Around the nba part 7

[Knicks_Fan2]

Lebron does not hold back Wade.

Lebron makes sure Wade stays efficient, and probably extended his career an extra year or two.

And, even in that case study, where there is only one player with high usage--and not four as in the previous hypothetical--Wade's scoring has certainly dipped in his years post lebron. Efficiency has increased as it would in any other scenario with better players since you only need to take better shots but I certainly believe the volume scoring stats would go down.

[knicksnyk]

LMAO now you are just straight up lying.

Lin ball handling rating 23.8
felton ball handling 18.6

Clearly if Lin is one of the worst ball handlers you have ever seen felton is obviously trash.

Stats and more stats. Never watch games do you? Just check the Jeremy Lin box scores to validate your existence right?

LOL I use facts to back up my point as well as watch the games on league pass. you on the other hand use your bull **** eye test which I wouldnt trust if my life depended on it.

[Never Wrong]

LOL I use facts to back up my point as well as watch the games on league pass. you on the other hand use your bull **** eye test which I wouldnt trust if my life depended on it.

Those aren't facts. Those are made-up stats randomly calculated. And you pick and choose which stats you use with no context attached to it as long as it props up your idol.

[Thugger HBC]

Put Harden, LeBron, Kobe, Durant on same team. I guarantee their scoring averages would plummet from their current (real) ones.

At the end of the day, there is only one ball on the court. If one guy has it, there's nothing much (appearing on the stats) the other 4 guys can do offensively.

Actually that team would score more, they would feed off each other.

They would literally pick their nights on who gets to go off.

Two of those guys have players who dominate the ball quite a bit as well and their games are still on pace.

Yes, they would score more as a team, but individually no way they maintain their current (real) scoring averages. Case in point, Michael Jordan (career 30.1 PPG) only averaged 20.2 PPG in All Star games, Kobe only averaged 20.0 PPG in All Star games. We also witnessed it that everytime Big 3 formed (Pierce-Allen-KG in Boston, and LeBron-Wade-Bosh in Miami) their scoring averages went down in their first year together compared to previous year before they came together on same team.

Yes they will score 120-130-140 as a team, but their individual stats will take a step back. It's common sense really, there is only 1 ball on the court. You either have it or you don't.

When Harden has the ball to dribble, to create for himself, to create for others, he is taking that very role from Lin, taking his strengths away. Unfortunately for Lin, he's not the type who catches and shoots like Rip Hamilton or Fisher.

Did you just use the all star game to prove your point?

But here's what your missing....

Each player would be more efficient than what they already are, their scoring will not take a dip, not those guys.

Harden might be the exception because he isn't on their level.

Wade and leBron are at their averages within two points yet both players are career highs in efficiency as is their team.

You add Durant and Kobe to that and it get even more silly.

[JBreezeNY]

Thugger & Never Wrong y'all got a long night arguing with those two posters lol, I'm out of here to a club to get pissy drunk. Enjoy yourselves fellas

[j4remi]

John Wall in his return has reminded me of D-Rose a bit...not even gonna front about it. Obviously not THAT good yet but man...athletic freak check, a bit out of control but maturing check, unstoppable when he hits the gas check.

His numbers in March were fantastic and he's just had games (like the 47 he dropped on Memphis) that are jawdropping. Great comeback for him after a lot of people wrote him off WAY too early.

I couldn't stand his style of play at all...but always acknowledged that his limitations were mostly mental..i think the time off helped him get his head right.

And how the hell is a Lin discussion over shadowing his brilliance in what looks like a soon to be victory over the Pacers!? That is far more important than anything Rockets related.

[moabu08]

Wizards beating up on the pacers tonight lets go about time we got some help

[GettinitDone]

Lebron does not hold back Wade.

Lebron makes sure Wade stays efficient, and probably extended his career an extra year or two.

I would say Wade is happier playing with LeBron because he's all about winning.

But if you WERE strictly a Wade fan, you'd probably not be happy. Wade was the KING in Miami, he was GOD. Now, the Heat belong to LeBron. Bosh was the star in Toronto, franchise player, but now he's known more for his three pointers and on court interview golds than his ability to dominate as a 20 and 10 player.

There's no question LeBron holds them back and vice versa... they're more limited as opposed to going all by themselves as the main guy. Are they happier together? Yes, they're winning, but doesn't mean they didn't have to sacrifice things such as individual stats. They're aware of that before coming together.

It's also why younger players want spotlight on their own, e.g. T-Mac leaving VC to be the main man in Orlando. Harden himself leaving his own buddies KD/ Westbrook to be the main man in Houston. Did Harden want to be a career 12ppg scorer? Maybe, if he still gets paid the same. But had he stayed in OKC, knowing what he's able to do in Houston, wouldn't you agree KD/ Westbrook "kinda" held him back from his full potential? Absolutely.

---

Coming back to Lin, the topic of this debate, I can use this logic to say, yes, Harden's game holds Lin's game back. How can Lin make decisions WITH the ball when in actuality he does NOT have it, stands in corner, and is WAITING for it?.

[knicksnyk]

LOL I use facts to back up my point as well as watch the games on league pass. you on the other hand use your bull **** eye test which I wouldnt trust if my life depended on it.

