Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I just played the ESPN lotto 10 tries. I seem to be stuck with Len.

1. Wizards at 8 (Len)
2. Wizards at 1 (Noel)
3. Wizards at 8 (Len)
4. Wizards at 3 (Bennett)
5. Wizards at 8 (Muhammad)
6. Wizards at 8 (Len)
7. Wizards at 9 (Len)
8. Wizards at 9 (Len)
9. Wizards at 8 (Len)
10. Wizards at 8 (Len)

FWIW, Pine, I would take Len over Muhammed or Bennett. Scoring Fs who do little else are not that hard to come by. Bennett's going to be pretty good, but not great. At least Len has massive size and some of the things that come with great size.

[mhd]

CCJ, I'm probably one of the few on this board who like Len. He's NOT overraged (only 19), he's got good defensive potential, his rebound rate was just as good as Noel and Zeller, he's an excellent FT for his size, and he's a legit 7'1. He WON'T be a Vesely type bust.

[sfam]

I've read in certain websites that Pelicans fans aren't in love with Greivis as a long-term solution at point guard. They don't like his lack of athletic ability and footspeed, and they think he gets alot of cheap assists. They may take Burke if they feel he's BPA.

I expect them to take Burke. RIvers was HORRIBLE and they can't count on him. Burke gives them a cheap backup PG and insurance if Vasquez gets a big deal. I also think they could conceivably trade Vasquez and their pick for Jrue Holliday. Philly needs to tank and Holliday is their best chip.

No way they trade Jrue Holiday. They're gonna build around him. Nobody who has just fallen off the wagon says, "Lets get rid of our best player so we can improve." I'd bet they dump everyone else first. More likely though, they try to recover without a massive rebuild.

[hands11]

I just played the ESPN lotto 10 tries. I seem to be stuck with Len.

1. Wizards at 8 (Len)
2. Wizards at 1 (Noel)
3. Wizards at 8 (Len)
4. Wizards at 3 (Bennett)
5. Wizards at 8 (Muhammad)
6. Wizards at 8 (Len)
7. Wizards at 9 (Len)
8. Wizards at 9 (Len)
9. Wizards at 8 (Len)
10. Wizards at 8 (Len)

FWIW, Pine, I would take Len over Muhammed or Bennett. Scoring Fs who do little else are not that hard to come by. Bennett's going to be pretty good, but not great. At least Len has massive size and some of the things that come with great size.

You can't teach that kind of size and athleticism.

He is already 7-1 255 and he has the shoulders and frame to hold more weight comfortably without slowing him down. He is going to be way more mobile then Hibbert. I expect Len to be 260 plus when he enters the league. He will be near 275 by year two and still athletic.

Zeller ? He can barely get up to dunk the ball as it is. As he adds weight so he isn't pushed around, he is only going to get more floor bound. Zellers produced based on him getting to the line because he jumps into everyone. If he doesn't get that call in the NBA, his game is toast. He will get forced to the outside and he has no outside game.

Len, Otto, Noel and McLemore are the 4 top tier pro prospects with CJM right in there.
VO is the opposite of Bennett. A can't miss pro defender who needs to expand his offense.
Bennett is a little undersized but strong and long. Nice offense but a defensive risk.
Burke is somewhere in this 2nd level. Great mind. Nice Skills. I can see Burke over VO and Bennett or after. Tough call.

I put Zeller below all these players.

Actually I would take Plumlee, Dieng, Withey, Muscala and Kelly Olynyk before I would take Zeller.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

I'm so confused on whom wizards can get with the 8 pick. no one in here has mention Glen Robinson 111 he can play small forward.

I thought that if the Wizards were to find themselves falling out of the top 8 that they should consider using the pick in a trade for an NBA player. After Thursday, it really sounds like the Wizards could be intent on doing that regardless of where the team picks, save they jump into the top three.

These are my top 8 (without reaching):

1. Noel
2. McLemore
3. Zeller
4. Porter
5. Muhammad
6. Bennett
7. Olynyk
8. Oladipo

Any of these players (still very wary of Muhammad) and the Wizards would've have upgraded the roster heading into next season I believe.

