pro-rated to 82 games)

Now in fairness to Hammond, there was a time in 2010 where people thought he was a genius, when Bogut peaked and Jennings looked like a future stud for about half of 2010. This post should give people a good flavour of the mood about Hammond:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=994995&start=60
Dr Positivity wrote: I'm going to say [the best GM is] John Hammond even with the Joe pick. When he came on the Bucks had the Mo/Redd chuckfest, Charlie V. and Yi, Bogut, and Sessions showing flashes after his 20ast game. That is an ass team to build with. They were 30TH in the league defensively and full of chucking offensively. In less than two years he's completley rebuilt the team's culture to emphasize defense and hard nosed effort. What's amazing is that of his original assets, Mo turned into Ridnour, Redd is giving him a 0 for a max contract, they got literally nothing for the Alexander and Yi picks, Charlie V. and Sessions. Last summer people were laughing at how unprecendtly awful the Bucks summer was after getting nothing for all those assets.

Hammond's success truly spits in the face of the "tank for bottom 5 picks and amass as many young players as possiblez!!!" strategy. Instead of worrying about the horses game and making sure the "value was right" for his pieces, he looked at the overall result and whether the deal put the team closer to where it needed to be. 98% of the posters here would've laughed off a Mo for Ridnour deal for being a "rip-off"... and yet IMO that deal was ESSENTIAL for remolding the Bucks

What's even funnier is Tank Nation uses OKC as the model of how to rebuild. But the reason OKC is good is the culture Presti set up as opposed to the band of losers lineups the Clippers, Grizzlies, and Warriors roll out from the draft. They're in the playoffs this year because of their defense and commitment to team play - If they played d like Memphis they'd suck ass. The difference between Presti/Pritchard and Hammond is not as different as you'd think. All those rebuilds relied on creating an environment of winning.

This post was by no means the only post I found here praising Hammond, and comparing him favourably to the best GM’s in the NBA.

I think it was fair to be optimistic about the team in 2010, but once it became clear Jennings was regressing (and Bogut was too injury prone to build around) the team should have really rebuilt. Even in 2010 all they did was win 46 games in a terrible conference, it wasn’t even close to an indication they could turn that talent into a contender. But Hammond just continued to build a “defensive” team without enough talent, and the teams often don’t even fit that “concept”. Ellis and Jennings don’t fit in the backcourt, and are anything but defensive stoppers. Ilyasova is a nice stretch 4, but you can’t play a defensive system with a stretch 4 full time. Nor are guys like Gooden, Reddick or Dunleavy famed for their defensive toughness. The roster is just a mismatch of players. The strategic vision is just not there. Another case in point- acquiring veterans like Gooden and Dunleavy and Dally to help the team win a few extra games, when the end result is a sweep in the playoffs by the Heat. Better to not sign those guys and blow the team up.

Hammond is bad at trades
Hammond makes a lot of bad trades.
- Desmond Mason & Mo Williams for Damon Jones and Ridnour looks like a pretty bad trade
- He traded the #10 pick, Salmons (who had decent value at the time), and the soon expiring contract of Maggette for S.Jax, Harris, Udrich and the corpse of S.Livingston. To make matters worse the team feuded with S.Jax, gave away Harris (the only good asset they got) after refusing to play him, and didn’t use Udrich properly (which annoyed him). The #10 pick? It could have been used on guys like Kawhi or Faried. Horrible.
- He traded Tobias Harris and Udrich for Reddick. Reddick is a rental for a few months (and wants too much money for it to be sensible to keep him), while Harris is busy ripping it up (and is only 20). Horrible.
- Trading Bogut for Monta Ellis, while not so terrible in hindsight, is bad considering the perceived value Bogut had at the time. He’d been a DPOY candidate recently, and his new injuries after being traded were basically unforeseeable. He could have fetched better than this, and would have if they hadn’t insisted S.Jax be thrown in. Stupid.
- Trading Yi (who still had value) and the soon to be expiring contract of Bobby Simmons (which was valuable with the 2010 free agent frenzy coming up) for the big contract of Richard Jefferson is a bad move (and they were forced basically give Jefferson away a year later for contracts that had no positive value, meaning they gave away 2 good assets for nothing). Worse still, this was one of the “win now” moves that helped ensure the Bucks were too good for a chance at some of the franchise changing players they could have drafted in the lotto that year (Griffin, Harden, Rubio, Curry, etc).
Hammond sometimes gives out stupid money to bad players, but ownerships’ tight purse strings mostly regulates this. He overpaid Gooden (5 yrs for 32 mill why?!) and Salmons, but actually gave Ilyasova a decent deal. Generally this area isn’t so much of a problem. Hammond has a couple of decent trades, but nothing to get too excited about.

Hammond’s staff does not develop players, or create a positive culture for them
Scott Skiles specialises in going to non-contender teams and making them win more than they should, while being a hardass with his young players. A team with young guys they need developed should never hire Scott Skiles. Hires like this always end the same way- the coach is a hardass, there is some initial success/overachievement, and then the players tune the coach out and the coach is fired/quits. Skiles got on the nerves of a lot of players, to the detriment of their development and trade value.
- Stephen Jackson did not get along with Skiles, resulting in him being sent to the bench, being portrayed as a cancer and having no trade value. This not only made the trade to get S.Jax look terrible, but then forced them to trade him (hurting their return on Bogut). Sure, S.Jax was playing bad and clearly didn't fit what Skiles wanted to do with him... but it should have been dealt with before it came to a benching (like, never trading for him in the first place- or if Skiles didn't like him and couldn't find a way to make him effective, then either fire Skiles, or move Stephen before he destroys any trade value he has. One of the reasons he was so unhappy in Milwaukee (and Charlotte) was because he felt he deserved a contract extension for playing on a bad team. The benching was always going to result in Stephen saying something stupid to the media.
- Skiles clearly generated a negative relationship with some players- Jennings clearly hated him, Udrich has made it clear since being traded that he thought very little of the coaching staff, Tobias Harris was being benched for no reason despite ripping it up in practise and SL.
- The team has done very little to address this perception- Jennings recent tirade about how he wants out is a good example. The players don’t know where they stand, because the team has no direction.
- Player development also seems bad. Jennings has never grown as a player, Harris was never utilised properly, Amir was sent off before you could even develop him. It makes you really worry about whether guys like Henson will get developed properly.

