Derrick Rose Thread #13 - Acceptance

[panthermark]

Let's assume for this hypothetical that this is all mental, or take your pick, about getting to 100%. How the **** does Ric Bucher know that Rose *won't* get to 100% or over the mental hurdle sometime during these playoffs?

What if this series goes another week and a half, and we beat the Nets in 7 games. We are then past even the 'worst' case 12 month timeline then. Yet apparently, Buches still knows he won't play this year.

Because This Is All Predetermined.

Not sure how many times they have to hit us over the head with it for belief to kick in?

I agree.....they told is....we just didn't believe it. No one (especially Derrick Rose) sits out if they are healthy and there team is in the play-offs. But here we are....

[BULLHITTER]

Because This Is All Predetermined.

for what purpose? and for whose benefit? just not seeing that at all......

I hope that's Bucher and not him but something tells me he's not just making things up randomly.

i can imagine getting asked the same question 100 times a day, 100 different ways, and at some point.....making things up randomly.

[kyrv]

Let's assume for this hypothetical that this is all mental, or take your pick, about getting to 100%. How the **** does Ric Bucher know that Rose *won't* get to 100% or over the mental hurdle sometime during these playoffs?

What if this series goes another week and a half, and we beat the Nets in 7 games. We are then past even the 'worst' case 12 month timeline then. Yet apparently, Buches still knows he won't play this year.

Because This Is All Predetermined.

Not sure how many times they have to hit us over the head with it for belief to kick in?

I agree.....they told is....we just didn't believe it. No one (especially Derrick Rose) sits out if they are healthy and there team is in the play-offs. But here we are....

Well I found it ludicrous that anyone (let alone Derrick) would even consider it. I still don't want to believe it, but acknowledge it is certainly a possible scenario. And I was dragged to that point kicking and screaming.

[kingkirk]

This **** is just annoying now.

STFU Bucher. Im sick of you and your stupid hair being a mouth piece to Derrick and his terrible advisers.

[Rerisen]

for what purpose? and for whose benefit? just not seeing that at all......

For Rose's benefit, they (likely mistakenly) believe it will make him better with more time. There will be less risk of re-injury, obviously true, even if its just normal player risk - can't get hurt if you don't play (ok he could in practice, seems lost on them) - and lastly to expose the roster as inadequate.

Second, don't mask just how flawed this roster is by coming back and finishing up strong.

This season will be worthwhile if, and only if, it convinces management not to exploit Rose's talent

"What have you pieced together? Have you made any moves? Have you made any trades to get better? You know all roads to the championship lead through Miami," Reggie Rose told ESPNChicago.com. "What pieces have you put together for the physical playoffs?

"It's frustrating to see my brother play his heart and soul out for the team and them not put anything around him," Reggie Rose said.

"Everyone is expecting Derrick to come back," Reggie Rose said. "If Derrick comes back, they're going to sell more tickets. Is the reason for Derrick to come back to win a championship or make money? Right now, I don't believe a championship. Everything in the NBA is financial."

People don't like the answers, or don't want to believe them, fine. There are other possibilities, slim though the evidence is for them. But let's not pretend we don't have the reasons for the worst case. We didn't make this crap up as fans, it was stated directly and/or reported by people with inroads to Rose's team.

[kyrv]

for what purpose? and for whose benefit? just not seeing that at all......

For Rose's benefit, they (likely mistakenly) believe it will make him better with more time. There will be less risk of re-injury, obviously true, even if its just normal player risk - can't get hurt if you don't play (ok he could in practice, seems lost on them) - and lastly to expose the roster as inadequate.

Second, don't mask just how flawed this roster is by coming back and finishing up strong.

This season will be worthwhile if, and only if, it convinces management not to exploit Rose's talent

There are the answers. People just don't like them or don't want to believe them. Fine, there are other possibilities, however slim there is evidence for them, but to pretend we don't have reasons for the worse case would not be reality.

Yep the two people that had ACL injuries have been public that they know more than the medical profession and he should at some point not continue the rehab that works and slow his roll.

[BULLHITTER]

People don't like the answers, or don't want to believe them, fine. There are other possibilities, slim though the evidence is for them. But let's not pretend we don't have the reasons for the worst case. We didn't make this crap up as fans, it was stated directly and/or reported by people with inroads to Rose's team.

personally, i had no problem with the non-PC statements by the rose camp; HOWEVER, (and i think someone stated this position early) it's a stretch to attach it to his inability to feel right about his leg. if that's somehow peceived as damaging to the bulls, i'd surmise them to be on much thinner ice than i believed. in either case, rose's camp being aware of rose's value can spew whatever they like; not sure how much impact it'll have on the bulls. my whole attitude toward reggie/bucher/bj's statements are like "so f'n what" bulls tied their hands and the bed was made.

but like i stated, rose only gets one chance at a return. if it doesn't happen right there'll be a lot longer threads than this one.