[stevemcqueen1]

I'm so confused on whom wizards can get with the 8 pick. no one in here has mention Glen Robinson 111 he can play small forward.

I thought that if the Wizards were to find themselves falling out of the top 8 that they should consider using the pick in a trade for an NBA player. After Thursday, it really sounds like the Wizards could be intent on doing that regardless of where the team picks, save they jump into the top three.

These are my top 8 (without reaching):

1. Noel
2. McLemore
3. Zeller
4. Porter
5. Muhammad
6. Bennett
7. Olynyk
8. Oladipo

Any of these players (still very wary of Muhammad) and the Wizards would've have upgraded the roster heading into next season I believe.

It doesn't make sense to trade the pick for a vet. We're already spending too much money on the roster as is. Nene, Ariza, and Okafor are all dramatically overpaid. Plus it's a bad class, no one is going to trade anything of value for the 8th pick. Many teams will be looking to trade down or out. We get way more upside and long term value out of just using the pick.

I like your list and mine is similar:

1.) Noel
2.) McLemore
3.) Bennett
4.) Zeller
5.) Porter
6.) Oladipo
7.) Burke
8.) Muhammad
9.) Len

That would be my board right now for any team, regardless of need. Hopefully Zeller or Porter drops to us.

[closg00]

CCJ, I'm probably one of the few on this board who like Len. He's NOT overraged (only 19), he's got good defensive potential, his rebound rate was just as good as Noel and Zeller, he's an excellent FT for his size, and he's a legit 7'1. He WON'T be a Vesely type bust.

Do you trust the Wizards to take their time and properly develop Len if he were to be drafted by us? There is Zero evidence that they will. Sorry. The Wizards would be better-off with something they can't f*k-up like Zeller or someone else.

[stevemcqueen1]

I'm still a little wary of McLemore and I'll be relieved to not have to draft him. First there is his age. He's 21 and a year and a half older than Beal. Mediocre shot creator and that's something extremely hard to learn, so many hours spent in the gym and he's behind the curve coming in. Every star offensive player spends their summers constantly getting better at this, when does McLemore catch up? Total freak athlete, but so was TRob and he's been bad so far. And TBH, Kasas prospects have sucked in the NBA in the Bill Self era. McLemore has confidence issues IMO, he lacks confidence in his ability to create and therefor doesn't typically try to, plus he's kept on a tight leash in Self's offense. As a result, he disappears too often.

McLemore has ready skills and athleticism though, he won't suck. But I get the feeling he's just going to be a super role player and a disappointment with the first or second pick. I get an OJ Mayo vibe from him.

[stevemcqueen1]

CCJ, I'm probably one of the few on this board who like Len. He's NOT overraged (only 19), he's got good defensive potential, his rebound rate was just as good as Noel and Zeller, he's an excellent FT for his size, and he's a legit 7'1. He WON'T be a Vesely type bust.

Do you trust the Wizards to take their time and properly develop Len if he were to be drafted by us? There is Zero evidence that they will. Sorry. The Wizards would be better-off with something they can't f*k-up like Zeller or someone else.

Agreed. Wittman is not a talent developer. Beal and Wall are the only young players thriving under him. Vesely, Seraphin, and Singleton each dramatically regressed this year. We really need to get a player who is already confident and already knows how to play the game. That's why I hope we come away with Zeller or Porter.

[payitforward]

That would be me that was posting endlessly about Vucevic

You nailed that one. And you weren't alone. NV was moving up the draft boards so quickly that had the draft been delayed 2 weeks he might have gone #6. Oh wait... that was us and that would have been a pretty good pick. I guess I mean he might have gone #7.

I would draft CJM before I would draft Shabazz

I would draft Tomas Satoransky before I'd draft Shabazz. Oh wait... we already did draft Satoransky! Oh wait... I know -- I'd draft Shelvin Mack before I'd draft Shabazz. Oh wait....

[payitforward]

...Wittman is not a talent developer. Beal and Wall are the only young players thriving under him. Vesely, Seraphin, and Singleton each dramatically regressed this year....

You mean Wittman is not a miracle worker.

