Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III

[pancakes3]

I think that's an overgeneralization, Nate. True that the trend is leaning towards penetrate-kick offenses and our team would serve well to follow that trend seeing as how we already have a penetrator in Wall and a shooter in Beal.

1 - There are teams that still play inside-out, and successful ones at that. The Spurs, Grizzlies, and Clippers don't play much of drive-and-kick.

2 - The game is all about matchups. I don't think there's a lack of big men because it doesn't work but rather the kids aren't being groomed properly. If there was another honest-to-goodness post scorer to come in the league, he would tear it up. Lopez is a good post scorer, but imagine someone like a young Elton Brand coming in, much less a Shaq/Hakeem caliber player.

3 - I have to keep parroting my mantra about coaching. A good coach is a flexible coach. He works with his personnel to exploit matchups. The type of player is less relevant than the caliber of player. Nivek is fond of citing Carlisle in saying that anyone can play defense given the proper coaching and I buy that wholesale. You get guys who have scoring talents, be it speed, size, or skill and focus on a defensive scheme that works? The rest is ego stroking and motivation.

It sounds easy, and it kind of is. The hard part is drafting the talent. It's no secret why the Spurs and Lakers have been successful, nor is it a surprise that OKC and whatever team Lebron lands on will continue to be successful. Talent dictates NBA wins in a way that no other sport can come close. It makes for a very convincing case for drafting BPA always and let the rest of the chips fall where they may.

3 -

[stevemcqueen1]

Pick and roll is also super important. Someone who can set really good, space clearing on ball screens and either fade out to mid range and hit jumpers or roll to the rim and finish at a high percentage is going to be a powerful offensive weapon.

That's Bennett no doubt. When you've got a PG like Wall, it makes sense to get a front court player like Bennett. He can handle the ball too, he would multiple defenders off the dribble with his face up and perimeter drives.

You can't play up on him on the perimeter to take him off the 3 PT line because he can blow by you.

Good bet that he'll be a terrific NBA scorer. A more explosive Paul Millsap. I agree with nate that what will determine his ceiling as a player is how good he gets on D. If he becomes the defensive glass eater and versatile shot blocker and positional defender that he's got the potential to be, he'll be an All Star caliber player.

[nate33]

San Antonio pretty much runs their offense through Parker now, and when Duncan gets it, it's mostly a face up game from the wing. Likewise, most of Blake Griffin's scoring is done from facing up on the wing, not with his back to the basket. I contend that Memphis (and arguably Indiana) are the only back-to-the basket offenses left.

But either way, my point stands. Bennett's size will not be a liability today. The fact that he can score with a face-up game is much more of an asset than his lack of post up game is a liability.

[The Consiglieri]

Bennett would be my top pick for the Zards at 8-10, followed closely by Len. I get that Bennett seems to be lazy (a similar criticism was leveled against Drummond last year) but with his shooting range for a PF/SF and that imposing NBA-ready body, I'd have take a chance on him. With the right coaching and mentoring--and a push from his NBA teammates--Bennett's attitude and willingness to work hard on defense could improve dramatically.

However, I suspect that a GM picking ahead of the Zards will see Bennett as the second coming of Larry Johnson and that he'll get drafted in the top 5-6 picks.

If Bennett and Len were on the board at 8-10 and I had the Wizards pick, I would draft that player for another team and trade them. That other team would have to take Singleton, Vesely, or Booker. That team would have to give the Wizards two firsts in this draft. If they would take Singleton and Vesely, that would be even better.

I would draft Doug McDermott and C. J. McCollum or Nate Wolters with the two picks. I would choose Olynyk and McDermott and be ECSTATIC if able to get both. I think Olynyk's going to go fairly high in round one, if not lottery).

My priority of players (if not Porter): 1. McDermott 2. Olynyk 3. McCollum 4. Wolters

*I want McDermott and one of the others from round one.

Assuming I got McDermott and McCollum in round one (instead of using the 8-10 on Bennett or Len); I would pick the best big man available in round two between Steven Adams, Mike Muscala, and Zeke Marshall. I'm biased to think Marshall is going to be a really useful NBA player.

With the last round two pick I would pick D. J. Stephens, who might be the best athlete in the draft.

Honestly, I don't like your list, or your draft scenario. I know you have a damn fine track record, but I have a hard time seeing McDermott as more than a one dimensional bench scorer. Olynykas previously mentioned makes me very nervous. I like McCollum, but I think there are better directions we could go. I have no problem taking a long look at Wolters though.

