Derrick Rose Thread #13 - Acceptance

[Dieselbound&Down]

The funny thing about my back and forth with Rerisen: the two points aren't mutually exclusive, really.

Rose is a superstar. He is the first with an ACL tear. And he's taking the longest to come back. And he has a family member who is shooting his mouth off and claiming to call the shots.

Sentence 4 is a part of Sentence 1. Ego is the tax you pay for having a superstar. The 04-05 Bulls were loaded with guys who would race back ASAP as they wanted to build their reputations--earn bloated contract extensions far beyond their worth. We loved their fire, desire and passion...and we wanted nothing more. We had zero desire back then for a 'special' player...i dont think...

Not true. Of course fans wanted a superstar. But it was clear the players on the team were not there and it was really unlikely that any could make that jump. (At that point maybe Chandler and Crawford) The fans were happy with the team that year, though, because the franchise was just coming out of a historically bad stretch of teams that were embarrassing so it was nice to see a team that, although they clearly had limits, played hard, was competitive and was something other than downright awful.

[cark]

I guess I just don't have any problem with Rose not coming back this season. Unlike what some are saying, I don't see it as a binary thing where he's either physically hurt or he's a douchebag.

Mental health is still health. If he's not mentally comfortable with coming back now, then he shouldn't come back. If, by returning, he risks further injury (because of his mindset affecting his play) or psychological damage, its not worth it.

I know one of the main points of sports is that competition is analogous to war, and athletes are stand-ins for soldiers. But this isn't war; the players aren't (despite how they may describe themselves) warriors. While I appreciate an athlete gutting it out for a game or two, I also appreciate one thinking that his long-term concerns can coincide with the best interests of the team, as well -- even if it means the team may suffer some in the short term.

I guess I can't help but think of athletes as real people, and I want them to have long careers -- and healthy lives after their playing days. As much as I love the teams I support, I care about the players, too. I stopped watching football altogether after Dave Duerson's death. I just couldn't support it anymore.

The Bulls should've said, "Derrick is shut down for the season, barring some miracle." That lets Derrick off the hook with fans and the media, while still leaving the door just open for him to return.

[Red Larrivee]

Kyle Korver did this. He was pretty helpful to last year's Bulls

Kyle Korver is not Derrick Rose.

[AAU Teammate]

The funny thing about my back and forth with Rerisen: the two points aren't mutually exclusive, really.

Rose is a superstar. He is the first with an ACL tear. And he's taking the longest to come back. And he has a family member who is shooting his mouth off and claiming to call the shots.

Sentence 4 is a part of Sentence 1. Ego is the tax you pay for having a superstar. The 04-05 Bulls were loaded with guys who would race back ASAP as they wanted to build their reputations--earn bloated contract extensions far beyond their worth. We loved their fire, desire and passion...and we wanted nothing more. We had zero desire back then for a 'special' player...i dont think...

Not true. Of course fans wanted a superstar. But it was clear the players on the team were not there and it was really unlikely that any could make that jump. (At that point maybe Chandler and Crawford) The fans were happy with the team that year, though, because the franchise was just coming out of a historically bad stretch of teams that were embarrassing so it was nice to see a team that, although they clearly had limits, played hard, was competitive and was something other than downright awful.

The end of that post was meant to be sarcasm

[jnrjr79]

Not arguing, but that's sort of a problem.

Then you are free to vote with your feet. There are very few "win at all costs, damn the finances" owners in the league, and you are not entitled to one simply via geography. Become a Mavs fan if that's what you need, because it's not like the situation with the Bulls is likely to change soon.

The Bulls have the 9th highest payroll in the league this year. I'd like to see them be willing to go higher to contend. Miami is #4. OKC is #16. So, it's not axiomatic that in order to contend, you need to be at the top of league payroll. And with the new CBA, increasingly it will actually be to your competitive disadvantage to be way into luxury tax land.

[DaMayor73]

In due time, he will get there. Just not on your or anyone elses timeline. His timeline is the only one that matters. And most reasonable folks are fine with that.

Is this reasonable?

You're going to get in a pool with your friends, no matter what you do the water is going to be the same temperature, either you can jump in and get over it quicker or you can take your time SLOWLY getting into the pool while making all your friends wait on you. The outcome is the same, the only difference is the amount of time you take and you having to deal with everything for a short amount of time(jump in vs slowly entering).

I'm sorry but if Derrick was medically cleared he should have been playing games a few weeks later at the most and would be as good as he's going to get by now. The Bulls would be a better team, Derrick would be past his hangup and the FO would know what they have going into the summer.

So again, his mental confidence in his injury means nothing, right? Just trying to find out where the his mental health comes into play here. Thanks.

[panthermark]

In due time, he will get there. Just not on your or anyone elses timeline. His timeline is the only one that matters. And most reasonable folks are fine with that.

Actually, most reasonable folks are fine with a reasonable timeline.
In modern medicine, 6-9 months is the standard for ACL recovrey. Most NBA players get back on the court in 8-9 months.

Rose was medically cleared for full conatact, full court basketball at 9 months and one week. Even at that time, it was said that he would have to get a lot of practice in before he would play...all of that is resonable. 3 weeks later, it was "re-announced" that he was medically cleared.(nearly 10 months post surgery...longer other recoveries, but still reasonable). Rose said he was healthy, but it was mental at tha point. Most reasonable people said "take another week or two to get your head right".

Reasonable is knowing most players come back around 8.5 months, but being fine with your own player taking 10.5 months to start the in game rehab portion of his comeback.

Yes, it is reasonsable to allow Rose dictate his return, but it is also reasonable to expect him to have started this in game rehab after 10-11 months if he didn't have any setbacks (which he didn't).

