Reggie Jackson - long term bench solution?

[Old Man Game]

I have doubts as to whether KMart will be resigned if at all and certainly not on a long term deal. Assuming that's true, is Reggie Jackson a long term solution in the second unit? Is this the guy who OKC eventually relies upon as the primary scorer coming off the bench and the third best scorer overall (the James Harden role)? He's way too inconsistent a jumper shooter right now. Can he develop that to fill out his game?

If not, should OKC be looking to upgrade that backup PG in this draft or do we assume Jeremy Lamb will step up next season and become the bench spark plug?

[SantaMenon]

I have doubts as to whether KMart will be resigned if at all and certainly not on a long term deal. Assuming that's true, is Reggie Jackson a long term solution in the second unit? Is this the guy who OKC eventually relies upon as the primary scorer coming off the bench and the third best scorer overall (the James Harden role)? He's way too inconsistent a jumper shooter right now. Can he develop that to fill out his game?

If not, should OKC be looking to upgrade that backup PG in this draft or do we assume Jeremy Lamb will step up next season and become the bench spark plug?

I remember KD giving a quote saying something like Lamb was going to be huge next season. If we take it at its face value then we have to assume that the long term plan of the thunder is to use/package our picks this season for a big and have our bench consist of Jackson/Lamb as the one two punch off the bench, and our long term vision being a crunch time unit of WB, Jackson, Durant, Ibaka, Collison or playing Durant at the 4 with Ibaka sliding over the 5 and playing Lamb.

I definitely think Jackson has the ability to perform a Harden like role, he has bundles of energy and is a fantastic spark off the bench.

[bbms]

Unless something really nice fall for us in the draft, I think so. Reggie Jackson is a potentially really good backup combo guard. I don't think he has explosiveness and jumpshooting ability to ever be a great scorer off the bench like Harden was, but his ability to sink a shot near the basket is quite something. His defense and sheer power driving to the basket is imo what he does best and he should focus on improving this aspects, along with spt up shooting which is his big flaw in his role.

I say Jeremy Lamb is a future starter for the Thunder. He' has quick feet, monster wingspan, athletic ability and awareness, a potentially good if not great defensive player. Unlike Harden, he has an off the ball play outside of spotting up. He is a fit next to Durant and Westbrook on the starting lineup. He's not nearly as good as Harden was as a sixth man, mainly because his suspect ball handling ability. He can create his shot off the dribble well, but never shows some instinct to set others up from the pick and roll or drive and dish like Harden. Lamb offensively is Kevin Martin again, imo.

[hardenASG13]

Love what I'm seeing out of Jackson lately. The best thing is that he plays a very similar style to westbrook, and when they are out there together they just wreak havoc all over the place. Love him as a long term player for OKC, but if he develops any more he might not come cheap when his rookie deal is up. Seems like a winning player just makes plays on both ends and seemingly is getting better every game.

[Old Man Game]

Love what I'm seeing out of Jackson lately. The best thing is that he plays a very similar style to westbrook, and when they are out there together they just wreak havoc all over the place. Love him as a long term player for OKC, but if he develops any more he might not come cheap when his rookie deal is up. Seems like a winning player just makes plays on both ends and seemingly is getting better every game.

Agreed. He's Westbrook without the jumper and with a little less handle but with a much better shooting percentage at the rim. Royce Young was saying on the radio today that he shoots 78% at the rim. That's absurd.

[CKRT]

I say Jeremy Lamb is a future starter for the Thunder. He' has quick feet, monster wingspan, athletic ability and awareness, a potentially good if not great defensive player. Unlike Harden, he has an off the ball play outside of spotting up. He is a fit next to Durant and Westbrook on the starting lineup. He's not nearly as good as Harden was as a sixth man, mainly because his suspect ball handling ability. He can create his shot off the dribble well, but never shows some instinct to set others up from the pick and roll or drive and dish like Harden. Lamb offensively is Kevin Martin again, imo.

I think Lamb is the future starter too. But I don't think it's fair to compare Harden and Lamb, especially in terms of the PnR, or driving to the basket. That's just not fair to lump those kind of expectations on him.