[stevemcqueen1]

I liked Drummond, but I also liked TRob. TRob looks pretty bad. Drummond is still an unknown. Ultimately, I'm satisfied with Beal. He's the best perimeter player from the class IMO (I don't think Lillard has nearly as much upside as a 22 year old). That probably means that, at some point in his career, there will be a time when he is one of the best perimeter players in the league, as his generation reaches its prime.

Beal was a nice blend of upside and safety/nba ready skill. He was the most multifaceted guard in the class by far and one of the most athletic. I'm not pining for Drummond, and if given the choice, I would still take him over Drummond.

[pancakes3]

But either way, my point stands. Bennett's size will not be a liability today. The fact that he can score with a face-up game is much more of an asset than his lack of post up game is a liability.

Right. I was derailing the argument for the heck of it. 'Melo's successful transition to PF is convincing that tweeners can now play PF. The only caveat is that you need an absolute eraser at C.

A further derailment begs the question of how successful AJ could have done at PF had we played Haywood heavy minutes instead of platooning.

[nate33]

I agree with stevemcqueen (again). Missing out on Drummond wasn't some kind of egregious mistake that should cause GM's picking #2-#7 to be fired. There were definite warning flags about him. Just because those warning flags didn't pan out in this particular instance doesn't mean they should always be ignored.

Drummond was a risky pick. The risk paid off for Detroit. It didn't pay off with Olowokandi, Kwame or Curry. Size and athleticism alone isn't always enough. Drummond wasn't particularly productive at UConn and GM's had cause for concern

[The Consiglieri]

I liked Drummond, but I also liked TRob. TRob looks pretty bad. Drummond is still an unknown. Ultimately, I'm satisfied with Beal. He's the best perimeter player from the class IMO (I don't think Lillard has nearly as much upside as a 22 year old). That probably means that, at some point in his career, there will be a time when he is one of the best perimeter players in the league, as his generation reaches its prime.

Beal was a nice blend of upside and safety/nba ready skill. He was the most multifaceted guard in the class by far and one of the most athletic. I'm not pining for Drummond, and if given the choice, I would still take him over Drummond.

At the end of the day, it's not a Ves scenario whee there will plenty of quality options available, and we jus puked all over ourselves. We drafted a guy that will end up being one of the best 2-4 players out of this draft, worst case scenario a top 5 guy. Hugely valuable, and what we need for the most part. It's just a big w/his potential is the hardest asset to acquire in basketball. Landing him would have changed everything, if he proves to be as special as I think he's going to be. That being said, landing a franchise elite PG, is just as important, and landing his backcourt teammate is also special. I'm not bummed, at the end of the day, unlike the '11 clusterflutch, EG was totally justified in taking the relatively high upside, very high floor, super high character, coach on the court great citizen in Beal, over the risk that was Drummond (nothing worse than pulling the trigger on a guy with a spotty record over the last year, and rumors that he didn't love playing the game). Having your best player, also be a worker, coach on the court, very very smart kid, can change the whole chemistry dynamic, and at the end of the day, if this is a 45-50 win team next year (and that's what they'd project to, and a top 4 seed, based on how they've played since Wall came back), and Wall and Beal continue their upward trajectory, we could finally lure elite free agents who want to play with an elite PG. If Paul and Williams had everyone drooling from 2010-2012, then what interest from free agents might Wall Command?

So yeah, Im not weeping, in the end the only thing Im really bitter about is that we are repeating the disaster of a decade ago when MJ artificially inflated our win total by about 5-10, pushing us out of range of Yao in '02, and LeBron, Wade, Bosh, and Melo in '03. If MJ had never came in back then, we probably would have landed one of the big 4 in '03, and had a shot at Yao. Might have changed our last decade entirely. Now, we're getting good enough just in time to miss out on the best draft since '03, and at least in terms of elite quality depth, a draft that's probably better than the '03 class. That is what's making me weep, and why I wouldn't be bothered at all in dealing a ton of assets, and our '13 #1, for more picks in '14. I understand nobody will want to deal 2014 first rounders, but potentially getting ammo from that draft would be huge, adding a 2nd #1, and/or multiple 2nd rounders, dealing Okariza perhaps to somebody whose a lock to be a playoff team and outside the blue chip area in '14, for their pick? Whatever, I'd do anything to land a second first rounder in the '14 draft. At the end of the day, my guess is that our first rounder n 2014, will probably be slot 17-24.

