Derrick Rose Thread #13 - Acceptance

[JeremyB0001]

So because he looks good in warmups, he can automatically come back and play in physical playoff games? Seriously? Why not work his way back through summer league, training camp, pre-season games and then early regular season games?

Which plan works better for his long-term success? You guys are focused on this year when you should be focused on the next 10.

There was an obvious avenue for Derrick to ease his way back into games, if that's what he needs. It was to start playing 10 or 15 minutes per game in March. If it is imprudent for Derrick to return now, the only person responsible for creating this situation is Derrick Rose.

And the idea that the only way to return from ACL surgery is to miss a full season and then return in the preseason is insane. Most players don't return that way. And when players do that its because they are medically cleared during the offseason.

It's funny that you claim to be focused on the next 10 years. Your position is that it's wrong to ask Derrick to return before he feels ready, regardless of when that happens. By that logic, if Derrick doesn't feel ready anytime in the next ten years, he shouldn't come back and we shouldn't complain about it.

[DaMayor73]

So because he looks good in warmups, he can automatically come back and play in physical playoff games? Seriously? Why not work his way back through summer league, training camp, pre-season games and then early regular season games?

Which plan works better for his long-term success? You guys are focused on this year when you should be focused on the next 10.

There was an obvious avenue for Derrick to ease his way back into games, if that's what he needs. It was to start playing 10 or 15 minutes per game in March. If it is imprudent for Derrick to return now, the only person responsible for creating this situation is Derrick Rose.

And the idea that the only way to return from ACL surgery is to miss a full season and then return in the preseason is insane. Most players don't return that way. And when players do that its because they are medically cleared during the offseason.

It's funny that you claim to be focused on the next 10 years. Your position is that it's wrong to ask Derrick to return before he feels ready, regardless of when that happens. By that logic, if Derrick doesn't feel ready anytime in the next ten years, he shouldn't come back and we shouldn't complain about it.

No, returning in March, during the heat of a playoff run in the regular season is not the prudent way to ease back into action. The prudent way is just like I stated above. And who cares how most players return to action in the past? NONE of those players were MVP-caliber players with the responsibility Rose has on this team. So anecdotal stories about other players don't mean a hill of beans here. It is apples and oranges.

[coldfish]

Why would we care about the next 10. He is only under contract for 4 more years after this year. Beyond that, I guarantee you that he is not an elite player worth building a team around at age 34.

By not playing this year, Rose:
- Gives up 20% of the playoff runs under his current deal, which might be his last one in Chicago.
- Makes it difficult for Chicago to plan for next year
- Delays getting over the mental hurdle until next year
- Loses a year of playoff experience, or should I say, another year
There are a whole lot of negatives for Rose not playing this year. Again, I have no idea what is going on with Rose. If he really is in bad shape and his leg could fall off at any minute, I can see why waiting would be good for him. Of course, if that's true he shouldn't be practicing and we should really worry about him ever recovering.

I can't overstate this, the way things have turned out, this injury is going to throw 3 years of Derrick's career in the toilet. Last year, this year and next year.

So because there is a chance he could move elsewhere after this contract means he should jeopardize his future success for some playoff run this year? Again, there is no downside for the approach he is taking. The Owner is on board. The Front Office is on board. His coach is on board. His teammates are on board. The entire NBA community is on board. But you and others aren't. Hmmm......

Many threads ago, someone used this analogy. Do you live in a world where you tell your boss to his face that he isn't very good at his job? Do people tell their wives that they could stand to lose a few pounds?

In the world I live in, NBA players don't call out random NBA players. Front offices don't bash their players publicly. Someone shoving a mic in Carmelo Anthony's face and asking him "what do you think of Derrick Rose?!?!?", and him saying "I think its fine." Isn't news and it isn't support. Its player speak for "no comment".

I'm not on board or off board though. I'm merely pointing out that what Rose is doing:
- Doesn't match what everyone else does
- Hurts himself
- Hurts his team
- Doesn't match what doctors say he should be doing

Why he is doing this is an unknown to me so I cannot offer an informed opinion judging the decision.

[Zeb]

The heat of a playoff run in March, one in which we were already practically guaranteed a playoff spot? Now that's too much stress? Just how delicate is he?

[whodey]

I really don't care what most players have done in the past. Rose is not most players, he's a unique talent that relies on hard cuts and explosiveness to be effective.

I also don't understand the rhetoric around what if he's not ready next year? If that's the case, I'll start questioning him as well as the knee. I've said it over and over, he got hurt at the wrong time, and him sitting out has been a possibility since the timeframe was announced last May.

I also don't see how he's throwing next year down the toilet, it makes no sense to me. He's going to be in full throttle by mid November to early January.