The mistakes Seraphin commits over and over, and his low rebounding skills, are on him not coaching. Singleton never gave any reason to think he had much upside; he was a mediocre college player and not particularly young either -- terrible pick.

As to Vesely, are you really going to put his 'lack of development' on the shoulders of the head coach?

Guys with talent and work ethic get better in their early 20s through about 24-25. The effect of their coaches on that is marginal at best.

[pancakes3]

I think we Wizards fans are too scarred by draft prospects that don't pan out that we've overemphasized the "talent development" aspect in looking for a scapegoat as to why we suck. To be honest, I don't believe that other teams have better "talent developers". It's just that they draft better. Whether or not a player improves is almost entire up to that individual. This is the NBA. This is the premiere professional basketball league. They're not going to teach someone how to play basketball. The expectation should be that they already know. After all, it's just a game.

You wouldn't hear about how the Chargers failed to develop Ryan Leaf.

[sfam]

I'm still a little wary of McLemore and I'll be relieved to not have to draft him. First there is his age. He's 21 and a year and a half older than Beal. Mediocre shot creator and that's something extremely hard to learn, so many hours spent in the gym and he's behind the curve coming in. Every star offensive player spends their summers constantly getting better at this, when does McLemore catch up? Total freak athlete, but so was TRob and he's been bad so far. And TBH, Kasas prospects have sucked in the NBA in the Bill Self era. McLemore has confidence issues IMO, he lacks confidence in his ability to create and therefor doesn't typically try to, plus he's kept on a tight leash in Self's offense. As a result, he disappears too often.

McLemore has ready skills and athleticism though, he won't suck. But I get the feeling he's just going to be a super role player and a disappointment with the first or second pick. I get an OJ Mayo vibe from him.

He's definitely too passive at key times. He often passes when its clear his team expects him to take the shot. This may be a confidence thing, I don't know. I agree that's a concern, but you gotta believe good coaching could solve that. Whether the Wizards are capable of giving McLemore what he needs is debatable.

[hands11]

That would be me that was posting endlessly about Vucevic

CJM moving the the board. Went from 14th to 9th in the mock draft machine.

Wait until he gets to workout for people and they see him healthy.

I would draft CJM before I would draft Shabazz

I also would take CJM before Shabazz. I wish we could pull a move to add a pick and draft CJM.

I don't think moving down will be needed anymore. I think CJM is going to be moving up.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... dy-For-NBA

Just like VO moved up and Otto moved up. Two other of my early targets.
I also expected Shabazz to drop. He did.
I said Smart wasn't all that and he decided to drop out to stay in school.
I said stay away from Isaiah Austin, he dropped. He should stay in school another year. He has some talent.
Zeller may not drop, but he should.

The next one I expect to move up is Muscala. I just don't see how he would go 7th in the 2nd. That would be such a steal. He and Erik Murphy are going to be great value in the 2nd, but I guess its because they are seniors.

Dieng and Withey have moved up already. Not sure how much more they will or not. I wanted us to get one of them with a late first we acquired in a trade down were we could get CJM and one of them. Doesn't look like that is possible anymore. If we were to add another first, its going to have to come in a trade.

So while I have posted how much I liked CJM, Otto and VO early on, we may only get one good shot at this in the first and if I had to do that today, I would take "LEN" If we don't get Len, we need to add Dieng or Withey or even Plumlee.

I had my questions about Len early on, but what I saw of him in the NIT changed that. I think he is legit. I would have no problem going into a game with Len matched against Noel or any of the other centers in this class. And in a year or two, I think he can anchor a team defensively against a Hibbert or Noah or Varejao.

We have to go up against Indy and NY in the coming years. Also, someone in the East may land Noel. We are in the East. You want a tall strong athletic center and I think Len will be that and we are missing that. That is the area of biggest need on this team right now. Otto would be nice, but Trevor A and Webster are both 26/27. CJM would be really nice, but we have Beal and we can pick up a second guard in other ways.

We need a tall athletic strong young center. Nene and Okafor are getting old. Kevin S and Ves are not the answer.

[stevemcqueen1]

...Wittman is not a talent developer. Beal and Wall are the only young players thriving under him. Vesely, Seraphin, and Singleton each dramatically regressed this year....

