Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III

[nate33]

If we're looking at the best combination of "safe pick" and upside, we want to come away this offseason with either Burke and Webster, or Porter and Jarrett Jack (assuming Noel isn't an option). I'm not saying this is absolutely the way to go. I want to see more from Bennett, Zeller, Olynyk and McGary in the combine and in interviews before making any decisions. I'm just saying that those first two options are likely to lead to the most wins in the immediate future.

[DCZards]

I agree that if we use a pick on a PG, he needs to be a combo guard IMO.

Burke has combo guard ability (he can surely shoot the ball and adopt a score first mentality when he wants) just not combo guard size. That's not a problem alongside Wall because Wall can guard SG's.

Yes, Wall can guard SGs but he's not a good enough shooter to play SG on the offensive end and Burke is too small to play SG, imo. So when Wall and Burke are out there together you're essentially playing with two PGs and no shooting guard on the offensive end.

Edit to add: Burke struggled big time when he came up against Syracuse and the length of Carter-Williams in the tournament. He's going to be facing that kind of length almost every night in the NBA.

[DCZards]

The Burke pick is just about trade value. I think drafting guard help would be stupid.

I would choose McLemore over Porter. I'm just saying that Porter is bustproof. McLemore if his shot isn't falling is going to disappear from whole games. This is unikely though, but a true possibility.

As for Bazz, he's promoted his brand more than any other player I've seen in the last 10 years of college basketball, and that includes sure-fire talent like Wall, Rose, Durant and every other #1 overall pick. That'd be okay if he wasn't a gunner, but he's a ballhog of the highest tier with a bad TS% and zero ability to get his teammates involved or help them get better.

He is going to be a cancer if he plays like he did at UCLA.

I think FAR too much is being made of Shabbazz's so-called off court issues and you proved that Faze by not giving one example of an off court issue to back up your claim that Bazz has "really, really terrible" off court concerns.

[Dark Faze]

Suspended for NCAA eligibility, seeming to be about nothing other than his brand and getting paid, his dad lying about his age and then trying to bribe a reporter to keep it quiet.

Then his terribly selfish on the court play which is high usage low effiency.
All of this combined is just bad.

[Benjammin]

So another day, another draft tier post. I'm sure this will be version two out of XYZ over the next few months for me.

1. Noel---unless word came out that his injury looked severe, he's the clear-cut #1 for the Wizards.


2. Porter--I am persuaded that he can be a very solid two way player with lower risk. It does say this draft is pretty weak.
3. Bennett---I have the tweener concerns (Williams, Beasley, Rodney Rogers, so many others) but he does have legitimate talent.
4. McLemore---He may be the second most talented player in the draft but I don't see the minutes for him on the Wizards. His greatest value may be in a trade down scenario.
5. Burke---He can play with Wall and/or Beal really well and the minutes are there. I think he'll have a very good pro career.
6. Smart---Doesn't fit well with Wall at all, only value is as another name off the board and/or in a trade down scenario.
7. Oladipo----Wish he were bigger to be able to play the 3 more effectively. I don't think he's a good fit with Wall or Beal either. But a nice player. Would probably want to take one of the Bigs with Questions over Oladipo if I believed in one of them after evaluation.

Bigs with Questions---
This is where it gets interesting.

8. Len---has the gifts, will he put it together?
9. Zeller---scares me with his t-rex arms and length, but is skilled and gifted. Needs to show improved strength and ability to shoot from some range.
10. McGary--I really like his hands, his athleticism, and his motor. Obviously a small sample size of high-level play.
11. Goebert--Can't reject him out of hand because he's a foreign guy who probably would remind some of JaVale. Have to do our research and hope our scouting staff can actually accurately evaluate a player.
12. Olynyk--Seems like he's a lower ceiling guy than the other "Bigs with Questions".

Avoid:
Shabazz--Has talent, don't like the vibe he gives off, the comparisons to Stackhouse are interesting, but I think Jerry was a much more athletic and dominating player in college.