[RunOKC]

A Jeremy Lamb/Reggie combo off the bench would be deadly. And you could play them with WB/KD at the same time...

PG/SG - WB/Reggie
SF/PF - Lamb/KD
C - Collison/Perk/Ibaka/Whoever

[hardenASG13]

Lots of people on this board are big on lamb as the future 2. I know he was a lotto pick, just wondering what people are basing that on. He's rarely touched the floor this year. I liked him at UConn but want to see him do something in the NBA before I get excited about him, he's pretty thin. As a fan of OKC i would rather see them ship lamb plus the Toronto pick for a solid scorer or big man off the bench and then continue developing PJ3 and Jackson who has proven he can contribute. They don't need to stash talent they are set to be contending for a long time they should move some assests for contributors

[NaturalThunder]

Love what I'm seeing out of Jackson lately. The best thing is that he plays a very similar style to westbrook, and when they are out there together they just wreak havoc all over the place. Love him as a long term player for OKC, but if he develops any more he might not come cheap when his rookie deal is up. Seems like a winning player just makes plays on both ends and seemingly is getting better every game.

Agreed. He's Westbrook without the jumper and with a little less handle but with a much better shooting percentage at the rim. Royce Young was saying on the radio today that he shoots 78% at the rim. That's absurd.

For awhile, anytime Reggie drove and made a shot at the rim in traffic, I found myself constantly thinking there's no way that's going in, and "he got a little lucky" after he made the shot. At this point, though, after he's shown he can maintain it over a decent stretch, it's obvious he's an excellent tough shot maker in traffic at the rim. Some of the off-balance awkward looking runners and lay-ups he's able to make look impossible, but he makes them with consistency. And while he's not a Russell Westbrook or Derrick Rose type athlete, he's still a very good athlete as he's shown on a few occasions.

Other than the few times he's tried to force a shot in transition, he almost always makes the right play. I thought last year, when he had to step in after Maynor got hurt and before we signed Fisher, I thought he'd never get be the player he is today. Considering he was a late 1st round pick, I'd say it's starting to look more and more like Presti may have hit another draft day home run in 2011.

[sonictecture]

I think the organization is happy with the development of Jackson and is committed to him being part of the future of the team, but the factors of whether he'll be a long term bench solution will depend upon his continued development.

If Brooks allows Jackson to run the second unit offense more next season then every team looking for a starting point guard will focus their eyes on Jackson. Will Presti be willing to pay Jackson starting point guard money to stay? Again that will depend upon Jackson's development. It could come to pass that Jackson's ability to defend and developing offense make him worth such an investment and Jackson might be willing to play that role long term with the knowledge he'll get time with the starters as well.

Martin has be criticized for a lack of consistency or ability to create his own offense, but statistically he has been extremely productive and efficient overall. Martin has also openly accepted a sixth man role, meaning one could expect him to be happy playing a lesser role for as long as he was signed to stay in OKC. That kind of consistency could be attractive to the organization.

Lamb has talent and seemingly accepted the development track outlined by the organization, but if there isn't a path for playing time next season you can expect him to ask for a trade. Another season in Tulsa will not do Lamb much good, he needs NBA run to keep developing. Lamb"s future will depend in part on what Presti decides to do with Martin. It could be that Presti decides to that neither Martin nor Lamb represent the direction he wants to go, but the alternative to one of those players is not yet clear.

[comingbacktousa]

I disagree with most people in that Lamb will be a starter any time soon. Thabo should remain the starter until he starts to decline. He allows Westbrook and Durant to rest a lot of nights on defense by guarding their man. He should be guarding CP3 and Tony Parker if the thunder play them in the playoffs. His length causes both of them issues. Obviously he is going to earn his paycheck with Harden in the first round also. With Ibaka improving offensively, more offense for the starters isn't really needed. His ability to hit the 3 is a great fit along with KD, Westbrook and Ibaka. He should definitely be extended for the mid level when his contract is up.

I'm not a big fan of Reggie Jackson as a long term solution. Hes a combo guard that can't hit the three. Hes basically a bad version of Westbrook. Plays out of control, not a good shooter, good driver, good rebounder, if focused can play good defense. I rather have a backup pg that sets up offenses, Burke would be great but unlikely. He could improve and play more disciplined considering hes only a 2nd year player.