[lu9]

And that mental aspect is a huge factor. And don't discount his mental aspects affecting the physical demands needed to play. He has to be able to just play and react. If there is any doubts in his mind, he risks being ineffective and possibly injured again. Why risk that now? Just makes no sense.

I've asked this before and here I am asking again. Does time heal mental injuries? Serious question.

[DaMayor73]

And that mental aspect is a huge factor. And don't discount his mental aspects affecting the physical demands needed to play. He has to be able to just play and react. If there is any doubts in his mind, he risks being ineffective and possibly injured again. Why risk that now? Just makes no sense.

I've asked this before and here I am asking again. Does time heal mental injuries? Serious question.

As a combat veteran with diagnosed PTSD, the answer is yes. Time heals mental injuries and mental blocks.

[JeremyB0001]

No, returning in March, during the heat of a playoff run in the regular season is not the prudent way to ease back into action. The prudent way is just like I stated above. And who cares how most players return to action in the past? NONE of those players were MVP-caliber players with the responsibility Rose has on this team. So anecdotal stories about other players don't mean a hill of beans here. It is apples and oranges.

Just to be sure that I understand you: any elite player that suffers a serious injury should ignore the timelines set by his team and his doctor and the amount of time it has historically taken players to return from the same injury to ensure that they return during the next preseason? I suppose this is true even if the player is medically cleared five games into the season? He should sit the next 77 games and the playoffs to ensure he can ease his way back in during the next preseason?

Edit: Also, since appeal to authority is your preferred method of argumentation, might it be a good idea to have at least one doctor and pro trainer sign off on this new approach that you, and perhaps Derrick's camp, have invented?

By the way, trying unorthodox, untested recovery techniques just because an player is MVP-caliber is brilliant. Maybe Derrick should have gone to a foreign country and had some experimental, risky, new surgery since his game is not identical to the athletes that have previously torn an ACL.

[whodey]

And that mental aspect is a huge factor. And don't discount his mental aspects affecting the physical demands needed to play. He has to be able to just play and react. If there is any doubts in his mind, he risks being ineffective and possibly injured again. Why risk that now? Just makes no sense.

I've asked this before and here I am asking again. Does time heal mental injuries? Serious question.

It does when you've already told yourself that coming back next year is the smart move. When you go against it, you're mentally questioning your decision on the court.

[DanTown8587]

I don't get how people are continuing to side with Rose on this one. His brother (or Rich Bucher's sources) came out in December and gave clear reasons why Derrick might not play. To further the matter, NONE of the beat reporters thought Derrick was coming back when there was a mountain of evidence to support Rose's return was any day.

Taking a year to recover form an ACL injury is bad and sucks but in the rare case some guys don't adjust well and it happens. The absolutely glaring thing is that THIS ENTIRE SITUATION was predicted in December. Why people continue to gloss over that fact, I don't know.

The best example I could give is if you get in a car accident. Car accidents are unpredictable and terrible and have many different types of outcomes (just like recovering from ACL surgery). You know what makes you look bad though? When you predict the accident three months before it happens.

[DanTown8587]

No, returning in March, during the heat of a playoff run in the regular season is not the prudent way to ease back into action. The prudent way is just like I stated above. And who cares how most players return to action in the past? NONE of those players were MVP-caliber players with the responsibility Rose has on this team. So anecdotal stories about other players don't mean a hill of beans here. It is apples and oranges.

Just to be sure that I understand you: any elite player that suffers a serious injury should ignore the timelines set by his team and his doctor and the amount of time it has historically taken players to return from the same injury to ensure that they return during the next preseason? I suppose this is true even if the player is medically cleared five games into the season? He should sit the next 77 games and the playoffs to ensure he can ease his way back in during the next preseason?

By the way, trying unorthodox, untested recovery techniques just because an player is MVP-caliber is brilliant. Maybe Derrick should have gone to a foreign country and had some experimental, risky, new surgery since his game is not identical to the athletes that have previously torn an ACL.

No, he should have decided to not have surgery. Remember, Derrick cannot make a bad decision and going against the medical profession is perfectly OK when you're a MVP candidate. In fact, if Derrick had some crazy "I'm not having surgery, I'm naturally letting the knee heal, it supposedly heals slower but back to full strength" or some crap, his choice. It's the idea that he follows conventional medical science all the way until it calls for him to play basketball again, yet now he feels practical science and how ACL rehabs have gone are no longer for him.

[DaMayor73]

Many threads ago, someone used this analogy. Do you live in a world where you tell your boss to his face that he isn't very good at his job? Do people tell their wives that they could stand to lose a few pounds?