[sfam]

Suspended for NCAA eligibility, seeming to be about nothing other than his brand and getting paid, his dad lying about his age and then trying to bribe a reporter to keep it quiet.

Then his terribly selfish on the court play which is high usage low effiency.
All of this combined is just bad.

Maybe he just had a bad stretch of a few years or so. I'm sure its all behind him now.

Besides, Shabaaz fills a hole we recently got when JeVale left. Now we can have a maniacal father to replace the Bat **** insane mother of McGee! Think of the fun that will ensue from his father when Shabaaz sits on the bench too long. I can just see the WaPo Wiz blog entries pile up!

[DCZards]

I'm not making a case for the Zards drafting Shabbazz (although I wouldn't rule it out) but I'm reading a lot of nonsense about not drafting him based on what I consider some weak off court concerns or the "vibe" he gives off. I can't help but believe that there would be more tolerance for Shabbazz if his last name was Jones or Klitsko.

[Dark Faze]

huh?

It's not like GM's are looking for a reason to hate him. He was going to be the concensus #1 overall pick. He disappointed a lot of people in many different ways.

I wish he was great.

[DCZards]

huh?

It's not like GM's are looking for a reason to hate him. He was going to be the concensus #1 overall pick. He disappointed a lot of people in many different ways.

I wish he was great.

I'm not talking about GMs...I'm talking about people on this board.

[Benjammin]

I'm not making a case for the Zards drafting Shabbazz (although I wouldn't rule it out) but I'm reading a lot of nonsense about not drafting him based on what I consider some weak off court concerns or the "vibe" he gives off. I can't help but believe that there would be more tolerance for Shabbazz if his last name was Jones or Klitsko.

I have to disagree respectfully. He came into the season as a consensus top two guy with Noel. I think his first and last name have nothing to do with any particular perceptions, good or bad. Frankly, I'm more concerned with his rather one dimensional play than any possible off court concerns.

[miller31time]

I would love Muhammed on this team. We need an iso scorer and perimeter threat. He doesn't seem like a black hole to me in the same way Nick Young was. And his IQ is much higher than that of Nick (Damning with feint praise, I know).

[sfam]

I'm not making a case for the Zards drafting Shabbazz (although I wouldn't rule it out) but I'm reading a lot of nonsense about not drafting him based on what I consider some weak off court concerns or the "vibe" he gives off. I can't help but believe that there would be more tolerance for Shabbazz if his last name was Jones or Klitsko.

That's rediculous. Anyone who shows that degree of selfishness and lies about his age all through his college career would get this level of scrutiny.

[TGW]

Stay away from Muhammed, I repeat do NOT draft Muhammed. He brings nothing to the table except volume shooting at so-so efficiency.

[sfam]

Most of us here think EG will not face reality regarding his recent spate of crappy draft picks (Seraphin, Vesely, Singleton, Booker - although Booker is decent when healthy). To do so would be detrimental to his short term employment prospects. If this is the case, what's to say that EG drafts as if these players were solid contributors. Said another way, this would mean in EG's calculation that the PF position is locked up, and perhaps the C position as mostly locked up (assuming he sees Seraphin primarily as a Center). If EG drafts with this view in mind, how do you think his draft board looks right now?

[nuposse04]

I don't think Bazz is a top 5 player in this draft, but I don't think you can tell me anyone outside of Noel, Porter, Bennett, McLemore and Smart doesn't have some sort of glaring issue as well.

Len- Mental makeup, hasn't reached expectations.

Zeller- Physical handicaps are a red flag to me

Oladipo- A slightly richer man's tony allen, thats not a top 5 pick to me. Undersized 3, shoots the 3 at a good % but 30 makes on the season seems like a small sample size to me. Has had a bad Assist to TO ratio for 3 years straight.