[Trm3]

You know, I have no doubt that upon returning and playing in games there are often times setbacks and even unusual pains that these players go through, some even say that didn't truly feel healthy or back to their regular selves more than 16 months from their surgery. That's all fine, but the thing is they still played through those initial discomfort, and no one reinjured themselves, they simply didn't have the same impact as they may or wanted to have until later on in the process.

Derrick refusal to return and play games until he feels back to his regular self is putting such extreme pressure on himself, and his stubbornness to not even attempt to take some baby steps by playing a few minutes here and a few minutes there during actual games in absolutely perplexing to me.

Anyway, it's way too late now he should have officially shut his return down about a month ago, the fact that this saga is continuing until now is absolutely disgusting in my opinion, and I'm not even bothered that he isn't going to return this season anymore, but he needs to actually be a leader and professional and shut himself down and allow the team to get their own dues without Derrick returning hovering around the team every day.

That is exactly how I feel.
He should have come back a month ago. It is too late now....so all of this stuff going on is nothing more than kabuki theatre. Rose needed to sack up, be a leader, and either play, or announce that he wasn't gonig to play, and let the chips fall where they may.

As others have mentioned, he does not want to be seen as a bad guy (quitter in this case), but at this point, there are large chunks of people who simply do not believe that he isn't healthy enough to play. Come this weekend, he will be one year post injury, and 11.5 months post surgery without any setbacks. It is hard to convice people you are unable to play at all when the young athletic guy that tore his ACL a few hours after you did has been back for over 3 months now.

At this point, the running out of the clock bothers me more than him not playing. I've accepted that he isn't coming back.

Man up and either set a date to play (game 4 or game 5), or man up and announce that you are shutting it down.

I agree with all this..I was saying a month ago that a date needed to be set. That way once it came and gone this whole saga could have been over. People would have moved on and just focused on the current Bulls that ARE playing.

Not mad at Rose but he could have ended this a long time ago. I've accepted he wouldn't be back til next year but there's some fans hoping he'll still make a return this year, and that's wrong.

[Rerisen]

but like i stated, rose only gets one chance at a return. if it doesn't happen right there'll be a lot longer threads than this one.

A lot of people already think its not happening right, hence the 1300 pages.

[bullsnewdynasty]

Let's assume for this hypothetical that this is all mental, or take your pick, about getting to 100%. How the **** does Ric Bucher know that Rose *won't* get to 100% or over the mental hurdle sometime during these playoffs?

What if this series goes another week and a half, and we beat the Nets in 7 games. We are then past even the 'worst' case 12 month timeline then. Yet apparently, Buches still knows he won't play this year.

Because This Is All Predetermined.

Not sure how many times they have to hit us over the head with it for belief to kick in?

If someone associated with the Bulls mentions that stupid 8-12 month window again, I am going to puke. That window stopped being relevant once Rose was cleared to play in games.

[kingkirk]

Let's assume for this hypothetical that this is all mental, or take your pick, about getting to 100%. How the **** does Ric Bucher know that Rose *won't* get to 100% or over the mental hurdle sometime during these playoffs?

What if this series goes another week and a half, and we beat the Nets in 7 games. We are then past even the 'worst' case 12 month timeline then. Yet apparently, Buches still knows he won't play this year.

Because This Is All Predetermined.

Not sure how many times they have to hit us over the head with it for belief to kick in?

If someone associated with the Bulls mentions that stupid 8-12 month window again, I am going to puke. That window stopped being relevant once Rose was cleared to play in games.

I just can't wait until it passes so it stops being used in this thread as an excuse.

[panthermark]

Reggie is sweating bullets. He needs for the Bulls to lose the next three and end the season.

I don't think he wants to see a game 6 in Chicago...especially if the Bulls are down 3-2.


And a game 7? On May 4th? That is one week shy of 12 months post surgery....and Rose still won't play? Ouch...

[kyrv]

Let's assume for this hypothetical that this is all mental, or take your pick, about getting to 100%. How the **** does Ric Bucher know that Rose *won't* get to 100% or over the mental hurdle sometime during these playoffs?

What if this series goes another week and a half, and we beat the Nets in 7 games. We are then past even the 'worst' case 12 month timeline then. Yet apparently, Buches still knows he won't play this year.

Because This Is All Predetermined.

Not sure how many times they have to hit us over the head with it for belief to kick in?

If someone associated with the Bulls mentions that stupid 8-12 month window again, I am going to puke. That window stopped being relevant once Rose was cleared to play in games.

Hate to be that guy, but, I'll be puking with you.

That window stopped being relevant once Rose was cleared to play in games.
That window stopped being relevant once Rose was cleared to play in games.
That window stopped being relevant once Rose was cleared to play in games.