Lamb and Pj3 are the future bench guys for the thunder and would do better with a "true" pg rather than a combo guard. Neither are true attacking players but are both very talented. The knock on both of them coming out was that they are too passive. So having a player that gets them involved would be nice. I feel that with Jackson, they'd stand around and watch him do his best Westbrook impersonation.

[sonictecture]

I'm not a big fan of Reggie Jackson as a long term solution. Hes a combo guard that can't hit the three. Hes basically a bad version of Westbrook. Plays out of control, not a good shooter, good driver, good rebounder, if focused can play good defense. I rather have a backup pg that sets up offenses, Burke would be great but unlikely. He could improve and play more disciplined considering hes only a 2nd year player.

I wouldn't say Jackson is a bad version of Westbrook, but rather an early version of Westbrook. Russell couldn't shoot in his second year either and played out of control as much or more than Jackson. Jackson is a combo guard and so is Westbrook. Presti has made an conscious and informed decision to go with combo guards, but he has also been very particular about which combo guards he wants to develop. Drafting Jackson wasn't an unknown or a mistake by Presti is was a calculated move based on a long term plan of team building.

Jackson has an excellent opportunity to expand his current role next season.

Lamb and Pj3 are the future bench guys for the thunder and would do better with a "true" pg rather than a combo guard. Neither are true attacking players but are both very talented. The knock on both of them coming out was that they are too passive. So having a player that gets them involved would be nice. I feel that with Jackson, they'd stand around and watch him do his best Westbrook impersonation.

Lamb won an NCAA championship alongside Kemba Walker, a player who isn't considered a "true" point guard.
This whole notion of one player being given the responsibility for setting up teammates is just what Presti has decided to get away from. He expects players to create for each other and to be able to get their own shots when available. The players on this team that can't get their own shots are asked to play different roles.

I'd rather Lamb and PJ3 develop a broader base of skills than simply being set up by a teammate within the offense. None of Jackson, Lamb or PJ3 have a predetermined destiny here, they are all working to earn opportunities. Jackson is currently in the lead.

[comingbacktousa]

Reggie Jackson was drafted to replace Maynor as the backup pg, once Maynor's contract expired. Maynor was less effective after the acl so those plans got moved up. It was pretty predetermined at the time that his role would be simply to back up Westbrook. The coaching staff/organization still doesn't trust him in that role, otherwise they wouldn't bring in and play Fisher as much as they do. Comparing Jackson and Westbrook in their 2nd years is kind of misleading since Jackson is a couple years older during his 2nd year. But for arguments sake Jackson on jumpshots shoots .336 on 35% assisted; Westbrook 35% on .21% assisted. Westbrook was the better shooter in his 2nd year.

The biggest negatives for Lamb leading up to the draft were size, being to passive and the inability to create his own offense consistently. Pretty much the exact same thing for PJ3 except switch size for a lack of a true position. The reason I consider them more important parts of the future is that they have more upside and a year longer contract. Presti woudn't have made the Harden deal and then not include Lamb in a trade for Gortat if he didn't believe Lamb is going to be a good player.

Maynor pre-acl tear was good at setting up his teammates. That was him returning was supposed to soften the Harden blow a lot. Bench players aren't starting for a reason. If you could put them out there and create their own shot on a regularly then they'd be starting. Outside of Westbrook, Durant, and Martin no body can really create their own shot. What made Harden so much more valuable than Martin was his ability to create shots for others. It'd be great to have another Harden/Ginobili type player coming off the bench but it is very unlikely. So the responsibility of running an offense falls on the pg and coach. With Westbrook, he and Durant draw so much attention running an offense really isn't as necessary to get guys open. With the bench its completely different. So having a guy that set up others is pretty necessary for a 2nd unit and Jackson and this stage lacks that in his game. If he can add that then he should be considered a long term solution but until then just a short term answer.