Hammond is a mediocre drafter
Hammond isn’t the worst drafter. He’s found good players like Larry Sanders in the late lotto, and Moute in the 2nd round. On the other hand he drafted mega bust Joe Alexander, and made poor use of the 2011 pick. Jennings looked great initially, but in the long term hasn’t really panned out great, and you definitely should have taken Ty Lawson or Jrue Holiday instead. All in all Hammond has little to recommend himself.
jman2585
Banned User
Posts: 1,346
And1: 8
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
Location: Karma is a bitch

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#24 » by jman2585 » Sat Apr 6, 2013 4:27 am

Dan Ferry (Cavs), 2005-2010
Image
A GM who is much maligned is Dan Ferry. People look at the fact Lebron left, and then blame Ferry, asking questions that are easily answered like “Why didn’t Ferry rebuild around Lebron?” or “why did Ferry blow his cap space on Larry Hughes” or “Why did Ferry keep acquiring expensive, washed up veterans, keeping the team over the cap?” These questions all have sensible answers, which bear out the wisdom behind most of Ferry’s time with Cleveland.

2005- Ferry comes on the scene
Ferry arrived in 2005 as a replacement for possibly the worst GM of all time (see the section on Jim Paxson). What he saw was the titanic about to sink. To begin with, his predecessor had left him with no talent aside from Lebron to build around. He’d blown or traded all the remaining and past (non-Lebron) draft picks, he’d let Boozer go, he’d traded good players like Andre Miller. The team had nothing, except for Z-Ill, who Ferry was shocked to discover ownership had decided to let go. Ferry’s first job was talking the Cleveland management into keeping Z-Ill, who was their only other good player at the time. Ferry’s problems ran deeper though. Lebron’s first free agency was coming up. In the 2007 offseason (less than 2 years away) Lebron could either sign a new deal, or he could take the qualifying offer and become a real free agent in 2008. The NBA at the time was rife with rumours about how Lebron would do this to escape, with numerous destinations being mooted. If Ferry tanked the team to get some lotto talent to put around Lebron, then Lebron would not be likely to stay. As it was Lebron signed a shorter contract than he could have in 2007, going for a mere 3 seasons (as opposed to Melo, who signed a 5 year extension). Tanking was off the table if they wanted to keep Lebron, and more than that they needed to show the team was improving. Ferry had no assets and very few options.

The 2005 offseason- Ferry tries to sign free agents, but nobody wants to come to Cleveland
Ferry’s first shot was to use the team’s cap space in 2005 to try and lure free agents. Unfortunately, all the good players turned Ferry down. This was a period where pretty much any all-star type player could force their team to give them a max contract, and often did, and in that environment everyone opted to stay with their existing team (for more money).
- Ray Allen turned Ferry down and stayed in Seattle for big money
- Joe Johnson, a guy Lebron was vocal in saying he wanted, was restricted, and the Suns clearly would have matched anything given they maxed him out (twice)
- Even Michael Redd turned Ferry down, opting to sign with the Bucks (for the max of course).
All this can be read here: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2103569

Ferry was getting desperate, as literally everyone he wanted was re-signing with their old team. Alot of people, when challenged to name the players Ferry could have signed this offseason, respond by saying “then he should have saved the cap space”. This is an impractical response for 3 reasons:
1) The result of the Cavs letting Z-Ill go and adding no good players would have been the Cavs sucked in the 2006 season. Lebron would have simply taken his player option and left the team 2 years early (which would have given him the leverage to force a trade, and leave 3 years early). The time for tanking had come and gone, and thanks to Paxson they had nothing to show for it sans Lebron.
2) “Saving the space” almost never works. Firstly your own players are usually owed contract increases, which takes up some of the space. New draft picks and cap holds also take up the space you used to have. Then you’ve got to sign dud players (because only dud players sign 1 year deals) in order to preserve the cap space for the next year, which again means your team will be bad.
3) The 2005 free agent class was supposed to be stronger than the 2006 one, so it’s unclear who Ferry could have gotten in 2006 anyway. If free agents had turned him down in 2005, why should Ferry have felt like 2006 would be any different? Small markets struggle to get free agents, even the Spurs in 2003 (coming off a title with a great situation) didn’t attract any of the big name free agents they hoped to, in what was a vastly better free agency class.

Ferry did the only sensible thing he could in the circumstances. He signed the best available guys in 2005. Firstly he signed Larry Hughes, who was coming off a great season in which he’d been a borderline all-star, and an all-defensive first teamer. Nobody ragged on Ferry for signing Hughes at the time, the press and reaction was very positive (http://www.fearthesword.com/2013/3/12/4 ... rry-hughes). Unfortunately Hughes immediately suffered a series of debilitating injuries, and never regained his past form. Ferry rolled the dice a little on Hughes, but he was in truth the best available guy. The Wizards had themselves offered him $70 million over 6 years, the guy was generally well perceived at the time (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2103569). He also signed a very good role player, Donyell Marshall, who fans here have forgotten. Donyell Marshall was a very nice pick up. To give his team some more shooting he added Damon Jones. He also tried to pursue Sarunas from overseas (with no luck).