You mean Wittman is not a miracle worker.

The mistakes Seraphin commits over and over, and his low rebounding skills, are on him not coaching. Singleton never gave any reason to think he had much upside; he was a mediocre college player and not particularly young either -- terrible pick.

As to Vesely, are you really going to put his 'lack of development' on the shoulders of the head coach?

Guys with talent and work ethic get better in their early 20s through about 24-25. The effect of their coaches on that is marginal at best.

Wittman absolutely stunted their development. He pulled them after they miss shots from the get go this season and then buried them on the bench for a month or two before they saw the floor again. No young player in the league can possibly develop the confidence he needs that way. And they never played meaningful minutes.

Young players must get minutes and have a clearly defined roles to develop. Wittman never gave those three a clear role and he barely even played Singleton and Vesely, even when there were a bunch of injuries early in the year and the only alternative was playing and losing with a bunch of no upside mediocre vets instead. Wittman chose the alternative.

Wittman didn't have any defined roles for any player on the team coming into the season really. He used the first half of the season for experimentation to figure the roles and lineups out and we were the worst team in the NBA for most of the process, 0-12 to star, 4-28 by January. That was pretty inexcusable. What was he doing during the offseason if not figuring out his team? Other teams came into the season with injuries to their stars and weren't historically bad. Wittman is not a teacher and he doesn't seem to know how to develop young players. He's the same guy that made Kevin Love stop taking 3s...

Other organizations do teach the game to their young players and successfully develop them. Saying the only problem is that we draft poorly requires hindsight bias and lets Wittman off the hook for his failures. Vesely and Singleton were universally rated about where we took them in 2011, same with Seraphin in 2010. They weren't reaches on draft day. We're failing to develop them. They've all actually gotten worse this season.

[Wizardspride]

I had my questions about Len early on, but what I saw of him in the NIT changed that. I think he is legit. I would have no problem going into a game with Len matched against Noel or any of the other centers in this class. And in a year or two, I think he can anchor a team defensively against a Hibbert or Noah or Varejao.

We have to go up against Indy and NY in the coming years. Also, someone in the East may land Noel. We are in the East. You want a tall strong athletic center and I think Len will be that and we are missing that. That is the area of biggest need on this team right now. Otto would be nice, but Trevor A and Webster are both 26/27. CJM would be really nice, but we have Beal and we can pick up a second guard in other ways.

We need a tall athletic strong young center. Nene and Okafor are getting old. Kevin S and Ves are not the answer.

Welcome aboard!

Other than Noel, Alex is the only guy I'm really interested in.

[jivelikenice]

I think we Wizards fans are too scarred by draft prospects that don't pan out that we've overemphasized the "talent development" aspect in looking for a scapegoat as to why we suck. To be honest, I don't believe that other teams have better "talent developers". It's just that they draft better. Whether or not a player improves is almost entire up to that individual. This is the NBA. This is the premiere professional basketball league. They're not going to teach someone how to play basketball. The expectation should be that they already know. After all, it's just a game.

You wouldn't hear about how the Chargers failed to develop Ryan Leaf.

It's a 50/50 deal. The player has to have the work ethic, but the team has to put him in a serious environment and focus on all aspects of skill development. Look at Seraphin...you don't think he'd be further along in knowing how to play if he was playing for Pop? Lets look at the flip side, would Taiggo have come along as well as he has in DC? I think that's a safe no.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, I'm probably one of the few on this board who like Len. He's NOT overraged (only 19), he's got good defensive potential, his rebound rate was just as good as Noel and Zeller, he's an excellent FT for his size, and he's a legit 7'1. He WON'T be a Vesely type bust.

Alex is better at both ends of the court than Vesely.

mhd, I like Alex Len A WHOLE LOT MORE since coming across this:

http://www.insidethehall.com/2013/04/08 ... -zeller-2/
.

Cody Zeller, who led NCAA bigs in transition points might be the player who falls to where the Wizards draft--which is what led me to this factoid. However, what thrilled me is Alex Len's PPTP. Len had the highest rate of converted points per transition opportunities, which means to me with a PG like Wall, Alex Len could become a pretty devastating scorer. I think you're right about Alex Len, mhd.