[mhd]

Informative article from Chris Mannix on Scout's opinions on the prospects:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/ne ... &eref=sihp

[The Consiglieri]

I liked Drummond, but I also liked TRob. TRob looks pretty bad. Drummond is still an unknown. Ultimately, I'm satisfied with Beal. He's the best perimeter player from the class IMO (I don't think Lillard has nearly as much upside as a 22 year old). That probably means that, at some point in his career, there will be a time when he is one of the best perimeter players in the league, as his generation reaches its prime.

Beal was a nice blend of upside and safety/nba ready skill. He was the most multifaceted guard in the class by far and one of the most athletic. I'm not pining for Drummond, and if given the choice, I would still take him over Drummond.

In Fairness to TRob, he got drafted by the worst team in the league you could go too. There are worse teams, mind you, but there are no more inferior organizations than the Maloofs disaster in Sacramento. They don't care about anything other than cutting costs for the sale. The team is constructed essentially like, looking at college stats, and mock drafts, and taking the highest guy left on the board w/o considering ANYTHING else. TRob's season was sabotaged by that. Now he's on a vastly superior team in terms of development, give him another year or two to work his way into consistency and we'll see what he is. I loved his character and mental make up but did not like that he didn't do squat until last year. Much like another guy in this draft (Olynyk), I distrust guys who do ----- all until their older. Yes sometimes there are guys in front of you, but more often than not, the truly elite render the vets in front of them immaterial by their superior talent. This didn't happen with TRob, he stayed behind the Morris Twins, two inferior prospects who were older. I correctly sussed out that Marcus would suck at the NBA level, but thought TRob had more of a shot. We'll see. He made me nervous, but I felt he had the skill set, and the mental make up to at least be a league average starter. Maybe I was wrong, but lets not hold Sacramento against him. Sac would make anyone look like garbage.

[stevemcqueen1]

Informative article from Chris Mannix on Scout's opinions on the prospects:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/ne ... &eref=sihp

That all makes sense to me. I would love for Zeller to be sitting there on the table when we pick. That kind of situation reminds me of how Brook Lopez fell to tenth in '08.

The surprising thing from that board is just how far the Kentucky kids have fallen. Goodwin and Poythress basically have to go pro this year. I would consider moving back up into the late first or early second to pick one of them if they fell that far.

[jivelikenice]

Looks like Porter will slip. I kind of agree with that and think Bennet and Burke shooting up the boards can push Otto into the 6-8 range. in the range what would the cost for a trade up be?

[sfam]

I liked Drummond, but I also liked TRob. TRob looks pretty bad. Drummond is still an unknown. Ultimately, I'm satisfied with Beal. He's the best perimeter player from the class IMO (I don't think Lillard has nearly as much upside as a 22 year old). That probably means that, at some point in his career, there will be a time when he is one of the best perimeter players in the league, as his generation reaches its prime.

Beal was a nice blend of upside and safety/nba ready skill. He was the most multifaceted guard in the class by far and one of the most athletic. I'm not pining for Drummond, and if given the choice, I would still take him over Drummond.

At the end of the day, it's not a Ves scenario whee there will plenty of quality options available, and we jus puked all over ourselves. We drafted a guy that will end up being one of the best 2-4 players out of this draft, worst case scenario a top 5 guy. Hugely valuable, and what we need for the most part. It's just a big w/his potential is the hardest asset to acquire in basketball. Landing him would have changed everything, if he proves to be as special as I think he's going to be. That being said, landing a franchise elite PG, is just as important, and landing his backcourt teammate is also special. I'm not bummed, at the end of the day, unlike the '11 clusterflutch, EG was totally justified in taking the relatively high upside, very high floor, super high character, coach on the court great citizen in Beal, over the risk that was Drummond (nothing worse than pulling the trigger on a guy with a spotty record over the last year, and rumors that he didn't love playing the game). Having your best player, also be a worker, coach on the court, very very smart kid, can change the whole chemistry dynamic, and at the end of the day, if this is a 45-50 win team next year (and that's what they'd project to, and a top 4 seed, based on how they've played since Wall came back), and Wall and Beal continue their upward trajectory, we could finally lure elite free agents who want to play with an elite PG. If Paul and Williams had everyone drooling from 2010-2012, then what interest from free agents might Wall Command?

