Stats Breakdown: Atlanta or Chicago, Who Ya Got?

[enetric]

Shades? Reggie Evan still starts for this team. Brook Lopez has had games where he completely forgets that he was an all star this year.

I already know the end result to this story. God bless you.

Yes shades. Variations of season long issues varying in form and severity. Our inconsistency provides an unpredictable nature that we aren't entirely sure is a permanent fixture of the Brooklyn Nets or just this year's problems we can improve upon. It is both the reason that we can be hopeful for and doubt a winning in the first round. I don't think its homerism to walk into a Playoff series with a guarded hopeful ambivalence because of that.
We can win if we play to our actual ability as opposed to our self imposed ability.

But now you are twisting away from the point. You said that we have shown more mental toughness RECENTLY.

That is what you are being challenged on. Nothing you said in this post that I just quote is unfair. But it doesnt speak at all to what we were talking about.

So again...another thread I have to challenge you with "own it". As in own up to what you said and the debate presented to you. There is never shame in acknowledging that someone made a point you hadn't considered that challenges your previous position. No, admitting that we haven't shown more mental toughness doesn't mean you cant think we have improved as a team or think that we could do well in the playoffs...or think we are gaining momentum in some way. You can think all those things and still admit that perhaps you misspoke about this team showing more mental toughness of late?

Mental toughness is something very specific. So lets get back to that. I will quote your reply to me for more detail on that.

[Nondescript]

Shades? Reggie Evan still starts for this team. Brook Lopez has had games where he completely forgets that he was an all star this year.

I already know the end result to this story. God bless you.

Yes shades. Variations of season long issues varying in form and severity. Our inconsistency provides an unpredictable nature that we aren't entirely sure is a permanent fixture of the Brooklyn Nets or just this year's problems we can improve upon. It is both the reason that we can be hopeful for and doubt a winning in the first round. I don't think its homerism to walk into a Playoff series with a guarded hopeful ambivalence because of that.
We can win if we play to our actual ability as opposed to our self imposed ability.

But now you are twisting away from the point. You said that we have shown more mental toughness RECENTLY.

That is what you are being challenged on. Nothing you said in this post that I just quote is unfair. But it doesnt speak at all to what we were talking about.

So again...another thread I have to challenge you with "own it". As in own up to what you said and the debate presented to you. There is never shame in acknowledging that someone made a point you hadn't considered that challenges your previous position. No, admitting that we haven't shown more mental toughness doesn't mean you cant think we have improved as a team or think that we could do well in the playoffs...or think we are gaining momentum in some way. You can think all those things and still admit that perhaps you misspoke about this team showing more mental toughness of late?

Mental toughness is something very specific. So lets get back to that. I will quote your reply to me for more detail on that.

The Pacers game speaked volumes to me. We did screw it up but we held against a tough situation and got the win. I couldn't see the team doing that in the first half of the year. To a much lesser extent the Wizards game showed me the same thing.

[Ronito]

We will beat the Hawks or the Bulls, if the DWill we get is the DWill we've been seeing.

Edit: But Gerald Wallace needs to come off the bench or get 20 minutes or so. We will get trapped endlessly otherwise. Does PJ have the smarts to do that after what we've seen from them? And there's no question he's a reactive coach, so Gerald will play a ton in the first game regardless.

[Nondescript]

We will beat the Hawks or the Bulls, if the DWill we get is the DWill we've been seeing.

Edit: But Gerald Wallace needs to come off the bench or get 20 minutes or so. We will get trapped endlessly otherwise. Does PJ have the smarts to do that after what we've seen from them? And there's no question he's a reactive coach, so Gerald will play a ton in the first game regardless.

I agree. Crash is one of my biggest concerns going into the Playoffs. I'm can't think of any surefire way to get him in the right place before Saturday. If we don't have him we've got him our options at SF aren't ideal.

[enetric]

You disagree that we lost to lesser teams recently?
You disagree that we blew big 2nd half leads over recent weeks?
You disagree that we struggled in several games where the opponent was missing major players?