Burke- Slightly Rich man's Conley. It'd be like an Eric Bledsoe situation drafting him, you hope he has the size and agility to really showcase himself as a possible 6th man of the year candidate with his already good set of skills... in a league saturated with PGs I'm not sure you're going to get better value in trading him then where u draft him. Say you draft him at around 7-8, could you really get a mid to early lottery pick back for him?

McGary-Slightly old for a freshman (like Bazz) small sample size, had a troubled background that nobody wants to talk about but seem so willing to with Shabazz, Doesn't seem like a rim protector to me, needs a better jumpshot.

Shabazz- Not as efficient from the field as was hoped. Pretty much just a scorer at this point. Potential "me first mentality." A year older then thought (whoop-dee- **** -doo). He doesn't jack shots from the games I seen, he passes out, so I'm not sure where the selfish stigma came from outside of that one episode in that end game scenario. Webster got a wrap as a low IQ player for one bad shot in Minny, we know that's not the case.

Goebert- Skinny as hell. Needs to add lots of girth. Will another euro EG drafts become another bust?

I'm not making a case for the Zards drafting Shabbazz (although I wouldn't rule it out) but I'm reading a lot of nonsense about not drafting him based on what I consider some weak off court concerns or the "vibe" he gives off. I can't help but believe that there would be more tolerance for Shabbazz if his last name was Jones or Klitsko.

That's rediculous. Anyone who shows that degree of selfishness and lies about his age all through his college career would get this level of scrutiny.

What degree of selfishness? That he doesn't have a have a better assist to TO ratio? I can agree with that but outside of the one aforementioned play he hasn't been THE reason UCLA under-performed. This selfish stigma just seems unwarranted outside of the assist to TO thing. People with these "vibes" need to cite their sources inside the locker room. The age thing seems moot, he's 20. We're considering drafting other 20 year olds right?

Again, I'm not saying take him in the top 5, but 6-10, he's just as good on the court, or just as bad, as anyone else, and he has more potential some others. I think people are more guarded against him because we've drafted guys who haven't gotten anywhere near their potential so they want to settle with guys who have a safer floor.

[nate33]

I agree that if we use a pick on a PG, he needs to be a combo guard IMO.

Burke has combo guard ability (he can surely shoot the ball and adopt a score first mentality when he wants) just not combo guard size. That's not a problem alongside Wall because Wall can guard SG's.

Yes, Wall can guard SGs but he's not a good enough shooter to play SG on the offensive end and Burke is too small to play SG, imo. So when Wall and Burke are out there together you're essentially playing with two PGs and no shooting guard on the offensive end.

Edit to add: Burke struggled big time when he came up against Syracuse and the length of Carter-Williams in the tournament. He's going to be facing that kind of length almost every night in the NBA.

I don't see what Burke's size has to do with his ability to play SG. When he and Wall are together, the shorter opposing guard is going to be guarding Burke, and the taller guard will guard Wall. If they put a SG on Burke, Burke could either break him down off the dribble, or we could post up John Wall on the block (who would presumably be guarded by the opposing PG). Guys like Jason Terry, J.J. Barea, Luke Ridnoir, Eric Bledsoe and Danny Gibson all play SG despite their diminutive stature. And they don't have the luxury of the taller John Wall on their side. Trey Burke is also going to play taller. He has a wingspan of 6-5 and will probably end up with a taller standing reach than J.J. Redick.

[nuposse04]

^Kinda reminds me of Gil and Juan in the back court. Except Trey has better handles.

[sfam]

I don't think Bazz is a top 5 player in this draft, but I don't think you can tell me anyone outside of Noel, Porter, Bennett, McLemore and Smart doesn't have some sort of glaring issue as well.

Len- Mental makeup, hasn't reached expectations.

Zeller- Physical handicaps are a red flag to me

Oladipo- A slightly richer man's tony allen, thats not a top 5 pick to me. Undersized 3, shoots the 3 at a good % but 30 makes on the season seems like a small sample size to me. Has had a bad Assist to TO ratio for 3 years straight.