So yeah, Im not weeping, in the end the only thing Im really bitter about is that we are repeating the disaster of a decade ago when MJ artificially inflated our win total by about 5-10, pushing us out of range of Yao in '02, and LeBron, Wade, Bosh, and Melo in '03. If MJ had never came in back then, we probably would have landed one of the big 4 in '03, and had a shot at Yao. Might have changed our last decade entirely. Now, we're getting good enough just in time to miss out on the best draft since '03, and at least in terms of elite quality depth, a draft that's probably better than the '03 class. That is what's making me weep, and why I wouldn't be bothered at all in dealing a ton of assets, and our '13 #1, for more picks in '14. I understand nobody will want to deal 2014 first rounders, but potentially getting ammo from that draft would be huge, adding a 2nd #1, and/or multiple 2nd rounders, dealing Okariza perhaps to somebody whose a lock to be a playoff team and outside the blue chip area in '14, for their pick? Whatever, I'd do anything to land a second first rounder in the '14 draft. At the end of the day, my guess is that our first rounder n 2014, will probably be slot 17-24.

Who are you kidding? If MJ never came here we'da drafted Dunleavy in 02 and Darko in 03!

[queridiculo]

Once teams get to see Bennett work out I have no doubt in my mind that he'll shoot up to the top three on the draft boards. His offensive skills will gloss over his defensive deficiencies and he'll make up for his lack of height with his length.

In a few of the interviews I've seen he came across incredibly immature and naive with respect to his game, that's one thing I could see work against him once teams get a chance to talk to him.

Almost everybody sees him as a four, while he appears to have visions of playing the three or two...

[sfam]

Informative article from Chris Mannix on Scout's opinions on the prospects:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/ne ... &eref=sihp

That all makes sense to me. I would love for Zeller to be sitting there on the table when we pick. That kind of situation reminds me of how Brook Lopez fell to tenth in '08.

The surprising thing from that board is just how far the Kentucky kids have fallen. Goodwin and Poythress basically have to go pro this year. I would consider moving back up into the late first or early second to pick one of them if they fell that far.

This looks more realistic to me than Chris Ford's. I just don't see Bennet falling out of the top 5. I suppose he could have horrible tryouts or repeat the bit about wanting to be a 2 guard, but I'm guessing his agent will straighten that out.

[sfam]

Once teams get to see Bennett work out I have no doubt in my mind that he'll shoot up to the top three on the draft boards. His offensive skills will gloss over his defensive deficiencies and he'll make up for his lack of height with his length.

In a few of the interviews I've seen he came across incredibly immature and naive with respect to his game, that's one thing I could see work against him once teams get a chance to talk to him.

Almost everybody sees him as a four, while he appears to have visions of playing the three or two...

If we end up with the second or third pick, I'd still consider Bennet over Porter.

[jivelikenice]

In the top 3 I'd go with Porter. More polished and is being underrated because of the system he plays in.

I do agree though that teams will be intrgiued by the skills Bennett offers and he'll shoot up draft boards.

[nate33]

I'm hoping Zeller dazzles at the combine and moves up the board, pushing Bennett or Burke to us.

[Dark Faze]

Sorry, I just haven't seen anything from Bennett to break my "no tweeners" rule.

People listed guys like LeBron and Melo as reasons why tweeners flourish in the league now..those guys aren't tweeners. They are great SF's that are effective enough at PF to negate any defensive liabilities.

Comparing Bennett to those guys is pretty laughable. Bennett is a tweener in the mold of Derrick Williams and Michael Beasley--2 college players that had better years than Bennett. Bennett projects to be a better defensive player than Derrick, but advanced stats and the eye test don't really indicate him being better offensively, which is scary as both D-Will and Beasley are struggling on both sides of the court in the NBA dispite destroying competition in college.

And my god, for as much as you guys talk about Olynyks resume in terms of teams faced it doesn't get worse than Bennett. I'm looking at his game log....lmao the dude didn't play against a single NBA talent. He placed UNC once and I don't even like McAdoo at all so I call it a wash. At least Olynyk dominated his schedule including a game against Marcus Smart and only lost to a good Wichita team.

[nate33]

And my god, for as much as you guys talk about Olynyks resume in terms of teams faced it doesn't get worse than Bennett. I'm looking at his game log....lmao the dude didn't play against a single NBA talent. He placed UNC once and I don't even like McAdoo at all so I call it a wash. At least Olynyk dominated his schedule including a game against Marcus Smart and only lost to a good Wichita team.

Good point, Dark Faze.