Maybe you base mental toughness on something less tangible than I do? Just feel it in your gut that we have been tougher despite all the facts I gave you above or you dispute that those things happened?

We under achieved this year. Whether that is just indicative of this year or will be a staple of this incarnation of the Nets is still up for debate but we have fought back in ways we didn't in the first half of the year. D-Will has been competitive the majority of the season post ASG. There are still shades of underlining problems but they there has been marked improvement so I'll give the team credit for that.

As I said you didnt really answer the challenge to your previous statement that we have shown more mental toughness of late.

Yes, Dwill deserves more credit for how he played in the second half. More than any player on the team he deserves credit for that. And as the star of this team it makes sense that overall we have improved as a team in the second half. Now, one could point out that our worst stretch was when Lopez was out. Before that...in the first half we were so good Avery Johnson now fired won coach of the month.

So...add it all up and can you see why its suspect to simply connect Deron's improvement to saying something like "more mentally tough" of late?

You have one of our most intense players talking to the press about how his confidence is shot. Another guy who says criticisms from someone on the team made him step up in spite of what they said. A bench player who talks publicly about the coaches having no confidence in him. A superstar who makes faces and pouts when things arent clicking rather than talk to his guys and settle them down. An all star big man who looks like he is in la la land half the time thinking about what he will have for dinner while watching Game Of Thrones on the plane.

The way we almost blew the Indy game. The Toronto game. The Bulls game. Utah? The way we struggled to beat the Suns. The Philly game!!! That's 6 games in the last 19 or about a third of the games where mental toughness was the #1 problem. Hell, Toronto was a game after we held on to beat Indy after an epic collapse. That was the game of all games that we should have been on a high. Starting to think...hey maybe we CAN get the 3 seed! Maybe 50 IS possible! That is when confidence gives your mental toughness a kick in the ass. And then you get spanked by the Craptors???? The sound effect you should be hearing in the background right now is something like the when the guy guesses wrong on the Price is right. "Wuh...waaaaah!"

I dont begrudge any other positive feelings you might have about the team at this time...but yeah...I would expect of you to acknowledge the point being made to you. Mentally tough and this team have not yet made friends. Maybe in the playoffs? Hope you can see it and admit that you were off on that one.

[enetric]

We will beat the Hawks or the Bulls, if the DWill we get is the DWill we've been seeing.

Edit: But Gerald Wallace needs to come off the bench or get 20 minutes or so. We will get trapped endlessly otherwise. Does PJ have the smarts to do that after what we've seen from them? And there's no question he's a reactive coach, so Gerald will play a ton in the first game regardless.

Now this is something else. Yes, we can win. No question. In fact...WE ARE SUPPOSED TO WIn. We are the higher seed and the more talented roster. Losing as the higher seed is considered an UPSET.

We lose and it wont be for talent. It will most likely be for our lack of mental toughness.

[Nondescript]

snip

As I said before to me the Pacers game showed the the toughness we need to beat the Bulls is completely within our reach and I really feel like that was an effort we wouldn't have gotten before. Whether or not we will have a good outing against Chicago is still in the air but I would be disappointment if we don't since that is totally attainable for us. Do you think you have any predictions about that series or is it just too unsure for you to make that call right now?

[Paradise]

I highly doubt us losing would be to a lack of toughness. I can already see us blowing a game or two due to bad adjustments.

We've lost games against them in the regular season by coaching brain farts. Not toughness or talent.

First game at Chicago, we had a 6 point lead with 3 minutes to go and Avery pulled Lopez who was the guy dominating the Bulls interior because oh is "minutes restriction", Blatche turned it over 2 times in a 1 minute span and the Bulls got multiple layups and pretty much won it in 2 minutes.

Second game at Chicago, Deron/Lopez busted out to a 23-9 lead, PJ pulls Lopez and goes with a Reggie/Blatche/Wallace/Brooks/CJ combo and the lead was gone in no time. Then, The Bulls started using a zone to make Reggie useless and we turned it over atleast 10 times in one quarter and they went up by 15 off turnovers.