[AAU Teammate]

So Red, let me ask you this..only because I'm curious

If the bulls had 10-15 more regular season wins, and currently had that second star on the roster

Would your take on any of this change?

My take is that the amount of outrage I have over something like a delayed rehab plan is mitigated by (1) the employer's expectations (2) the allotments we have to make for superstar ego.

Would I be this patient under a different set of circumstances? It's hard to transport oneself.

[Bulls Forever]

Kyle Korver did this. He was pretty helpful to last year's Bulls

Kyle Korver is not Derrick Rose.

EXACTLY, sir, a player of Derrick's caliber can contribute far more than somebody like Kyle Korver, even at 50%, even if he just stands, passes, shoots in a corner, dribble here and there.

[jnrjr79]

In due time, he will get there. Just not on your or anyone elses timeline. His timeline is the only one that matters. And most reasonable folks are fine with that.

you're defining reasonableness based on who agrees with you!

most of the people on this board are reasonable, generally speaking. and a strong majority feels that rose should've been playing in games for several weeks now

No, a majority of folks dont understand why Rose won't conform to some arbitrary timeline based on anecdotal info. That is all. Thanks.

The timeline is not arbitrary.

Sheesh.

[DaMayor73]

The timeline is not arbitrary.

Sheesh.

It's not? So surely you can point out a MVP-level superstar's torn ACL rehab timeline then. Please link and share. I will wait. Thanks.

[babblin-on]

For the life of me, I have no idea why people defend Rose by bringing up examples of people who had their careers ended by a knee injury.

Same reason other people are bringing up Iman Shumpert, Ricky Rubio and Adrian Peterson.

The difference in the cases of Shumpert, Rubio, and Peterson is that they actually had the same injury, while Arenas' injury was an entirely different one. McDyess' injury was also a different one, different from Arenas' even. Penny's injury was, again a different one from Rose, McDyess and Arenas.

This is pure confirmation bias. Discount or ignore the cases of athletes this century with the same injury, emphasize cases of the injury from 20+ years ago, and cases where players had entirely different injuries. That article is a joke.

[AirP.]

So again, his mental confidence in his injury means nothing, right? Just trying to find out where the his mental health comes into play here. Thanks.

Mental health? We're talking about getting over not having confidence in a reconstructed part of your body, you know how you get over that, you utilize it in the ways you're "worried" about to PROVE to yourself it works, not to expect to wake up one day and say, wow, yesterday I didn't think I could jump hard off it, but today I do, put me in coach I'm all better now!

[DaMayor73]

In due time, he will get there. Just not on your or anyone elses timeline. His timeline is the only one that matters. And most reasonable folks are fine with that.

Actually, most reasonable folks are fine with a reasonable timeline.
In modern medicine, 6-9 months is the standard for ACL recovrey. Most NBA players get back on the court in 8-9 months.

Rose was medically cleared for full conatact, full court basketball at 9 months and one week. Even at that time, it was said that he would have to get a lot of practice in before he would play...all of that is resonable. 3 weeks later, it was "re-announced" that he was medically cleared.(nearly 10 months post surgery...longer other recoveries, but still reasonable). Rose said he was healthy, but it was mental at tha point. Most reasonable people said "take another week or two to get your head right".

Reasonable is knowing most players come back around 8.5 months, but being fine with your own player taking 10.5 months to start the in game rehab portion of his comeback.

Yes, it is reasonsable to allow Rose dictate his return, but it is also reasonable to expect him to have started this in game rehab after 10-11 months if he didn't have any setbacks (which he didn't).

Cool. We finally agree. Let Rose do him. You can expect what you want, but reality his, he will not play until he is mentally and physically able to. As it should be.

[Edvedder10]

espn1000 reporting Rose is out tonight

[Red Larrivee]

Kyle Korver did this. He was pretty helpful to last year's Bulls

Kyle Korver is not Derrick Rose.

EXACTLY, sir, a player of Derrick's caliber can contribute far more than somebody like Kyle Korver, even at 50%, even if he just stands, passes, shoots in a corner, dribble here and there.

Except that's not even remotely plausible.

[DaMayor73]

So again, his mental confidence in his injury means nothing, right? Just trying to find out where the his mental health comes into play here. Thanks.

Mental health? We're talking about getting over not having confidence in a reconstructed part of your body, you know how you get over that, you utilize it in the ways you're "worried" about to PROVE to yourself it works, not to expect to wake up one day and say, wow, yesterday I didn't think I could jump hard off it, but today I do, put me in coach I'm all better now!

Sigh...if only having confidence after a career-threatening injury was this easy. Rose's mental health in this recovery process is being done a huge disservice by you and most others here.

[babblin-on]

The timeline is not arbitrary.

Sheesh.

It's not? So surely you can point out a MVP-level superstar's torn ACL rehab timeline then. Please link and share. I will wait. Thanks.

First you give us a link wherein doctors say that 'MVP-level superstars' call for radically different treatment and rehabs than other players.

[AirP.]

BTW, if it's really taking Derrick this long to get comfortable with his knee, do you have any idea how easy it will be to get Derrick's head out of the game by his defender mentioning he's worried about his knee, it looked like it buckled that last drive or I'd hate to foul you hard and have your knee blow out again.

[Bulls Revenge]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/04/25/ ... cago-fans/

So, tell me Bulls fans, how does that make you feel?

I know how ChicagoNow blogger Steve Huisel thinks Rose’s extended on-court absence makes fans feel. On March 27 he wrote, “If you were to ask a Chicago sports fan who’s on their Mt Rushmore of hated Chicago athletes, the most common responses would include Jay Cutler, Carlos Boozer and Alfonso Soriano. All three players entered this city with great promise and ‘love’ from the fans, but currently walk around with a negative connotation. If Derrick Rose isn’t careful, he might be the fourth head to this dubious ‘Mt Rushmore.’”