In the world I live in, NBA players don't call out random NBA players. Front offices don't bash their players publicly. Someone shoving a mic in Carmelo Anthony's face and asking him "what do you think of Derrick Rose?!?!?", and him saying "I think its fine." Isn't news and it isn't support. Its player speak for "no comment".

I'm not on board or off board though. I'm merely pointing out that what Rose is doing:
- Doesn't match what everyone else does
- Hurts himself
- Hurts his team
- Doesn't match what doctors say he should be doing

Why he is doing this is an unknown to me so I cannot offer an informed opinion judging the decision.

So is your theory that everyone from Reinsdorf on down are lying? All of the former players are not keeping things real?

1. Who cares if what he is doing match other inferior players comback timeframes?
2. How has he hurt himself except to unreasonable fans and talk radio clowns?
3. His team was going to be affected as soon as he tore his ACL last year. No way around this fact. The doctor said 8-12 months. We are still within that timeframe.
4. Again, you or anyone does not know what doctor's advice he is receiving. And again, the doctor that performed the surgery said 8-12 months. And we are not past that timeframe.

[DanTown8587]

And that mental aspect is a huge factor. And don't discount his mental aspects affecting the physical demands needed to play. He has to be able to just play and react. If there is any doubts in his mind, he risks being ineffective and possibly injured again. Why risk that now? Just makes no sense.

I've asked this before and here I am asking again. Does time heal mental injuries? Serious question.

As a combat veteran with diagnosed PTSD, the answer is yes. Time heals mental injuries and mental blocks.

How do you know it heals Derrick Rose? Remember, MVP play by a different standard in medical recovery according to you. What if the stress of not playing for 18 months and having to be a MVP again starts to effect him? what if his knee has been idle for too long and he can't get the knee to the right level?

[coldfish]

I really don't care what most players have done in the past. Rose is not most players, he's a unique talent that relies on hard cuts and explosiveness to be effective.

I also don't understand the rhetoric around what if he's not ready next year? If that's the case, I'll start questioning him as well as the knee. I've said it over and over, he got hurt at the wrong time, and him sitting out has been a possibility since thettimeframe was announced last May.

I also don't see how he's throwing next year down the toilet, it makes no sense to me. He's going to be in full throttle by mid November to early January.

Jamal Crawford came back in about 7.5 months. I think he relied on hard cuts and explosiveness. If Rose had returned like Crawford, he would have been back in *December*. So, even if you give him a few extra months for him being Derrick Rose, that's still February.

Also, you have the whole Adrian Petersen thing. And please, please don't tell me Rose is somehow more important or has a tougher load on him than Petersen. Petersen cuts and sprints to avoid 250 lb linebackers from jacking him up. At this rate, people are going to talk about AP decades from now. Rose, not so much.

......

To answer your second point, it ties into the first. Rose's recovery by any metric is AWFUL. The Bulls have publicly stated they want to avoid the repeater tax. In order to do so, they need to avoid the tax in 2 of the next 3 years.

If Rose's playing ability is an unknown, would you use up one of your tax years next year? I sure wouldn't. That means the Bulls roster takes even another step back next year as the team cuts salary without trying to add anyone. That's how Rose giving the impression that his recovery is not going well hurts the team next year.

[lu9]

And that mental aspect is a huge factor. And don't discount his mental aspects affecting the physical demands needed to play. He has to be able to just play and react. If there is any doubts in his mind, he risks being ineffective and possibly injured again. Why risk that now? Just makes no sense.

I've asked this before and here I am asking again. Does time heal mental injuries? Serious question.

As a combat veteran with diagnosed PTSD, the answer is yes. Time heals mental injuries and mental blocks.

Wasn't expecting that! Thank you for your service and for enlightening me. 100% real.

[coldfish]

So is your theory that everyone from Reinsdorf on down are lying? All of the former players are not keeping things real?

Yes, that's the way it works. Businesses and businessmen lie to sell a product.

1. Who cares if what he is doing match other inferior players comback timeframes?

Adrian Petersen. Better player. Tougher position. 7.5 month comeback.

Anyone want to bet on if Kobe beats his timeframe?

2. How has he hurt himself except to unreasonable fans and talk radio clowns?

Playing in the playoffs is a useful experience. Also, as everyone has said, the last hurdle is a mental one. Getting over it now will improve his offseason practice routine and allow him to hit the ground running next year.

3. His team was going to be affected as soon as he tore his ACL last year. No way around this fact. The doctor said 8-12 months. We are still within that timeframe.

8-12 months was extremely conservative, but even then, we are a few days from being outside that window.

4. Again, you or anyone does not know what doctor's advice he is receiving. And again, the doctor that performed the surgery said 8-12 months. And we are not past that timeframe.