Burke- Slightly Rich man's Conley. It'd be like an Eric Bledsoe situation drafting him, you hope he has the size and agility to really showcase himself as a possible 6th man of the year candidate with his already good set of skills... in a league saturated with PGs I'm not sure you're going to get better value in trading him then where u draft him. Say you draft him at around 7-8, could you really get a mid to early lottery pick back for him?

McGary-Slightly old for a freshman (like Bazz) small sample size, had a troubled background that nobody wants to talk about but seem so willing to with Shabazz, Doesn't seem like a rim protector to me, needs a better jumpshot.

Shabazz- Not as efficient from the field as was hoped. Pretty much just a scorer at this point. Potential "me first mentality." A year older then thought (whoop-dee- **** -doo). He doesn't jack shots from the games I seen, he passes out, so I'm not sure where the selfish stigma came from outside of that one episode in that end game scenario. Webster got a wrap as a low IQ player for one bad shot in Minny, we know that's not the case.

Goebert- Skinny as hell. Needs to add lots of girth. Will another euro EG drafts become another bust?

I'm not making a case for the Zards drafting Shabbazz (although I wouldn't rule it out) but I'm reading a lot of nonsense about not drafting him based on what I consider some weak off court concerns or the "vibe" he gives off. I can't help but believe that there would be more tolerance for Shabbazz if his last name was Jones or Klitsko.

That's rediculous. Anyone who shows that degree of selfishness and lies about his age all through his college career would get this level of scrutiny.

What degree of selfishness? That he doesn't have a have a better assist to TO ratio? I can agree with that but outside of the one aforementioned play he hasn't been THE reason UCLA under-performed. This selfish stigma just seems unwarranted outside of the assist to TO thing. People with these "vibes" need to cite their sources inside the locker room. The age thing seems moot, he's 20. We're considering drafting other 20 year olds right?

Again, I'm not saying take him in the top 5, but 6-10, he's just as good on the court, or just as bad, as anyone else, and he has more potential some others. I think people are more guarded against him because we've drafted guys who haven't gotten anywhere near their potential so they want to settle with guys who have a safer floor.

The problem is not that he's 20 years old. Its that he (really his father) made the decision to lie about it growing up in order to give him an advantage on all the best prospects coming out at the same time as him. This goes to character, as does that one event at the end of the game against Washington, as does his 27 assists for the year in 35 games played.

[nate33]

What degree of selfishness? That he doesn't have a have a better assist to TO ratio? I can agree with that but outside of the one aforementioned play he hasn't been THE reason UCLA under-performed. This selfish stigma just seems unwarranted outside of the assist to TO thing. People with these "vibes" need to cite their sources inside the locker room. The age thing seems moot, he's 20. We're considering drafting other 20 year olds right?

I wouldn't characterize my reservations about Shabazz as a concern with his "selfishness". I don't know if he's selfish or not. My concern is his inability to impact a game unless he has the ball in his hands. He has lousy numbers in rebounds, assists, steals and blocks, and he hasn't demonstrated enough catch-and-shoot accuracy to suggest he will be a good off the ball player. And when the ball is in his hands, he doesn't generate points for others and he scores at a relatively low efficiency. In my experience, those types of players rarely evolve their game to become quality off-the-ball role players, and they rarely improve their scoring efficiency to become primary options. They may score in the NBA, but their points come at the expense of ball movement that would yield more efficient scoring from other players.

For Shabazz to be a good player, a significant improvement is necessary. Such an improvement is possible given his relative lack of experience and young age, but it's a pretty big gamble. If Shabazz wants to be a top 10 pick, he should go back to school, get better, and come out next year.

[WizardsWorld]

Stay away from Muhammed, I repeat do NOT draft Muhammed. He brings nothing to the table except volume shooting at so-so efficiency.

AGREED. Stay the hell away from him. As much as I am against most the players in this draft... Muhammed would be my last choice. I'd take Len or Zeller over him even though I'm not too high on either.