Ferry keeps tinkering
Ferry has struck out in the 2005 offseason, but he kept tinkering with a mandate from ownership- spend whatever it takes, just improve the team and win now. Ferry overall did very well in doing this, gradually rolling bad assets over into better ones. People who hate Ferry only look at the assets he got and say “he traded for old Shaq” or “he got a used up Ben Wallace”. They don’t look at what Ferry gave up in these deals (which was basically nothing). And the results speak for themselves. The Cavs improved from the 42 win team they were before Ferry arrived:
- In 2006 they won 50 games
- In 2007 they won 50 games, and made the finals
- In 2008 they won 45 games (but were 0-7 without Lebron)
- In 2009 they won 66 games
- In 2010 they won 61 games (but coasted/rested a little at the end of the season)
So while the team put around Lebron was not “good”, certainly not relative to the stacked teams that came into being in 2008 onwards like the Celtics and Lakers, Ferry still improved the roster James started with in 2005, despite having no real assets to do so. Ferry would add decent role players like Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, Joe Smith, Delonte West, Jamison, Wally, etc. No, these guys weren’t great, but they were plausible role players, and Ferry got them for basically nothing in terms of talent given up. He also kept good role players like Varejao around. Compare it to the pieces Ferry started with- the best players on the 2005 Cavs outside of Lebron and Z-Ill were Jeff McInnis, Ira Newble, Drew Gooden, Robert Traylor, Sasha Pavlovic, Lucious Harris and 31 year old Eric Snow. That was the rotation Paxson left him. He was also not left with the option of blowing it up, or losing now to save cap space, he was told (rightly) it was all in. In that light Ferry should get credit for doing a decent job with virtually no assets.

The last thing I think shows Ferry’s savvy is that he resigned as GM before the decision happened. While the rest of the world was wondering where Lebron would go (and let’s not rewrite history, nobody knew $@#%) Ferry had obviously figured it out, and wanted to get out before he could be fired as the scapegoat. Smart man.
BattleTested
Veteran
Posts: 2,506
And1: 530
Joined: Jun 22, 2011

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#25 » by BattleTested » Sat Apr 6, 2013 6:22 am

Wow, that must have taken a loooong time to write. Effort is appreciated, but I can't help but wonder why Kupchack isn't on this list. He is certainly either in the good or the middling-good tier.
Lakers fan since 99.

PCProductions wrote:NBA has probably the most parity of any pro sport.
jman2585
Banned User
Posts: 1,346
And1: 8
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
Location: Karma is a bitch

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#26 » by jman2585 » Sat Apr 6, 2013 6:38 am

Can't do every GM simultaneously. I prioritise the ones I have strong feelings about. Kupchack isn't one of those, but maybe some time in the future.
jman2585
Banned User
Posts: 1,346
And1: 8
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
Location: Karma is a bitch

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#27 » by jman2585 » Sat Apr 6, 2013 8:43 am

Demps (Hornets), 2010-present
Image Image
Demps is very much the black sheep of the Spurs family. While the Spurs and Thunder front offices are universally praised, and the front offices newly set up in Utah, Atlanta and Orlando are generally regarded as top notch, Demps isn’t held in quite the same regard. Part of this is because Demps was (supposedly) not as highly regarded in SA when he was there, but part of it stems from the fact he’s already made a few slips. While overall his record does the Spurs franchise proud, I’d rate him the least effective of the 6.

The most important thing Demps has done pat is strategic vision. Admittedly it’s not a very original vision, he’s just copying Presti, but he’s doing a good job of it. After arriving in 2010 he took a year to survey the landscape, realised they couldn’t contend (and that Chris Paul was gone) and began work on a new direction- rebuilding through the draft. He made a lot of good moves in order to clear the decks, and generally upgrade talent.
- Firstly, he gave up a future mid-first rounder in exchange for Bayless. Why? So he could ship Bayless a week later with Peja for some role players (in what amount to a deal designed to clear salary, and give them a back up point in the form of J.Jack). I have no idea why Toronto were obsessed with Bayless, but they were. The Raptors waived Peja pretty quickly afterwards.
- He turned the useless Julian Wright into the useful Belineli
- He turned 2 useless role players (Craig Brackins and Darius Songalia) for 2 useful ones (Willie Green and Jason Smith)
- He switched Marcus Thornton for useful role player Carl Landry
Then the rebuild really kicked in, as the word came he could move Chris Paul.
- He got a good return for Chris Paul- Eric Gordon, Aminu, and a lotto pick (though that lotto pick became Austin Rivers, which I will touch on later).
- He turned Pondexter into Vasquez
- He cleared cap room by foisting Okafor and Ariza on the Wizards
- He picked up valuable and underrated role player Ryan Anderson in free agency
- He also sent off Jarrett Jack for nothing, which looks bad talent wise, but which was about clearing cap space, and also making sure the Hornets didn’t overachieve this season (Demps knew the Hornets still need to acquire more talent from the lotto).
- He also made the sensible move to protect his asset in Eric Gordon, which makes a lot of sense. If you’re not going to spend the money on anyone else, you may as well match the offer, and trade Gordon at some future point (if need be) so that you get good compensation for him. Once his value is higher Demps probably will trade him.
- He also acquired the underrated Robin Lopez for nothing basically. Very good pick up.

More importantly than any move Demps made, was the commitment to the team direction. The biggest threat to the Hornets once this season began was that the team would win too many games. They were more talented than a lot of people suspected, and with a decent point guard, and Davis looking very NBA ready, the last thing the team needed was a 38 win season (this sort of thing is exactly what stopped the Hornets from getting good talent after drafting Chris Paul, they got unexpectedly good too quickly). A lot of people don’t realise the Hornets at the moment are 15-20 in the games Eric Gordon plays (and he wasn’t fully healthy for all those either, some games he was coming off the bench in limited minutes. People also quickly forget that early in the season, before Anthony Davis first concussion, the team was also looking respectable (even without Gordon). Demps fixed this.
- Firstly he gave orders to limit Davis minutes to minimise injury risk. While I’m sure this was partly motivated by precautionary measures, it definitely didn’t hurt the tank effort either. Davis could have easily played 38 minutes per game this year instead of 28.
- He also didn’t rush Gordon back, and let him take his sweet time brooding over Demps matching the contract. Eventually Gordon realised he’d have to shut up and play, but the front office certainly didn’t push him to. Even today Gordon got pulled in the loss to the Jazz for no reason (except to tank). When asked after the game, Gordon said he was healthy and could have played. Demps has made sure Monty knows to pull guys in games to ensure they don't overachieve.
The cumulative effect is the Hornets are now poised for a top 5 pick, instead of a top 10 pick. Demps has also kept max cap space for the 2013 offseason, so he has a chance to improve the team, add a stud from the lotto, and then next year the team will probably be pushing for the playoffs. Hornets fans have every reason to be happy.