OK, so in 4 days are you going to come back here and change your opinion?

[DaMayor73]

I really don't care what most players have done in the past. Rose is not most players, he's a unique talent that relies on hard cuts and explosiveness to be effective.

I also don't understand the rhetoric around what if he's not ready next year? If that's the case, I'll start questioning him as well as the knee. I've said it over and over, he got hurt at the wrong time, and him sitting out has been a possibility since thettimeframe was announced last May.

I also don't see how he's throwing next year down the toilet, it makes no sense to me. He's going to be in full throttle by mid November to early January.

Jamal Crawford came back in about 7.5 months. I think he relied on hard cuts and explosiveness. If Rose had returned like Crawford, he would have been back in *December*. So, even if you give him a few extra months for him being Derrick Rose, that's still February.

Also, you have the whole Adrian Petersen thing. And please, please don't tell me Rose is somehow more important or has a tougher load on him than Petersen. Petersen cuts and sprints to avoid 250 lb linebackers from jacking him up. At this rate, people are going to talk about AP decades from now. Rose, not so much.

......

To answer your second point, it ties into the first. Rose's recovery by any metric is AWFUL. The Bulls have publicly stated they want to avoid the repeater tax. In order to do so, they need to avoid the tax in 2 of the next 3 years.

If Rose's playing ability is an unknown, would you use up one of your tax years next year? I sure wouldn't. That means the Bulls roster takes even another step back next year as the team cuts salary without trying to add anyone. That's how Rose giving the impression that his recovery is not going well hurts the team next year.

You can't compare Jamal Crawford to Rose. You definitely can't compare AP to Rose. Everyone heals differently, mentally and physically. You just can't. I know human nature being what it is, we would all like to use anecdotal evidence to try to say Rose is slacking. But again, we shouldn't. Why? Because he knows his physical and mental state. And he is not ready to play.

[DaMayor73]

OK, so in 4 days are you going to come back here and change your opinion?

His surgery was May 12, 2012. So his one year would be up in about 3 weeks. Would you really want him coming back against the Heat, if the Bulls make it that far? I sure wouldn't.

[whodey]

I really don't care what most players have done in the past. Rose is not most players, he's a unique talent that relies on hard cuts and explosiveness to be effective.

I also don't understand the rhetoric around what if he's not ready next year? If that's the case, I'll start questioning him as well as the knee. I've said it over and over, he got hurt at the wrong time, and him sitting out has been a possibility since thettimeframe was announced last May.

I also don't see how he's throwing next year down the toilet, it makes no sense to me. He's going to be in full throttle by mid November to early January.

Jamal Crawford came back in about 7.5 months. I think he relied on hard cuts and explosiveness. If Rose had returned like Crawford, he would have been back in *December*. So, even if you give him a few extra months for him being Derrick Rose, that's still February.

Also, you have the whole Adrian Petersen thing. And please, please don't tell me Rose is somehow more important or has a tougher load on him than Petersen. Petersen cuts and sprints to avoid 250 lb linebackers from jacking him up. At this rate, people are going to talk about AP decades from now. Rose, not so much.

......

To answer your second point, it ties into the first. Rose's recovery by any metric is AWFUL. The Bulls have publicly stated they want to avoid the repeater tax. In order to do so, they need to avoid the tax in 2 of the next 3 years.

If Rose's playing ability is an unknown, would you use up one of your tax years next year? I sure wouldn't. That means the Bulls roster takes even another step back next year as the team cuts salary without trying to add anyone. That's how Rose giving the impression that his recovery is not going well hurts the team next year.

Once again, you're comparing a player that's been to the playoffs 2 or 3 times in his entire career and has been a sixth man his entire career. A player that's relied on a step back jumper, not someone that's relied on getting to the hoop to not only score but set other players up like rose.

At the end of the day, Rose was given an 8-12 month time frame to recover and we're still 2 weeks short of that time frame. He tore his ACL at the wrong time, it is what it is.

As far as the tax goes, let's see how the offseason plays out before discussing the roster. A lot can still happen. I don't see both Deng and Boozer on the team next year and could still see our team being strong.

[kyrv]

Rose's ACL may be healed, but until he mentally can get to the point where he can function on the court during NBA games, he is not fully healed. Everyone is discounting the mental aspect of his recovery. Why? Every NBA player, every teammate, every analyst approves of his choice to sit out. Jerry Reinsdorf approves. The only people not approving (and disparaging Rose) are folks on this board and other fans. Again, I choose to ride with folks that have played the game and coached the game, not RealGM. If Rose needs until next season, fine. Get your body and mind right and seek and destroy all comers.

You really think he's that weak minded? That's like scary weak. Damn.