I'm waffling back to liking Len, and blaming most of his problems on Maryland's crappy guards and Len's youthful inexperience. Len simply had the fewest possessions, but he made the most of his opportunities to score in transition. He should be able to improve in the NBA because Len is only 19.

[Wizardspride]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/co ... story.html

“Alex has been a pro every day since he’s gotten here,” added Turgeon, who believes Len’s outside shooting ability will be showcased more at the next level. “I think the NBA game will suit him better than the college game did.”

On that point, Len just smiled when asked if he would miss the double- and triple-teams he faced in the post this past season. “Exactly,” he said, noting he would like to model his game after NBA stars Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan, two players he watches frequently on television.

[hands11]

That would be me that was posting endlessly about Vucevic

You nailed that one. And you weren't alone. NV was moving up the draft boards so quickly that had the draft been delayed 2 weeks he might have gone #6. Oh wait... that was us and that would have been a pretty good pick. I guess I mean he might have gone #7.

I would draft CJM before I would draft Shabazz

I would draft Tomas Satoransky before I'd draft Shabazz. Oh wait... we already did draft Satoransky! Oh wait... I know -- I'd draft Shelvin Mack before I'd draft Shabazz. Oh wait....

Its all good PIF. Rarely is anyone here the only one to post about a player. Just pointing out who was pimping him that year. We all find players we lock in on. That year I wanted Nikola and it sucks we didn't get him. Dude is blowing up this year.

Vucevic was hardly a board favorite. The chatter was about Kanter and how we trade up to get him.
CCJ was going hard for Faried
There was lots about D Williams talk. I said stay away. Hated him as our pick.
Some about Singleton who we actually picked and people liked.
Some more chatter about Kawhi and Tobias. I was more interesting in TB then Kawhi for us.

There wasn't a lot of chatter about Nikola. Specially early on. I think most of that was lead by me. Not saying I was the only one that liked him. Just that he was a main target of mine and I posted about it a lot like CCJ did about Faried.

I actually wondered if I was wrong about him. He didn't do much his first year and then he was traded.

Hey, every year we all post about lots of players but we also tend to focus in on a smaller sub set and post repeatedly about those players.

We had a small group of Drummonds fans last year. Not that everyone who didn't want us to pick him thought he would be bad, they just didn't think he was the right fit right now or worth the risk. Me, I was all about Beal early and often. You know, the how important is a interview stuff. Did others eventually get on the Beal bus? Yeep. Was I the first to ever mention his name? Nope. I rarely posted in draft threads that started the day the season started. But I was posting about he a tone while others were posting about Davis and MKG once we got draft mode. Eventually he become the consensus pick by most here.

We had lots of A Davis posts. Tons of love for MKG. Right up until the end some wanted MKG over Beal. Me, I never wanted MKG and actually even posted about trade down options if we got the #1.

I wanted Beal whos stock rose from 10th to 3rd. My other main view early in the process was a trade down it we got the first or 2nd pick. Early on, I suggested a trade down for Lillard and Zeller which others here held the same view. Lillard would have been a great pick if Wall didn't work out. Zeller, not so much. But that was based on me saying A Davis would get beat up his first year as a center in the NBA and that it would take him 3 years to get stronger to play that position. Didn't realize he would be playing PF. I was looking for getting value on that #1 pick by getting a guard and a post player.

While Lillard is a really nice player, not drafting A Davis would have been a big mistake. But thankfully we got Beal out of that draft as we were not presented with the A Davis option And at the end of the day, we were luck we had the 3rd pick because he moved up so much. We almost didn't get him. He could have gone 2nd.

So I don't get everything perfectly right, but every year I do seem to lock in on players that move rapidly up the charts come draft day. This year is was Otto, CJM and VO.

Now, here is one I had interest in that hasn't paned out. What the hell happened ? Sounds like some mismanagement of his stills is in part to blame.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Wes ... nson-1215/

He is with PHX now but he is a FA coming off the rookie contract of 4.3M. Someone if going to pick him up cheap this year and in the right situation, he might be able to get it going.