What goes against Demps?
1) His initial Chris Paul trade, if he did indeed engineer it, was just terrible. It looked like the exact opposite of what a franchise player trade should be in the Hornets situation. Hopefully ownership had given him some kind of instructions to win now, because the deal sucked. If that deal had been approved by ownership Demps would look very mediocre right now.
2) He drafted Austin Rivers, which seems like a bust pick. Not good, and not what one expects from the better Spurs front offices by and large.
3) Anthony Davis was an obvious pick. He doesn’t get credit for picking him, but he does get credit for the team direction his clearing house enabled- which is what let them get Unibrow in the first place. However in his defence he operates in the naturally troubling environment of a small market team, who for much of his tenure was in serious financial trouble.
jman2585
Banned User
Posts: 1,346
And1: 8
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
Location: Karma is a bitch

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#28 » by jman2585 » Sat Apr 6, 2013 10:22 am

Cavs (Chris Grant), 2010-present
Image
Grant has come in and done a really good job emulating the OKC model for team building. He came into a bad situation in which the Cavs had virtually no assets, and followed all the basic rules of team building through the lotto:
1) He got rid of vets who would hinder the process (unless they had good trade value),
2) He got rid of long term contracts, so once the team was competitive again it would have cap space to buy up players,
3) He made sure the team didn’t overachieve and win meaningless games (costing them a better draft pick, and
4) He took advantage of their competitive advantage as a bad team (so for instance, he took on the bad contract of Baron Davis in exchange for a better player, because his team didn’t need a better player, and didn’t have to worry about short term bad contracts).
5) Acquire a bunch of draft picks and young assets to build the team around, that way if they don’t all work out, you’ve got more chances to luck out.
To this he added one further emphasis, which was a lot of focus on advanced player metrics in evaluating young prospects.

Evaluating his moves he’s basically been close to flawless thus far:
- He took on Baron Davis bad (but relatively short) contract in exchange for Mo (who wasn’t going to fit into the Cavs rebuilding plans, and wasn’t that good anyhow) and Jamario Moon. As payment the Cavs got the Clippers pick, which turned out to be the #1 pick- Kyrie Irving. Huge homerun.
- He turned Delonte West (and Telfair, lolz) into Ramon Sessions. Good trade up.
- He drafted T.Thompson at #4, a pick that was criticised a lot last season, but which actually looks very good now. Thompson has turned the corner and looks like a totally different player. Another savvy pick.
- He turned stat padder Hickson into Casspi and a 1st rounder that is still owed to them. The Kings almost immediately cut Hickson he was so useless. Good sensible move here too.
- He flipped Ramon Sessions to the Lakers for a 1st rounder who could be sent this year (in which case it’ll be a really nice one). If Dwight Howard leaves next year it will also be a very nice pick (which the Lakers missing the playoffs would contribute to). Good move. Sessions meanwhile left the Lakers almost immediately.
- Waiters’ was a pick who got criticised a lot in the short term, after having risen from nowhere in the lead in to the draft, and got a lot of flack as a #4 pick. But he’s looked good, and so far looks like a decent pick at this spot. I guess passing Drummond will come back to haunt them, but at the same time if Waiters turns into an all-star it look nearly as bad as some teams passing on him (like the Raptors).
- Zeller in the 2012 draft also looks like a decent pick.
- Lastly he was able to get Speights and a future first from Memphis for basically nothing. Again, a steal. Speights looks like a solid contributor, and the 1st rounder could end up being useful.

Possible criticisms would be that he didn’t trade Varejao when his value was highest (a bit unfair, it doesn’t sound like other teams were offering a whole lot, and his injury was very unexpected). Secondly he didn’t pick up Danny Green from the 2010 Cavs roster, which now looks very stupid. He was on the staff already, he should really have had an idea that Green was useful. Instead Ferry (who had signed Green as GM) resigned and told his old buddy Popp “hey, you should give this Green kid a look”.

Going forward the Cavs are now well placed to make the playoffs next year when they stop tanking (which Grant has made sure they maximise, with all manner of “injuries” and “rest” for key players). They have a core of 3 good players going forward (one of whom is a franchise player), they’ll add another lotto pick this offseason (and maybe the Laker pick), plus they have max cap space. The Cavs should be well situated to improve from within after this offseason to become a contender within 2-3 years. All in all a great effort.
penbeast0
Senior Mod - NBA Player Comparisons
Senior Mod - NBA Player Comparisons
Posts: 30,242
And1: 9,822
Joined: Aug 14, 2004
Location: South Florida
 

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#29 » by penbeast0 » Sat Apr 6, 2013 12:58 pm

Great fun reads! Notice you don't have the Stepien Cavs on your list of the truly idiotic GMing eras (not sure who his GM actually was) but they deserve mention. Anyone who trades away multiple 1st round DCs for guys that had just been let go in the expansion draft (not to mention his other classic overpay for mediocrity moves) and has a special rule put in to prevent this behavior in the future (can no longer trade away multiple consecutive future 1sts) plus giving a free 1st to the guys who replace you because you were so effed up has to be on the HOF terrible list.