[Gmoney3]

Of course, it's natural to be disappointed that Rose hasn't made it back from ACL surgery. His teammates are disappointed. Adidas is disappointed. His brothers — well, at least two of them — are disappointed.

Former Bulls center Will Perdue talked about Rose's prolonged comeback during an appearance Tuesday morning on WSCR Radio.

"I talked to Derrick throughout the season when I was in Chicago," Perdue said. "It started out with, 'It's going really good, rehab's going well,' to 'I'm back on the floor, but I'm a little concerned because after I go hard, I get up the next day and there's some pain and some swelling.'
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2013 ... /704239634

From Tuesday

Here we are gmoney , bumping, thanks to red and ryan and everyone linking articles in the last ten pages, great stuff, I can never find those, guess I'm google-challeneged (giggety).

(I quoted red just to note I added the embolden, I hate to quote and change things but the question was on the comment about the brothers. )

I read that a few pages back from the article linked. I was wondering where the DailyHerald got that information from. Has there been any other reports his other two brothers are angry?

They didn't elaborate on it either, so I was hoping it was coming from another source that the DailyHerald was quoting.

[kyrv]

I read that a few pages back from the article linked. I was wondering where the DailyHerald got that information from. Has there been any other reports his other two brothers are angry?

They didn't elaborate on it either, so I was hoping it was coming from another source that the DailyHerald was quoting.

Nope, I didn't see anything else but hopefully if someone does they will link it.

Certainly begs further questions.

[AAU Teammate]

That window stopped being relevant once Rose was cleared to play in games.

Well it stayed relevant --whether you or I want to accept it-- because the window and where Derrick falls in exactly ....is in part decided by the player's willingness to move through the various steps of rehab.

Hence JR stressing Derrick will not go into games until HE decides to.

Derrick was told: this tends to go 8 to 12 months... and you will not enter games until YOU are comfortable.

[babblin-on]

That window stopped being relevant once Rose was cleared to play in games.

Well it stayed relevant --whether you or I want to accept it-- because the window and where Derrick falls in exactly ....is in part decided by the player's willingness to move through the various steps of rehab.

Hence JR stressing Derrick will not go into games until HE decides to.

Derrick was told: this tends to go 8 to 12 months... and you will not enter games until YOU are comfortable.

Well, we don't know if Derrick was lied to in private, we only know the media/public were lied to.

[kyrv]

That window stopped being relevant once Rose was cleared to play in games.

Well it stayed relevant --whether you or I want to accept it-- because the window and where Derrick falls in exactly ....is in part decided by the player's willingness to move through the various steps of rehab.

Hence JR stressing Derrick will not go into games until HE decides to.

Derrick was told: this tends to go 8 to 12 months... and you will not enter games until YOU are comfortable.

1) I disagree that the 12 months is relevant now.

2) The 12 months was including games wasn't it?, so he's blown that out of the water anyway. I don't think it was 12 months to step on the court. It doesn't take 12 months for a professional athlete to return to the court and hasn't in over a decade.

The 12 month thing really is a red herring and FOR ME not relevant, because, again, it doesn't take 12 months to return to the court *unless something went wrong or it's during the off-season*.

And the 12 month thing became especially meaningless once he was cleared to play.

This particular issue has been explained already, so we'll probably need to agree to disagree, but my points 1 and 2 trump a year old ultra conservative estimate, one that was made before Rose was able to complete everything on time or ahead of time, to get cleared. That's when things stopped.

Think about it, the 12 month was the long end of the estimate and he was on time / ahead of schedule to be cleared, meaning he was on the track to being normal, then something went wrong to make him be, not normal.

[TheFix]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/ne ... &eref=sihp

Wonderful article that sums up the rational perspective perfectly.

[PMONSTER]

12 month thing really is a red herring and FOR ME not relevant, because, again, it doesn't take 12 months to return to the court *unless something went wrong or it's during the off-season*.

Think about it, the 12 month was the long end of the estimate and he was on time / ahead of schedule to be cleared, meaning he was on the track to being normal, then something went wrong to make him be, not normal.

1. What is this 8-12 month thing anyway? Is that when you're cleared to play in games or is that when you're cleared to practice without limitations?

2. Is the 8-12 month recovery time including play, like is that for certain? This needs to be cleared up because it's causing a lot of confusion. Some don't know when it becomes mental vs physical and if the mental can only be handled outside of games

3. Then they need to change the recovery estimates because 8-12 months seems too long for people. Kyrv, you said it doesn't take 12 months to recover unless something went wrong, then why the heck does the recovery say 8 to 12 months? If you're right then it makes no sense to put that as a recovery time length.

With that said, I believe Rose should be playing. I believe him when he says that he just not ready but I also believe that playing in games would be the best course of action for his rehab.

But because doctors say 8-12 months he's within his rights to do what he's doing. If he doesn't feel right within the 12 months after surgery then what can really be said?