Third game, another 16 point lead blown due to the bench inability to play structured basketball. Boozer went off in the 2nd half on Reggie Evans, PJ didn't try at all to make a change there either. It should have never came down to a Lopez missed jumper to win the game. At all.

I am worried about coaching adjustments in game and game to game than anything else. Thank god we have home court. It gives us a better level of urgency and inspired ball for the newbies we have in the playoffs.

[enetric]

snip

As I said before to me the Pacers game showed the the toughness we need to beat the Bulls is completely within our reach and I really feel like that was an effort we wouldn't have gotten before. Whether or not we will have a good outing against Chicago is still in the air but I would be disappointment if we don't since that is totally attainable for us. Do you think you have any predictions about that series or is it just too unsure for you to make that call right now?

I applaud your ability to accent the positive...but how can you cite the Pacers game as proof of our mental toughness? We blew a 24 point lead in the second half!!!!

We held onto that game by the skin of our teeth and perhaps a bit of their team running out of gas. Everyone goes on runs. Mentally tough teams dont allow the other guy a 26 point turnaround in the second half.

Anyway, lets move on.

I flat out EXPECT to win whoever we face. I will not be OK with us losing to anyone in round 1. If we do...to me that shows a complete lack of heart and mental toughness. The Bulls without a fully healthy Rose on paper should be no match for us talent wise. The Hawks who gave away Joe Johnson to us for a bag of pipe cleaners and thumb tacks are also no match in talent.

We lose...there is no we lost to the more talented team. or we should have lost they had home court advantage. We fail to take care of business it is indictment of the hunger and focus of this team. No more excuses. We are here....we have home court. Get it done.


And I will tell you now that most likely any Nets fan who posts here and thinks we will lose? They believe its because we lack that mental toughness. NOT because they are more impressed with the rosters of the Bulls or the Hawks.

I desperately want to be wrong. And I am sure they do to. GET IT DONE.

[Nondescript]

snip

As I said before to me the Pacers game showed the the toughness we need to beat the Bulls is completely within our reach and I really feel like that was an effort we wouldn't have gotten before. Whether or not we will have a good outing against Chicago is still in the air but I would be disappointment if we don't since that is totally attainable for us. Do you think you have any predictions about that series or is it just too unsure for you to make that call right now?

I applaud your ability to accent the positive...but how can you cite the Pacers game as proof of our mental toughness? We blew a 24 point lead in the second half!!!!

We held onto that game by the skin of our teeth and perhaps a bit of their team running out of gas. Everyone goes on runs. Mentally tough teams dont allow the other guy a 26 point turnaround in the second half.

Anyway, lets move on.

I flat out EXPECT to win whoever we face. I will not be OK with us losing to anyone in round 1. If we do...to me that shows a complete lack of heart and mental toughness. The Bulls without a fully healthy Rose on paper should be no match for us talent wise. The Hawks who gave away Joe Johnson to us for a bag of pipe cleaners and thumb tacks are also no match in talent.

We lose...there is no we lost to the more talented team. or we should have lost they had home court advantage. We fail to take care of business it is indictment of the hunger and focus of this team. No more excuses. We are here....we have home court. Get it done.


And I will tell you now that most likely any Nets fan who posts here and thinks we will lose? They believe its because we lack that mental toughness. NOT because they are more impressed with the rosters of the Bulls or the Hawks.

I desperately want to be wrong. And I am sure they do to. GET IT DONE.

They did blow a 24 point lead which is **** terrible. But the hardest thing you can do in this league is win after doing that especially against a team that gets away with murder at home. It was ugly but I never saw us fight back against something ugly like that before. That was like accidentally cutting your foot off and then beating a guy to death with it. I agree with you, if I'm wrong it will basically be our undoing by our own design.

[enetric]

I think the saying is the hardest thing to do in this league is win a close out game in the playoffs. But OK...I can give you that they fought hard in those closing minutes trading 3 point bombs and getting a key stop here and there. I cant applaud it the way you are though because the next day they got pooped on by one of the worst teams in the NBA.

Dont you watch Nets games this year and ever feel like the other team KNOWS it can make a comeback? You dont see that against the Spurs, OKC, Miami...hell even Denver. Teams fight...but against us its like they have read the scouting report.