Another all-time classic short list is Buffalo trading away Moses Malone, Bob McAdoo, and Adrian Dantley in a single year for basically John Gianelli and mid first (Lonnie Shelton). John Y. Brown (same guy who folded the reasonably successful Kentucky Colonels in the ABA/NBA merger) then traded the franchise for the Celtics, if I remember right, so at least he got something right.
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
jman2585
Banned User
Posts: 1,346
And1: 8
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
Location: Karma is a bitch

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#30 » by jman2585 » Sat Apr 6, 2013 1:05 pm

Feel free to write one of them, since I've got enough other ones to do first which I feel more strongly about. If enough people contribute I thought it would be good to sticky this, to ensure easy access for people.
ThunderDan9
Veteran
Posts: 2,707
And1: 489
Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#31 » by ThunderDan9 » Sat Apr 6, 2013 1:09 pm

Excellent reading, thank you very much!

Examining the Colangelo-era(s) in Phoenix would also be a good idea, I think. I started to track the NBA at the beginning of the 90's, and it seemed that the Suns were SO active in the trading department... while they regularly maintained a high level of play... nearly always a competitive playoff team, but never got to the top!
PC Board All Time Fantasy Draft:

PG Mark Price (92-94)
SG Manu Ginobili (05-07)
SF Larry Bird (84-86)
PF Horace Grant (93-95)
C Dwight Howard (09-11)
+
Bernard King (82-84) Vlade Divac (95-97) Derek Harper (88-90) Dan Majerle (91-93) Josh Smith (10-12)
penbeast0
Senior Mod - NBA Player Comparisons
Senior Mod - NBA Player Comparisons
Posts: 30,242
And1: 9,822
Joined: Aug 14, 2004
Location: South Florida
 

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#32 » by penbeast0 » Sat Apr 6, 2013 2:19 pm

I will look for my writeups from the last time I posted a "Worst GM of all time thread" . . . for now, add to the Unseld thread that in both the Wallace for Strickland deal and the Webber for Richmond deal, in addition he took back a bad contract (Harvey Grant and Otis Thorpe) then additionally gave both aging guards big deals thus killing any cap space he might have had left (can't be much having made Juwan Howard one of the top 3 paid players in the NBA as his first move as a GM).
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
User avatar
mopper8
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 42,618
And1: 4,870
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Location: Petting elephants with the coolest dude alive

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#33 » by mopper8 » Sat Apr 6, 2013 3:50 pm

There are a couple factual errors in there about Riley that jumped out at me. 1 - he wasn't given a 10% ownership stake outright. That was an incentive that was triggered if stayed for 10 years. 2 - he signed Bowen twice. First in 95, then Bowen left for more PT, but Riles signed him again in 99 I believe, when he still was pretty much a nobody. He got his first all-D team selection in Miami, but the Heat didn't try to resign him because they were going into rebuilding mode after Zo's kidney failure.

Nice write up though
DragicTime85 wrote:[Ric Bucher] has a tiny wiener and I can prove it.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 92,332
And1: 98,146
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: Purgatory
   

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#34 » by Texas Chuck » Sat Apr 6, 2013 3:50 pm

Im curious why Donnie Nelson gets no mention?

Mavs won 50 games for 10+ straight, contender for most of that and the only constant was Dirk. And he was responsible for acquiring Nash/Dirk at the same time when his dad was technically the GM. He completely remade the team multiple times without the team ever drifting back to the lottery or even mediocrity. If Pop is going to get so much credit for the draft and rightfully so, Donnie probably should be credited for being the best trading GM of his era:

Tractor Traylor for Dirk/Nash(seperate deal but Dallas flipped the pick to Phoenix)
A pile of junk of which Eton Thomas was the best piece for Juwan
Juwan for Rafe/NVE
NVE for Jamison
Rafe for Walker
Walker for Henderson/Jet
Jamison for Stack/Devin/Damp(Laettner flipped to GSW)
Devin and junk for Kidd
JHO for Butler/Haywood/Stevenson
Damp for Tyson

Those are all major deals that Dallas "won".
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
jman2585
Banned User
Posts: 1,346
And1: 8
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
Location: Karma is a bitch

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#35 » by jman2585 » Sat Apr 6, 2013 9:28 pm

1) Riley's situation was reported as a 10% stake at the time in an article I read from 1995, however the article may have not mentioned the minutae of the deal,
2) I know he signed Bowen multiple times, but the idea of these things isn't to mention every transation made per se (or some people would have 10 day contract after 10 day contract) but to mention the key parts. The key part in that instance was "he found Bowen, but then also let him go".

As for Donn(ie) Nelson, his name has subsequently been added, though his write up is still coming. He's still in the below elite tier, for factors I'll cover when it is posted (for instance, he spent an awful lot of money that elite GM's often couldn't, for arguably worse results 9 times out of 10)
jman2585
Banned User
Posts: 1,346
And1: 8
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
Location: Karma is a bitch

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#36 » by jman2585 » Sun Apr 7, 2013 1:44 am

Mitch Kupchak
Image
It was with considerable reluctance that I put Mitch in the “elite” GM tier, and I should emphasise that he is by far the weakest GM in this category. I find Mitch to be quite overrated in a lot of respects, and his last offseason is pretty much the only thing putting him in here. This is ironic, because it’s also the thing which could potentially knock him down a whole category this offseason, if Dwight leaves, and the Lakers implode. For now though, I’ll judge Mitch on the status quo.

Early years
It’s fair to say Mitch didn’t do very much when he first got to the Lakers. He inherited the 2000 title team, and didn’t do a whole lot to improve it to be honest. He moved Rice for 1 year of a still serviceable Ho Grant, which was a good move in the circumstances (Rice having killed his value), though the pick he gave up to do it was a little much (and turned into Tinsley- worse still Tony Parker and Gilbert Arenas were the next 2 picks). Other than that Mitch basically did nothing whatever to improve the 3-peat Lakers. His first round picks were all failures too- Chris Jefferies into Kareem Rush was nothing notable, nor was Brian Cook. Walton is a pretty decent pick up in the 2nd round, but he’s a guy you want as your 12th man in ideal circumstances.