Those aren't facts. Those are made-up stats randomly calculated. And you pick and choose which stats you use with no context attached to it as long as it props up your idol.

LOL Here is my source so that you can see that I didn't make up these stats or randomly calculate them. ANd if the facts said that Lin was a inferior ball handler to lin would you call them made up? Just like the facts say that lin is more turn over prone than ray. I don't dispute them because these are undeniable facts.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12NYK1.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1213/12HOU4.HTM

[Thugger HBC]

Lebron does not hold back Wade.

Lebron makes sure Wade stays efficient, and probably extended his career an extra year or two.

And, even in that case study, where there is only one player with high usage--and not four as in the previous hypothetical--Wade's scoring has certainly dipped in his years post lebron. Efficiency has increased as it would in any other scenario with better players since you only need to take better shots but I certainly believe the volume scoring stats would go down.

Wade plays less minutes therefore he loses a whopping 2 points.

Everything else is on par... rebounind assists steals ...everything.

And actually both player usage has gone down in Miami while maintaining what did for their careers.

Care to explain that?

[god shammgod]

pacers playing with way less energy then the wiz. you'd think this game didn't matter to them.

[Never Wrong]

LOL I use facts to back up my point as well as watch the games on league pass. you on the other hand use your bull **** eye test which I wouldnt trust if my life depended on it.

Those aren't facts. Those are made-up stats randomly calculated. And you pick and choose which stats you use with no context attached to it as long as it props up your idol.

LOL Here is my source so that you can see that I didn't make up these stats or randomly calculate them. ANd if the facts said that Lin was a inferior ball handler to lin would you call them made up? Just like the facts say that lin is more turn over prone than ray. I don't dispute them because these are undeniable facts.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12NYK1.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1213/12HOU4.HTM

The point is you don't know what it calculates. You just ran around looking for a stat that favored your idol. You don't even know how to interpret the number. God you're dense.

[Knicks_Fan2]

John Wall in his return has reminded me of D-Rose a bit...not even gonna front about it. Obviously not THAT good yet but man...athletic freak check, a bit out of control but maturing check, unstoppable when he hits the gas check.

His numbers in March were fantastic and he's just had games (like the 47 he dropped on Memphis) that are jawdropping. Great comeback for him after a lot of people wrote him off WAY too early.

I couldn't stand his style of play at all...but always acknowledged that his limitations were mostly mental..i think the time off helped him get his head right.

And how the hell is a Lin discussion over shadowing his brilliance in what looks like a soon to be victory over the Pacers!? That is far more important than anything Rockets related.

Best part of his improvement has been his ability to consistently hit the elbow jumper. Makes him extremely difficult to guard given his speed.

[knicksnyk]

John Wall in his return has reminded me of D-Rose a bit...not even gonna front about it. Obviously not THAT good yet but man...athletic freak check, a bit out of control but maturing check, unstoppable when he hits the gas check.

His numbers in March were fantastic and he's just had games (like the 47 he dropped on Memphis) that are jawdropping. Great comeback for him after a lot of people wrote him off WAY too early.

I couldn't stand his style of play at all...but always acknowledged that his limitations were mostly mental..i think the time off helped him get his head right.

And how the hell is a Lin discussion over shadowing his brilliance in what looks like a soon to be victory over the Pacers!? That is far more important than anything Rockets related.

LOL sorry about the lin discussion that is my fault. people are just talking stupidness & i refuse to be silent. also I responded to your wall rose comparison. LOL I dsiagree.

[ag3]

Wizards!!!!!!!!!!!

[god shammgod]

is that the wall we'll see going forward though or is this the "i want a max contract" wall ? hard to tell.

[Jay10]

pacers playing with way less energy then the wiz. you'd think this game didn't matter to them.

this is around the time when teams start tanking to get favorable match-ups in the playoffs.

[Thugger HBC]

Lebron does not hold back Wade.

Lebron makes sure Wade stays efficient, and probably extended his career an extra year or two.

I would say Wade is happier playing with LeBron because he's all about winning.

But if you WERE strictly a Wade fan, you'd probably not be happy. Wade was the KING in Miami, he was GOD. Now, the Heat belong to LeBron. Bosh was the star in Toronto, franchise player, but now he's known more for his three pointers and on court interview golds than his ability to dominate as a 20 and 10 player.

There's no question LeBron holds them back and vice versa... they're more limited as opposed to going all by themselves as the main guy. Are they happier together? Yes, they're winning, but doesn't mean they didn't have to sacrifice things such as individual stats. They're aware of that before coming together.

It's also why younger players want spotlight on their own, e.g. T-Mac leaving VC to be the main man in Orlando. Harden himself leaving his own buddies KD/ Westbrook to be the main man in Houston. Did Harden want to be a career 12ppg scorer? Maybe, if he still gets paid the same. But had he stayed in OKC, knowing what he's able to do in Houston, wouldn't you agree KD/ Westbrook "kinda" held him back from his full potential? Absolutely.

That there is the meat and potatoes of YOUR issue, the players dont think like that, at least the smart ones dont.

[god shammgod]

pacers playing with way less energy then the wiz. you'd think this game didn't matter to them.

this is around the time when teams start tanking to get favorable match-ups in the playoffs.

it's too early to tell though. everyone is so close.

[Jay10]

harden gets to the free throw line whenever he wants.