When I think if how mentally tough plays to your opponent I think of a MLB all star game years ago. Someone on the bench from I forget what team was miked and he says, to Joe Torre "are you going to bring Mariano Rivera in to close?" And Torre says, "Yeah." And the other guy says, "OK good its over". And he starts packing up in the 8th inning.

Same guy if he were asked in game facing the Yankees if he felt his team had a shot in the 9th against Mariano would say...of course we do.

But underneath the false bravado if you look closely you can see who is mentally tough and who isnt.

Want an example? I will swear to this day that Vince Carter was one of the most elite physically gifted athletes and NBA talents we have ever seen. And I mean EVER. And i said that BEFORE he was a Net.

Biggest difference between him and say Kobe? Mental toughness.

[therealbig3]

^You can add T-Mac to that as well...in fact, I think he epitomizes what you're saying. He's actually one of my favorite players to go back and watch clips of, because when he was on, it was a thing of beauty...really wish he had the work ethic and the drive of a Kobe Bryant though, because his physical talent and feel for the game was even better than either Kobe's or Carter's, imo.

[Paradise]

I think the saying is the hardest thing to do in this league is win a close out game in the playoffs. But OK...I can give you that they fought hard in those closing minutes trading 3 point bombs and getting a key stop here and there. I cant applaud it the way you are though because the next day they got pooped on by one of the worst teams in the NBA.

Dont you watch Nets games this year and ever feel like the other team KNOWS it can make a comeback? You dont see that against the Spurs, OKC, Miami...hell even Denver. Teams fight...but against us its like they have read the scouting report.

When I think if how mentally tough plays to your opponent I think of a MLB all star game years ago. Someone on the bench from I forget what team was miked and he says, to Joe Torre "are you going to bring Mariano Rivera in to close?" And Torre says, "Yeah." And the other guy says, "OK good its over". And he starts packing up in the 8th inning.

Same guy if he were asked in game facing the Yankees if he felt his team had a shot in the 9th against Mariano would say...of course we do.

But underneath the false bravado if you look closely you can see who is mentally tough and who isnt.

Want an example? I will swear to this day that Vince Carter was one of the most elite physically gifted athletes and NBA talents we have ever seen. And I mean EVER. And i said that BEFORE he was a Net.

Biggest difference between him and say Kobe? Mental toughness.

Actually, I thought that Raptor game showed some growth and the Wizards game to a lesser degree showed growth.

Now, obviously, they shouldn't have been down 20 to the Raptors but the fact the Raptors had played their best game of the season and they came back into the game with ease began some sort of break through. Wizards game they could have packed it in at home in a meaningless game but the bench who has been the biggest issue actually showed some poise and won the game after being down by 24.

Does this team have lack of mental fortitude? Yes but that also can be attributed to the fact this is literally their 1st season together. Teams like OKC, Denver, Boston, SA have been together for multiple years to the point where they have experienced it all and there not going to panic in large leads or comeback situations.

Aside from the asinine plays and sometimes lackluster effort, there really is nothing I've seen collectively that a brand new put together team hasn't gone through in the first year. The fact, they played like garbage against the Bobcats, barely won and the first thing you heard was players addressing it then coming out and going on a blowout streak through Philly, Boston, Indy showed a sign of growth.

[enetric]

^You can add T-Mac to that as well...in fact, I think he epitomizes what you're saying. He's actually one of my favorite players to go back and watch clips of, because when he was on, it was a thing of beauty...really wish he had the work ethic and the drive of a Kobe Bryant though, because his physical talent and feel for the game was even better than either Kobe's or Carter's, imo.

I think he was also impressive but I disagree that he was as good as either.

VC had the full package. In addition to being one of the sickest athletic talents we have ever sen he also had shooting range on par with the elite absolute best we have ever seen. This is a guy in his prime that could shoot from 28 feet and make it look like a mid range shot and do it at close to .400 while commanding double teams. he was a better play maker than Tmac as well.