For a team able to spend so much more on scouts and player development he didn’t really do anything with those resources. In contrast teams like the Spurs were both superior in international scouting, and also ran their own D-League team to great effect later on. Both were innovations at the time. Mitch didn’t do anything to innovate. His attempt to sign guys like PJ Brown as free agents was a pretty big wake up call for him. PJ Brown was noted in the media to say afterwards that he wasn‘t very impressed with their pitch of him taking less money for the “privilege of being a Laker”. I mean the guy signed a contract for $8 mill a year that offseason (over 4 years), offering him the MLE (then less than $5 mill) was pretty insulting. He let Horry walk too, which looked smart with Karl Malone coming in (and after the 2003 playoffs, where Horry played badly), but the Spurs would get quite a lot out of Horry still, while Karl Malone had injuries that year, and was gone after 2004. It looked like a coup at the time, but in reality Payton and Karl were done, so while there was no harm in Mitch signing these guys (anybody would have done it at the time), it wasn’t a move that really looked ahead of the curve (the exact opposite given how badly it worked out). A lot of the credit for recruiting Karl and GP belonged to Shaq anyway, who had basically talked them into it. This created further problems, because Shaq claimed Mitch had promised to max him out if he brought in Karl Malone and GP, and Mitch obviously didn’t. When you mislead players (or make them feel they’ve been misled) you hurt your credibility a lot. It becomes much harder to recruit guys with a wink wink that you’ll take care of them in the long term (like the Heat did twice with Haslem) when you’ve got your stars accusing you of lying to them (something Kobe accused the Lakers of several years later when he demanded a trade).

While there were several occasions where players felt Mitch had lied to them, or insulted them, I give Mitch credit during this period for being good at handling player egos. It’s not easy GM’ing a team with Shaq and Kobe on it at the same time, and Mitch seems to have managed to stave off their inevitable split for a few years at least. He was smart enough not to trade Kobe, as Phil Jackson had advised him to do, but he certainly missed the boat in terms of trading Shaq while his value was highest. I guess he had no choice (he had to try and win the 2004 season, and then when the 2004 offseason came he had no time left), but it was still unfortunate. If he’d moved Shaq after 2003 maybe he could have gotten a significantly better package back. By waiting he inevitably gave Shaq leverage to control his destiny. Keeping Kobe wasn’t exactly an easy choice either. The guy had his own free agency coming up, he was very difficult to deal with, and he’d just cost them the 2004 title with his selfish shot jacking and poor team play. 1-2 years after he traded Shaq it looked like Mitch might have made a big mistake, as Kobe couldn’t get anywhere by himself, and Shaq was suddenly appreciated by fans who had never liked him at all. Kobe’s rape trial, and inability to get along with a GOAT coach didn’t help matters. But given how Shaq was getting old, he clearly made the right decision.

He also was understood what some GM’s and owners don’t- that this is just business. He rehired Phil for the 2006 season despite Phil having ripped Kobe and the organisation in his book, because it was good for business. Organisations need to avoid petty stuff that hurts you (like Gilbert’s dumb letter to Lebron, or Cuban’s constant public gaffes). Holding on to the past isn’t constructive, and it was both necessary and sensible to do things like retiring Shaq’s jersey the other day (in spite of some of the problems he caused). It took him a long time to get Kareem a statue, which was a bad look PR wise, but even that’s now been fixed.

Post title years
While I credit Mitch for making the right decision to trade Shaq (or lose Kobe 2 years later) I can’t say I thought a whole lot of the package he got for him. It amounted to Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, and a pick that became a so-so back-up point guard(given how washed up Brian Grant was he was just a bad contract they took back in return). Shaq made it hard for them of course, he was threatening to miss the 2005 season if he got traded somewhere he didn’t like (and have toe surgery), but I find it hard to believe more couldn’t have been acquired. It was a pretty sub-optimal deal. Worse, he then sent Butler off for Kwame, which was sub-optimal value again.

During this post Shaq period, Mitch made some pretty mediocre decisions on the whole.
- Vujacic was a meh first rounder
- He traded the pick that would become Rajon Rondo just 2 years later for Chris Mihm (who was soon finished by injuries) and Atkins (who played 1 year in LA). Looks very bad in hindsight, and trading all your first rounders when you’re not sure how good you’ll be going forward isn’t very smart.
- Bynum and Turiaf were great finds at #10 and #37 respectively.
- Making Smush Parker your starting point guard once Atkins left wasn’t very smart though, and one can’t help but think he should have done better. He made the right call letting Fisher go for big money (and got him back in the end), but he should have done more to address this spot, rather than rely on Fisher buying out his contract in the future.
- Crittenton was a pretty poor pick with the #19 spot. Wilson Chandler, Tiago Splitter, Rudy Fernando, Afflalo, Landry, etc were all available from here.
- While he picked up Marc Gasol in the 2nd round of the 2007 draft, he obviously didn’t think much of him since at the time he was perceived as a throw in to the Pau Gasol deal. Indeed, Kobe remarked in the media at the time (in 2008):
“In hindsight, we probably didn’t have to give him up to get Pau,” Bryant said. “We should have kept Marc, too.”