[sonictecture]

Reggie Jackson was drafted to replace Maynor as the backup pg, once Maynor's contract expired. Maynor was less effective after the acl so those plans got moved up. It was pretty predetermined at the time that his role would be simply to back up Westbrook. The coaching staff/organization still doesn't trust him in that role, otherwise they wouldn't bring in and play Fisher as much as they do. Comparing Jackson and Westbrook in their 2nd years is kind of misleading since Jackson is a couple years older during his 2nd year. But for arguments sake Jackson on jumpshots shoots .336 on 35% assisted; Westbrook 35% on .21% assisted. Westbrook was the better shooter in his 2nd year.

You're speculating why Reggie Jackson was drafted. Presti didn't know Maynor would get injured and he didn't know whether Maynor would stay with the Thunder beyond his rookie contract when he drafted Jackson. What Presti did know is that he liked Jackson and his potential fit with the Thunder.

I agree the coaching staff doesn't fully trust Jackson, but the evidence shows that Jackson is earning their trust. Brooks plays Fisher because he trusts his experience on the floor. Fisher doesn't play point guard in our system and has not taken any minutes from Jackson since being signed.

Jackson is taking fewer shots in year two than Westbrook and within a different role on a contending team. If Westbrook was a better shooter the difference was small enough not to matter.

The biggest negatives for Lamb leading up to the draft were size, being to passive and the inability to create his own offense consistently. Pretty much the exact same thing for PJ3 except switch size for a lack of a true position. The reason I consider them more important parts of the future is that they have more upside and a year longer contract. Presti woudn't have made the Harden deal and then not include Lamb in a trade for Gortat if he didn't believe Lamb is going to be a good player.

How do Lamb and PJ3 have more upside than Jackson? If upside is based off of physical attributes, skill level and mental approach Jackson would seem to have the most upside. Contract length can be a negative if you don't play. Jackson is the one player among the three who is actually playing and contributing.

You're speculating again. It takes two teams to make a trade and Phoenix did not want to trade Gortat. Presti may believe Lamb is going to be a good player, but that doesn't mean Lamb is untouchable.

Maynor pre-acl tear was good at setting up his teammates. That was him returning was supposed to soften the Harden blow a lot. Bench players aren't starting for a reason. If you could put them out there and create their own shot on a regularly then they'd be starting. Outside of Westbrook, Durant, and Martin no body can really create their own shot. What made Harden so much more valuable than Martin was his ability to create shots for others. It'd be great to have another Harden/Ginobili type player coming off the bench but it is very unlikely. So the responsibility of running an offense falls on the pg and coach. With Westbrook, he and Durant draw so much attention running an offense really isn't as necessary to get guys open. With the bench its completely different. So having a guy that set up others is pretty necessary for a 2nd unit and Jackson and this stage lacks that in his game. If he can add that then he should be considered a long term solution but until then just a short term answer.

Maynor has always been overrated as a "true" point guard and he was never great in OKC. As you mentioned Harden was a bench player that could create his own shot, there are a fair number of players coming off the bench that can create their own shot, you are over generalizing here. Jackson can create his own shot.

Incorrect, as we saw this season, Brooks addressed the loss of Harden and the recovery of Maynor by changing his rotation so that Durant played more with the second unit and Brooks routinely ran the offense through Durant. In the Thunder scheme Brooks will run offense through a number of different players, especially with the second unit. Collison, Jackson, Durant have all had the responsibility of getting others shots this season. Varying who runs the offense is by design, just as switching bigs on the pick and roll is by design.

The Thunder were an efficient but predictable team to defend with Harden running the offense for the second unit, teams could game plan easier with Harden. Now the team is much more unpredictable and the overall efficiency numbers have remained high.

[bbms]

I think Lamb would fit well with Jackson. Jackson is a simple passing combo guard, with drive and kick ability, and Jeremy's game consist of coming off screens and spotting up, with a little of isolation. Reggie Jackson brings the driving ability and pick and roll play, and Lamb fill the holes with spotting up and off the ball play.

I don't think Lamb can be a efficient 18 pp36 right away with 15+ mpg, but it's better than comitting a long term with Martin. Thunder can't lose a talent of Lamb's level.

[sonictecture]

What would be considered a long term contract for Martin? Anything over 2 years, over 3 years?

I agree that Jackson and Lamb projects as a good combination, but then Lamb's game and projected role is very similar to the one Martin played this year.

