Suns vs Rox

[phrazbit]

http://deadspin.com/houston-beats-phoen ... -471897828

Here is video of it. Without a doubt its still above the cylinder when he slaps it away (even though it did look as though it was going to miss). Quite the play there for Jermaine, not only did he goal tend twice (you cant stick your hand through the netting) but could have been called for pushing off Asik before jumping for the ball.

[Revived]

LMAO on another forum that I'm in, the Warriors fans, Jazz fans and Lakers fans are all hating on the Suns big time cause of how obviously their tanking!

Hahaha this is too funny!

[rsavaj]

Savvy veteran move by O'Neal. We are literally inventing new ways to lose.

[RunDogGun]

http://deadspin.com/houston-beats-phoenix-thanks-to-jermaine-oneals-buzze-471897828

Here is video of it. Without a doubt its still above the cylinder when he slaps it away (even though it did look as though it was going to miss). Quite the play there for Jermaine, not only did he goal tend twice (you cant stick your hand through the netting) but could have been called for pushing off Asik before jumping for the ball.

Without a doubt? Every replay shows that the ball hits the rim BEFORE Jo tips it. The ball was on the way out towards the court in every replay that doesn't have the ball blocking the angle. If it is coming out, and then JO tips it (which is very clear in every replay, except the angle blocked), there would be a doubt that it is over the cylinder.

I'm not saying it isn't close, nor they got the call wrong (for me the fingers in the net hurts any argument saying it wasn't goal tending), I'm just saying, there is enough evidence to say there is a doubt that it was still in the cylinder. Unless there is an above camera angle that I haven't seen yet. If there is, then no big deal. But if JO didn't hit the net first, I "doubt" it would have been called.

[phrazbit]

ABOVE the cylinder is what matters, yeah, it hits the rim (so its obviously above the rim at that point) and O'Neal hits it after it rises up about 2 inches. Its goaltending. Not only has it barley risen up from hitting the rim but O'Neal has the net in his hand as he hits it, which IMO makes it pretty clear its still above the rim. Looking over all the angles in that clip I dont see any that make me think it was not still over the cylinder and the full court view it looks really bad.

But either way, like you said, O'Neal hitting the net is the more obvious violation, and for all we know its what the refs based their call on.

[RunDogGun]

ABOVE the cylinder is what matters, yeah, it hits the rim (so its obviously above the rim at that point) and O'Neal hits it after it rises up about 2 inches. Its goaltending. Not only has it barley risen up from hitting the rim but O'Neal has the net in his hand as he hits it, which IMO makes it pretty clear its still above the rim. Looking over all the angles in that clip I dont see any that make me think it was not still over the cylinder and the full court view it looks really bad.

But either way, like you said, O'Neal hitting the net is the more obvious violation, and for all we know its what the refs based their call on.

You can hit the net, you just can't touch the ball from within the cylinder. JO clearly hits the ball from outside the cylinder, so that still inst the violation, I was just saying it would be tough challenging it once someone say the net touch.

I think, we both see the ball hit the rim, and looking at the angle, (I hope) it is clear that the ball is coming off, not up from the rim. It's also seems clear that after the ball hits the rim, it comes off the rim between 1-3 inches (you said two, sounds fair to me). So there could be a doubt to where that two inches come into play. A top view would show this, and I have yet to see a top view angle. If you can provide this, then I can conclude how far off and out (which you even said you thought it was coming off (or missing), but until that angle is provided, we don't know if he touched it within the cylinder.

[phrazbit]

I think, we both see the ball hit the rim, and looking at the angle, (I hope) it is clear that the ball is coming off, not up from the rim. It's also seems clear that after the ball hits the rim, it comes off the rim between 1-3 inches (you said two, sounds fair to me). So there could be a doubt to where that two inches come into play. A top view would show this, and I have yet to see a top view angle. If you can provide this, then I conclude how for off and out (which said you thought it was coming off (or missing), but until that angle is provided, we don't know if he touched it within the cylinder.

I agree, it looked like it was going to miss, but it also looked like it was going to bounce UP and away and I have a hard time believing that in just a few inches up upward motion it would have completely cleared the cylinder.

In the final few seconds of that replay you can see O'Neal's fingers in slow mo go into the cylinder and he hits it a fraction of a second later. I agree it was going to miss but it does not matter, you cant stick your hand there, and given the clock situation it was a really dumb play by O'Neal. I know its all happening quickly but you'd THINK a vet like O'Neal upon hearing the horn would instinctively pull his hands back and ensure he does not interfere, rather than the opposite.

[RunDogGun]

According to the rules, (subset c), it says," For goaltending to occur, the ball, in the judgement of the official, must have a chance to score." The ref said it did, I guess?

So, it could even be ruled a no gaoltend just by that part of the rule, right?

[dunleavyjr]

LOL @ O'neal. I mean, what was he thinking?

[RunDogGun]

I think, we both see the ball hit the rim, and looking at the angle, (I hope) it is clear that the ball is coming off, not up from the rim. It's also seems clear that after the ball hits the rim, it comes off the rim between 1-3 inches (you said two, sounds fair to me). So there could be a doubt to where that two inches come into play. A top view would show this, and I have yet to see a top view angle. If you can provide this, then I conclude how for off and out (which said you thought it was coming off (or missing), but until that angle is provided, we don't know if he touched it within the cylinder.