http://lakernation.com/kobe-we-should-h ... arc-gasol/
He said that elsewhere too, in words to the effect of “it seems like Memphis didn’t really want him to make the deal happen”. Memphis didn’t refute this notion with their statements at the time, which focused on how they had made the deal because Kwame was “the biggest expiring available”. The Pau Gasol trade as a whole was an obvious win for Mitch, but it was an idiotic move from Memphis, since:
a) Nobody really expected Marc Gasol to be good at the time (and nobody would have been surprised if he wasn’t)
b) The Grizz made the deal primarily for an expiring contract, not for non-valued assets like Marc Gasol (and an unproven Euro for a franchise player like Pau was at the time is always a dumb move), and
c) The Grizzlies turned around and gave Zach Randolph (a worse player than Pau) a bigger contract less than 2 years later. I meant, what the hell was the point of not paying Pau because you’re saving money, just to turn around and pay Zach? Really bad logic. To this day I have no idea why the Grizzlies made this trade, and since I can’t prove Mitch has photos of the Grizzlies owner with hookers I can’t give him much credit for it. Other teams didn’t even really get a chance to bid, the Grizzlies just called Mitch up and offered him Pau, when many teams would have given far more up (and maybe they wouldn’t have had an expiring contract as big, but who cares as long as the Grizz save a little money and get back more talent).
Of course since Marc is now a low level franchise player himself, a lot of people have produced revisionist history that this deal was in some way fair, but it really wasn’t at all. Still, this was the move that saved the Lakers, since Kobe had previously been demanding a trade, and the franchise was going nowhere without it. He also made some other good moves around this time:
- Got Ariza for cheap
- Signed solid role player Radmanovic (though got rid of him for Adam Morrison and Shannon Brown 2 years later. Eww)
- They sold their 2009 1st rounder for cash basically, which is a way of saying there is nobody you like at all in the draft from that point on. Given they passed on D.Blair, N.DeColo, Budinger, D.Green, M.Thornton, D.Cunningham and even Toney (the guy they traded), who would all become between useful and excellent role players, that clearly wasn’t very smart. I don’t like how much Mitch blindly trades 1st rounders for trivial upgrades. Sure, 2011 1st rounder Jujuan Johnson was a bust, but that pick could have netted Chandler Parsons, Jimmy Butler, Corey Joseph (who looks like he can become a solid back up PG), Norris Cole, or Lavoy Allen. In extreme cases it ends up costing them guys like Rondo.
- S.Blake, M.Barnes were both good free agent acquisitions, no matter how much Lakers fans have hated on them with unrealistic expectations.
- I don’t blame him for Metta; Ariza was asking for alot of money, and Artest helped them win the title in 2010.

Overall though you have to give Mitch some credit for the 2008-10 finals runs, and generally upgrading the talent on the roster. It wasn’t exactly flawless or close to optimal, and without the Pau trade being thrown into his lap he’d look pretty awful, but he ended up with good results and that’s a big part of what GM’s are judged on (along with the crucial context to those results- like having great assets to begin with, having natural market advantages, etc). Most GM’s lacked Mitch’s advantages though, they couldn’t spend nearly as much, had small markets and didn’t start off with 2 such valuable guys to build around (and trade in due course). Compare Mitch and Petrie from 95-04 only and Petrie eats him alive with his track record. Unfortunately, ownership problems or note, the last 9 years still happened for Petrie.

Post title years
As the Lakers team soon became supplanted by other stacked teams, Mitch had to find a way to move forward. I give him credit for almost being able to get Chris Paul, even though I have no idea how Demps could agree with such a deal. That would have been a a really good move. I also like his acquisition of guys like Jordan Hill and Earl Clark (as a throw in no less). He paid too much to rent Sessions, but Sessions wasn’t a bad option to try out. In a few years that pick he gave up could look bad though. I also like that he dealt with the Odom situation quickly and moved him for something useful in a trade exception. Jamison is a bit of a nothing free agent acquisition.

This brings us to the 3 big moves that he will be judged on going forward, and which (for the moment) have him at the bottom of the elite GM tier.

The Steve Nash Trade
On the face of it, this was a huge win. Nash almost carried some scrubs to the Western playoffs in 2012, and he had a good physical condition coming in. This is exactly the sort of thing you’ve been saving the trade exception for (and the new CBA means you won’t be using trade exceptions to sign and trade guys while over the cap anymore, so Mitch should enjoy it while he can). On the other hand, it’s reminiscent of the Gary Payton trade in some ways too, where both are so old you have to think they might finally break down. Nash of course got hurt immediately, hasn’t looked like he fits next to Kobe (much more worrying) and will cost you a lot with the crazy new luxury tax (but hey, it’s ownerships money). More important than the money though is what you gave up, which seemed trivial at the time, but which doesn’t anymore. If the Lakers miss the playoffs this year they give a lotto pick to the Suns. Ouch. If Dwight leaves in free agency, and the team slumps (short term) then 1st rounders are suddenly going to be a lot more important. The Lakers gave up what might end up being two nice 1st round picks, and two nice 2nd round picks. This trade could really haunt the Lakers in the future, even though for the moment it still looks ok. The question of how Nash fits next to Kobe with the ball out of his hands was asked at the time, and there still isn’t an answer. If this experiment goes badly Mitch should be punished for acquiring guys who didn’t fit together.

The Dwight trade
Obviously you have to do a move like this 10 times out of 10, and it was well played by Mitch to come in and take advantage of Dwight’s indecisiveness and steal him from Brooklyn (where he looked certain to go). And Bynum’s injuries have made this deal look even better. Complex 4 team trades that work are hard to put together, so he deserves credit for this.

This deal can still blow up for Mitch however, which is why it’s worrying that right now I’ve put Mitch into the shallow end of the elite GM’s largely because this move tips him in. Dwight could leave, and if he does Mitch has unquestionably F#@$’d up. The handling of Dwight could have been a lot better this season, and Mitch has to take his share of the blame for that (especially since he hired the coach, and can fire him). Mitch has created an atmosphere in which Kobe can easily cause a coach to be fired, and that in turn means you’re always going to have an element of “media circus” in LA. It was true of the 3-peat Lakers, and nobody minded it much, but in situations like this year you remember why smart front offices (like the Spurs) create an environment in which nothing negative escapes the locker room (if it exists at all), nothing is leaked to the press, nobody is able to throw their team mates under a bus in the media, etc.

Of course Kobe and others are to blame too for these childish antics, but Mitch has empowered Kobe to behave like this in the way they’ve treated him. He got a GOAT coach fired, and then after that no coach would cross him (and even Phil gave up trying to control him fully). That has led to problems. Bad leadership, especially on D, and unnecessary media fights. How many times do you hear other stars call out their own team mates in the press in respectable front offices? Not often. Yet it feels like it happens every year in LA, and Kobe telling Pau to “put his big boy pants on” after yet another year in which he’d been asked to change his role (quite unfairly, since what he used to do worked fine) was not helpful. Calling Dwight on faking the seriousness of his injuries is not helpful.