How many people think Lamb will be a better player than Martin?

If the Thunder fail to win a championship this season and go into next season with Lamb would this result in another step back?

[bondom34]

Interesting thought, and actually looking at numbers, the per 36 stats aren't all that far off for the two, other than Martin being a better shooter. Lamb is much better than Martin was as a rook though, and given playing time/ability to develop may very well be a better option. If there's no title, and Martin has difficulty in the playoffs, it may not really be a step back to try Lamb and see what happens. Worst case, they could attempt to pick up someone early/mid next season if its that bad a situation.

[comingbacktousa]

What would be considered a long term contract for Martin? Anything over 2 years, over 3 years?

I agree that Jackson and Lamb projects as a good combination, but then Lamb's game and projected role is very similar to the one Martin played this year.

How many people think Lamb will be a better player than Martin?

If the Thunder fail to win a championship this season and go into next season with Lamb would this result in another step back?

I'm saying he could predict the injury but when Jackson was drafted it seemed that he would be future back-up pg once Maynor's contract expired due to cap issues. Since at the time it looked like he would be getting a nice pay increase and a pending Harden situation was going to make money tight. Jackson had a promise from Presti before the draft I believe so he stopped working out for other teams, so Presti had something in mind for him. I agree that he has a lot of upside but Lamb and PJ3 have more. They all have incredible length. PJ3 is an absolute ridiculous athlete, his vertical and speed for someone his size is amazing. Lamb also has a better shot than Jackson. The logic that Jackson is the only one getting playtime so he is a better project is not the greatest reasoning. As a rookie Jackson, due to Maynor's injury, had available playing time but pretty much blew it. PJ3 and Lamb don't really have a role on the team yet due to who is in front of them. Lamb has Thabo and Martin both proven good players in front of him. And PJ3 has Ibaka and Collison in front of him. Neither one has players in front of them that most rookies are expected to beat out for playing time.

It'll be interesting to see who plays more and when between fisher and Jackson. Jackson keeps getting thrown into tough positions but all eyes will be on him. Lets see how he plays when it matters. At least he should get comfortable during the rest of the Houston series especially if Lin is out too.

A long term deal would probably be 3 years. His resigning really just depends on what his asking price is.

Lamb's game is projected to be a similar to Kevin Martin without all the fts but more athleticism.

Too early to tell. Martin is underrated on offense. Hes been a 20+ point scorer for most of his career on pretty good efficiency. For comparison his career efg % and ts % are about the same as Harden's this year. Hes just doesn't have much of an all around game. So if Lamb can become a decent playmaker and defender then he has a chance but as a pure scorer its going to be harder.

If everyone else stayed the same then Lamb instead of Martin would be a step back offensively. However, I expect Ibaka to keep expanding his offensive game(he has so much potential) as well as everyone else. Hopefully Durant uses the summer to gain more strength so "small ball" is a more viable option which should help offset no Martin. A healthy OKC team is a top 2 team in the west either way.

[sonictecture]

I'm saying he could predict the injury but when Jackson was drafted it seemed that he would be future back-up pg once Maynor's contract expired due to cap issues. Since at the time it looked like he would be getting a nice pay increase and a pending Harden situation was going to make money tight.

I remember all of these thoughts and discussions when Jackson was drafted, but we were all just speculating as to why Presti would draft another point guard when Maynor had 2-3 years left on his rookie deal. We assumed Maynor would be too expensive to sign, but we all assumed Harden would be still be on the team as well.

Looking back, I think Presti drafted Jackson because he fit Presti''s prototype so well. Better than Maynor and that Jackson would have probably supplanted Maynor regardless of the circumstances.

Jackson had a promise from Presti before the draft I believe so he stopped working out for other teams, so Presti had something in mind for him.

There was also a rumor that Jackson had suffered a small injury just before the Chicago Draft Camp. Jackson had an excellent opportunity to be picked in the late lottery, so if he shut himself down purely because Presti wanted to take him at 25 and Jackson and his representatives believed so strongly that coming to OKC was better than other opportunities, that impressive, right?