Tmac was a scorer. A dominant one. But he wasnt the shooter or play maker VC was. Tmac found a perfect spot in Orlando for a few years and it fit him to a tee. He was special for sure and lots of you younger guys just ate him up. But on pure talent....he was a notch albeit a slight notch lower than what VC or TMAC was.

I might even given him more mental toughness than VC but health wise crapped out too soon. I just dont agree that at their elite best TMac was on the "ability" level VC was.

[enetric]

Paradise really? Are you really going to refer to the Raps game that we were down 20 following a major win against Indy as growth? We came back on them because they were putrid and I am sure they played deeper into their bench. We got spanked by a terrible team.

See, blowing the Indy lead...losing to the Raps a day later...that speaks volumes about their sense of urgency. They knew that the 3 seed suddenly looked plausible. It was a window. Mentally tough teams win the big games. Its really that simple.

A meaningless win against the Wizards...so the hell what.

[MrDollarBills]

Paradise really? Are you really going to refer to the Raps game that we were down 20 following a major win against Indy as growth? We came back on them because they were putrid and I am sure they played deeper into their bench. We got spanked by a terrible team.

See, blowing the Indy lead...losing to the Raps a day later...that speaks volumes about their sense of urgency. They knew that the 3 seed suddenly looked plausible. It was a window. Mentally tough teams win the big games. Its really that simple.

A meaningless win against the Wizards...so the hell what.

Exactly. Where is the killer instinct?

There have been so many inexcusable losses and imo, complete and utter apathy displayed by this team at times that I'm not sure where this confidence is coming from.

[CalamityX12]

In reference to the Toronto game.... while I am not serving any excuses as the Nets disappointed me once again.... DeRozan was not missing at all... that **** was dialed in and is becoming a sneaky Net killer over there in Canada...

[Paradise]

See, blowing the Indy lead...losing to the Raps a day later...that speaks volumes about their sense of urgency. They knew that the 3 seed suddenly looked plausible. It was a window. Mentally tough teams win the big games. Its really that simple.

First off, it was no surprise the Pacers made a run. We shot 70% freaking percent and it was bound to come down. We did not pace ourselves in that game at all.

It has nothing to do with "urgency" if after the Pacers game they all said they wanted to win badly to get that 3rd seed and one of the main pieces has the worst game of the season, that doesn't automatically mean the team didn't care.

Fact is, the Raptors played their best ball and Lopez sucked in a game which turned out to be winnable and he provided nothing. They shouldn't have lost at all but it's not "mentally weak" either.

A prime example of a mentally weak performance: Losing to the Bulls win a tiebreaker was on the line after a 16 point lead throughout the game.

[PetroNet]

we have easily one of the worst teams in the league as far as mental toughness... and among playoff teams by far the worst in that regard.

We fold anytime there is adversity

once we get down things spiral out of control and rarely to we comeback to win or ever even make it close

when our guys miss shots they sulk and get depressed instead of fighting through it

after terrible or embarassing losses we dont follow up with strong efforts and usually play even worse the next time out

if someone/some people play awful no one cares or gets on them

[enetric]

See, blowing the Indy lead...losing to the Raps a day later...that speaks volumes about their sense of urgency. They knew that the 3 seed suddenly looked plausible. It was a window. Mentally tough teams win the big games. Its really that simple.

First off, it was no surprise the Pacers made a run. We shot 70% freaking percent and it was bound to come down. We did not pace ourselves in that game at all.

It has nothing to do with "urgency" if after the Pacers game they all said they wanted to win badly to get that 3rd seed and one of the main pieces has the worst game of the season, that doesn't automatically mean the team didn't care.

Fact is, the Raptors played their best ball and Lopez sucked in a game which turned out to be winnable and he provided nothing. They shouldn't have lost at all but it's not "mentally weak" either.

A prime example of a mentally weak performance: Losing to the Bulls win a tiebreaker was on the line after a 16 point lead throughout the game.

Yes...not surprised to ever see a run when you are up big.
But a run is 10 points....not 25 in the second half!!!!!!!!! That is called taking it up the crack without lube.

That is called humiliating yourself.