If Dwight leaves, if Bynum suddenly looks healthy and rips it up for the next few years, and/or if the Lakers go into a slump (and give up valuable draft picks they’ve been trading away like candy for their recent acquisitions like Nash, Sessions and Dwight) then this can turn into a catastrophe. For now though, it’s a big win.

The coaching debacle
I don’t think a lot needs to be said here about D'Antoni. Regardless of how ownership was involved, Mitch is the GM of the team, and when you hire a coach whose game plan is to make your 7-0 all-star big man shoot 3’s (something he’s never done in his whole career), you have to take some blame for that. This could cost them the season, and worse it could cost them Dwight. This could go down as one of the worst decisions the Lakers have ever made. Mitch definitely needs to be accountable for picking Mike Brown when Adelman was available (and who wasn’t even considered a candidate by the Lakers!). Just to remind people, even with all the injuries the Wolves were 16-15 this year before Adelman took a leave of absence to care for his wifes health. In games Adelman has actually coached he's led the injury decimated Wolves to a 28-38 record. He is a vastly superior and more adaptable and experienced coach than D'Antoni (almost the opposite of adaptable) or Mike Brown (good at D, hopeless on O and only runs Iso's)

For the moment, Mitch is better than a good GM, but he isn’t truly elite, and he could potentially look like a really mediocre one depending on how the next few years pan out (especially this offseason). I think one of the most important things he needs to do going forward is to get a new coach who will press Kobe to either accept a more limited role for the good of the franchise, and to address when Kobe is going to retire. Kobe can’t keep leading the NBA in shots and having a top 3 usage, especially since it will create problems with Dwight (who the Lakers need to be the face of their franchise going forward), something I knew before Dwight held up a box score and complained about his lack of shots in public. Kobe needs to do what guys like David Robinson needed to do when Tim Duncan came along- accept a smaller role for the good of the team, and become less vocal in the media, in an effort to try and improve the media circus LA has created.
User avatar
Doormatt
RealGM
Posts: 17,438
And1: 2,013
Joined: Mar 07, 2011
   

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#37 » by Doormatt » Sun Apr 7, 2013 1:21 pm

i dont understand the New Orleans thing like at all. if anything theyve made more questionable moves than good ones. Anthony Davis was an obvious pick but holy **** that Rivers pick was bad. youd think if youre going to be praising a GM hed have the basic skills to see the obvious red flags a player like Rivers had in college and coming into the pros. also not really sure how to feel about Eric Gordon. i dont consider it a good thing that they area paying a good chunk of money to someone that is both playing awful and/or clearly does not want to play for them. also hes incredibly injury prone. really how is anything about Gordon a positive? if he really didnt want to play for NO and he isnt exactly iron man, why would they resign him? i mean you could say they had to, but hes been playing poorly, injured, and unhappy there. theres really no good way to spin that. also

i really like Ryan Anderson though and i think hes on a great contract, so thats a plus i guess. thats really the only good thing i can point too. yeah bringing in role players like Lopez and Vasquez is nice but i wouldnt really consider that beyond face value.

i mean the hornets have done a good job of not entirely **** things up like say, the raptors seem to do, but they havent done anything other than draft davis (which again, was obvious) to merit being better managed than other lottery level teams.

props for writing all this stuff tho.
#doorgek
jman2585
Banned User
Posts: 1,346
And1: 8
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
Location: Karma is a bitch

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#38 » by jman2585 » Sun Apr 7, 2013 1:39 pm

Only bad pick so far is Austin Rivers though. One pick is disappointing, but it's not a trend. As for Gordon, think of it this way. The Hornets have to spend $50 mill each year (gradually going up prolly), if they don't they just reimburse the NBA the extra they didn't spend. So Gordon's contract isn't costing them much. This year they're spending 64 mill, but over 13 of that belongs to bought out Rashard Lewis. Next year and the year after they're committed to 35 and 24 mill, and it'll be tough to get free agents to come. There's no real harm, and they retain an asset they can sell later when the value is better (rather than losing it for nothing). Plus the team actually looks good when Gordon is healthy (as I noted), he was held out of today's game to ensure they lost (just like unibrow's minutes are being limited in part to ensure it doesn't interfere with the tank).
User avatar
Doormatt
RealGM
Posts: 17,438
And1: 2,013
Joined: Mar 07, 2011
   

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#39 » by Doormatt » Sun Apr 7, 2013 2:05 pm

i disagree hes looked bad, he looks like he doesnt want to play for the hornets.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... nM2c#gid=0

hes at -2.1 this year, which i really dont see how to spin that any other way than bad. his on/off numbers look better than they actually are because hes replacing the truly terrible Rivers. his boxscore stats are way below all of his career numbers. its not about sample size, theres not a single stat in which he isnt doing poorly/career low in. hes pretty much bad whenever he plays, whether hes healthy or not.

teams are not going to be looking to give the hornets much of anything of value for someone who has played 45 games in 2 years and has shown to let his attitude about where hes playing effect the basketball side of things. i mean i get why they gave him a contract, but i dont necessarily think it was a good move.
#doorgek
User avatar
ronnymac2
RealGM
Posts: 11,004
And1: 5,073
Joined: Apr 11, 2008
   

Re: The General Manager Analysis Project 

Post#40 » by ronnymac2 » Sun Apr 7, 2013 7:11 pm

Damn, Isiah was so bad for so long that I completely forgot about how clueless Layden was.

This...

6. Throwing 3 years and $24 million at Clarence "3 neck chins" Weatherspoon (when they already have a gazzillion PF's) when a comparable PF at the time (Gary Trent) was signed to a $1.5 million one year contract.

...made me literally laugh out loud. That's awful.
Pay no mind to the battles you've won
It'll take a lot more than rage and muscle
Open your heart and hands, my son
Or you'll never make it over the river

Return to Player Comparisons


cron