I agree that he has a lot of upside but Lamb and PJ3 have more. They all have incredible length. PJ3 is an absolute ridiculous athlete, his vertical and speed for someone his size is amazing. Lamb also has a better shot than Jackson. The logic that Jackson is the only one getting playtime so he is a better project is not the greatest reasoning.

Upside is typically based on physical profile and skill level. Jackson has the best combination of those two factors out of the three players mentioned. It is the reason he is playing now while Lamb works on his strength and skills and PJ3 works on his skills and strength. Upside only has value if you can translate it to getting playing time. Lamb and PJ3 are still working, while Jackson is at the next level.

As a rookie Jackson, due to Maynor's injury, had available playing time but pretty much blew it. PJ3 and Lamb don't really have a role on the team yet due to who is in front of them. Lamb has Thabo and Martin both proven good players in front of him. And PJ3 has Ibaka and Collison in front of him. Neither one has players in front of them that most rookies are expected to beat out for playing time.

Jackson didn't blow it. Playing for himself and chucking up shots would have been blowing it, Jackson did the best he could as a rookie being asked to run the offense. That experience helped him train during the summer and made it possible for him to be ready for his role this season. Jackson is about to start in a playoff game a year after being relegated to the bench. This is an example of true upside.

A long term deal would probably be 3 years. His resigning really just depends on what his asking price is.

Martin is only 30 years old, still in his prime playing years. A three year deal is not that long, especially considering the health he has enjoyed in his new role with OKC.

Lamb's game is projected to be a similar to Kevin Martin without all the fts but more athleticism.

What good does supposed more athleticism do, if you're not using it to put pressure on the defense and getting to the line? Martin is an underrated athlete.

Too early to tell. Martin is underrated on offense. Hes been a 20+ point scorer for most of his career on pretty good efficiency. For comparison his career efg % and ts % are about the same as Harden's this year. Hes just doesn't have much of an all around game. So if Lamb can become a decent playmaker and defender then he has a chance but as a pure scorer its going to be harder.

So we want to take a step back to develop a player that may or may not become as good as the player he would supplant? If this is the case maybe it would be better to sign Martin, trade Lamb and look for prospect who clearly has the opportunity to be better than Martin to develop?

If everyone else stayed the same then Lamb instead of Martin would be a step back offensively. However, I expect Ibaka to keep expanding his offensive game(he has so much potential) as well as everyone else. Hopefully Durant uses the summer to gain more strength so "small ball" is a more viable option which should help offset no Martin. A healthy OKC team is a top 2 team in the west either way.

Isn't the role to improve? Rather than waste years where we have a team in contention by making moves that keep us at the same level as the previous year, the team could resign Martin and allow the development of other players to make us better! Martin might even be better next season, having a year in his new role.

[comingbacktousa]

I think Lamb has a higher skill set than Jackson. But that's debatable. I'm not a fan of guards that can't shoot.

Going to the Martin vs Lamb thing. Its unreasonable to expect a rookie to be better than a 10 year vet. We don't know how he is going to play in games simply because he hasn't gotten any meaningful playing time. Theres just so much development that can take place during the season without playing time. During the season there really isn't that much practicing.

The reason to let Martin walk is the same reason Harden got traded. The luxury tax. Its that plain and simple. The thunder are at $66,119,439 in salaries for 10 players going into next season. That doesn't include the 2 first round picks. So it'll be roughly 69 mil counting them. The luxury tax line is probably going to be around $72 mill. If Martin is signed for more than one year then repeat tax comes into play also. So if the owners don't want to pay the tax then there is no way to resign Martin.

If it was up to me and the owners agreed to pay the tax. I'd offer Martin 4 year 28 million. Then try to trade Lamb and the Okc pick for either a player like Mirotic that chicago owns the rights for or just Lamb back into this draft to draft high upside center. As well as drafting a center with the 12th pick. Since bigs are hard to judge basically play the odds. Draft 2, hoping at least one pans out. This draft class has a lot of high upside true centers. It'd keep the salary the same or maybe ~2 mill lower depending on whether one of the picks develop in Europe. Let the centers develop while Perk plays out his contract. At that point hopefully one can fill his role. Doing all that would put the Thunder about $2-5 million over the luxury cap though. If they kept both picks in Europe for a year, may actually be able to stay under the luxury line completely.