I agree, it looked like it was going to miss, but it also looked like it was going to bounce UP and away and I have a hard time believing that in just a few inches up upward motion it would have completely cleared the cylinder.

In the final few seconds of that replay you can see O'Neal's fingers in slow mo go into the cylinder and he hits it a fraction of a second later. I agree it was going to miss but it does not matter, you cant stick your hand there, and given the clock situation it was a really dumb play by O'Neal. I know its all happening quickly but you'd THINK a vet like O'Neal upon hearing the horn would instinctively pull his hands back and ensure he does not interfere, rather than the opposite.

I didn't see JO's fingers hit the ball from within. You must have an angle view I do not. Could you please provide a link that clearly shows this.(not trying to be rude, just don't see that angle. Now if we had a top view, we could clearly see where and how JO touches the ball.

[phrazbit]

I didn't see JO's fingers hit the ball from within. You must have an angle view I do not. Could you please provide a link that clearly shows this.(not trying to be rude, just don't see that angle. Now if we had a top view, we could clearly see where and how JO touches the ball.

At the 1:36 mark of that video in slow mo I think its pretty obvious you can see his hand over the rim (or even touching it) and he hits the ball a fraction of a second later... Maybe you think his hand of not over the cylinder there but it looks pretty bad.

[RunSunRun]

Too funny, talk about a bizarre way to lose a game. Since the Cavs choked and lost, it was fitting that we stay just in front of them for draft positioning with that play,

[RunDogGun]

I didn't see JO's fingers hit the ball from within. You must have an angle view I do not. Could you please provide a link that clearly shows this.(not trying to be rude, just don't see that angle. Now if we had a top view, we could clearly see where and how JO touches the ball.

At the 1:36 mark of that video in slow mo I think its pretty obvious you can see his hand over the rim (or even touching it) and he hits the ball a fraction of a second later... Maybe you think his hand of not over the cylinder there but it looks pretty bad.

That angle doesn't show where JO touches the ball. Again without a top angle shot, there is no way to tell where JO hits the ball after the second rim hit, with regards to the cylinder. Remember, it hits once(back of the rim first)then hits it again (front of the rim), and then JO tips it. But that angle doesn't clearly show any fingers inside the rim.)

Oh well, I don't need to waste an hour arguing this. I'll stand with the call on the court, but clearly object to any current evidence that shows that he hits it within the cylinder, and if that ball had any way of scoring before JO touches it. If it didn't have a chance to go in, and JO doesn't tough it from within (still haven't seen an angle that proves that), then it shouldn't be goaltending, according to official NBA rules.

[phrazbit]

Fine... yes, there is not a straight over the top cam to show exactly where he hit, but you have the ball that come down and hit the rim, you have his hand over and within the rim and in the time it took the ball to rise 2 inches off the rim O'Neal hits it. IMO, it takes a real stretch of the imagination to think its possibly cleared the cylinder.

Maaaaaaaybe it did, as you said there is no absolute smoking gun, but O'Neal should not have even put it to a question. Beverley jumps up with O'Neal but at the horn you see Beverley's arms pull back because at that point the only thing he could do is interfere, somehow the old vet O'Neal did not have that instinct kick in.

[RunDogGun]

Fine... yes, there is not a straight over the top cam to show exactly where he hit, but you have the ball that come down and hit the rim, you have his hand over and within the rim and in the time it took the ball to rise 2 inches off the rim O'Neal hits it. IMO, it takes a real stretch of the imagination to think its possibly cleared the cylinder.

Maaaaaaaybe it did, as you said there is no absolute smoking gun, but O'Neal should not have even put it to a question. Beverley jumps up with O'Neal but at the horn you see Beverley's arms pull back because at that point the only thing he could do is interfere, somehow the old vet O'Neal did not have that instinct kick in.

Well it wouldn't take a stretch, if one had a top view showing the ball had no chance of scoring before JO touched it.

JO had a rough night. Asik kept fouling him on his shots, and JO didn't get the calls, then he battles with Asik, and does a dumb move I guess. Tough to give much grief. I thought he brought some toughness, and a block late in the game.

[Sunsss]

So, are we the first team who lost a game after the game ends?

Wonder what JO's thinking right now.

[phrazbit]

O'Neal is one of the only real hard nosed, physical guys on our roster (Tucker being the other), and he does still have a lot of defensive talent. But I question his head often. Among the league leaders in Ts while missing nearly 30 games and only playing 18 minutes a night... thats quite the feat.

That play was just bizarre. I'd want to give him the benefit of the doubt and think maybe crowd noise drowned out the horn or something but Beverley (in his 1st NBA stint) registered the moment and pulled his arms back to avoid the possibility of an infraction, while O'Neal was just lost in the moment.

But it wouldn't be the first time O'Neal let the rush of moment overcome the rational response




That part of the brawl cracked me up. That chunky dummy comes down on the court in his Pistons jersey and starts poppin off and O'Neal comes flying in out of no where... BOOOOM

[Kerrsed]

10 GAME STREAK!!!! BEST OF THE SEASON!!

[sunsdragic]

lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose

wtf . at least one win for fk sake..

it's fate to lose in a game like this lol.

JO

[RunSunRun]

10 GAME STREAK!!!! BEST OF THE SEASON!!

Streaking right towards that #1 pick,