Derrick Rose Thread #13 - Acceptance

[LCMJ]

Drose needs to go watch 8 Mile or something and just go out and play

[WestsideResider]

The last time the Bulls played a playoff game on a Saturday afternoon, D. Rose started. Keep hope alive.

But seriously, it's kinda absurd that he'd sit out and pretty much waste this whole season.

[BullChit]

The last time the Bulls played a playoff game on a Saturday afternoon, D. Rose started. Keep hope alive.

But seriously, it's kinda absurd that he'd sit out and pretty much waste this whole season.

I think the only thing that is absurd about it is sitting out an entire season without officially saying so and saying why...

[fleet]

Nothing official, but when they showed him receiving the MVP trophy on a "Chicago Basketball" mix video on the big board, I'm pretty certain I heard a few boos. Mostly cheers for sure, but it seemed like there were a few boos mixed in. Anyone else?

Yeah, same thing you heard. There were definitely some boos mixed in there.

Are you sure they werent saying Booooo-urns... Booo-urns...

Nah, the were going POOOOOOHHHH!

[Spike_bull]

Yesterday i was thinking.

KH and Nate are doing a good job, actually a really good job!
KH defense is just the best from a PG and Nate brings the shot creator from the bench.

DROSE in his prime is worth 2Nates and 2KH! There is no comparison.

But like i said, yesterday i was thinking if rose isnt comfortable and he is gonna play simple basket like passing and shooting, do we really need him that much? I mean, nate can shoot and KH can defend like no other.

[blumeany]

Yesterday i was thinking.

KH and Nate are doing a good job, actually a really good job!
KH defense is just the best from a PG and Nate brings the shot creator from the bench.

DROSE in his prime is worth 2Nates and 2KH! There is no comparison.

But like i said, yesterday i was thinking if rose isnt comfortable and he is gonna play simple basket like passing and shooting, do we really need him that much? I mean, nate can shoot and KH can defend like no other.

Bottom line is that Rose is, at worst, a decoy. He's someone they need to constantly account for on offense. If they have DWill covering him, he can run him ragged. If they put Johnson on him, even a 90% Rose can blow by him. Right now, the Nets can play us one-on-one, with little need to double. If Rose is on the court, they're going to want to double him. If you have Rose and Kirk on the court, you have two point guards who can move the ball around. (Not to mention Boozer and Noah who aren't too bad themselves.) You double Rose, and the Bulls can pass it around to the open guy. There's really no situation where having Rose on the court would be a bad thing.

[SteveDobbs]

Yesterday i was thinking.

KH and Nate are doing a good job, actually a really good job!
KH defense is just the best from a PG and Nate brings the shot creator from the bench.

DROSE in his prime is worth 2Nates and 2KH! There is no comparison.

But like i said, yesterday i was thinking if rose isnt comfortable and he is gonna play simple basket like passing and shooting, do we really need him that much? I mean, nate can shoot and KH can defend like no other.

Bottom line is that Rose is, at worst, a decoy. He's someone they need to constantly account for on offense. If they have DWill covering him, he can run him ragged. If they put Johnson on him, even a 90% Rose can blow by him. Right now, the Nets can play us one-on-one, with little need to double. If Rose is on the court, they're going to want to double him. If you have Rose and Kirk on the court, you have two point guards who can move the ball around. (Not to mention Boozer and Noah who aren't too bad themselves.) You double Rose, and the Bulls can pass it around to the open guy. There's really no situation where having Rose on the court would be a bad thing.

[BullsGate]

Yesterday i was thinking.

KH and Nate are doing a good job, actually a really good job!
KH defense is just the best from a PG and Nate brings the shot creator from the bench.

DROSE in his prime is worth 2Nates and 2KH! There is no comparison.

But like i said, yesterday i was thinking if rose isnt comfortable and he is gonna play simple basket like passing and shooting, do we really need him that much? I mean, nate can shoot and KH can defend like no other.

Thibs would want him to break down Nets defense & carry our offense when it's close game with bulls going through droughts.

[Spike_bull]

Yesterday i was thinking.

KH and Nate are doing a good job, actually a really good job!
KH defense is just the best from a PG and Nate brings the shot creator from the bench.

DROSE in his prime is worth 2Nates and 2KH! There is no comparison.

But like i said, yesterday i was thinking if rose isnt comfortable and he is gonna play simple basket like passing and shooting, do we really need him that much? I mean, nate can shoot and KH can defend like no other.

Bottom line is that Rose is, at worst, a decoy. He's someone they need to constantly account for on offense. If they have DWill covering him, he can run him ragged. If they put Johnson on him, even a 90% Rose can blow by him. Right now, the Nets can play us one-on-one, with little need to double. If Rose is on the court, they're going to want to double him. If you have Rose and Kirk on the court, you have two point guards who can move the ball around. (Not to mention Boozer and Noah who aren't too bad themselves.) You double Rose, and the Bulls can pass it around to the open guy. There's really no situation where having Rose on the court would be a bad thing.

I didnt mean it was a bad thing but does it make so much difference if he cant play like he used to because he isnt confident?

Note: I want him badly and his 3pt shooting alone makes it woth it. I´m just giving value to KH and nate not taking away from rose

[Spike_bull]

Yesterday i was thinking.

KH and Nate are doing a good job, actually a really good job!
KH defense is just the best from a PG and Nate brings the shot creator from the bench.

DROSE in his prime is worth 2Nates and 2KH! There is no comparison.

But like i said, yesterday i was thinking if rose isnt comfortable and he is gonna play simple basket like passing and shooting, do we really need him that much? I mean, nate can shoot and KH can defend like no other.

Bottom line is that Rose is, at worst, a decoy. He's someone they need to constantly account for on offense. If they have DWill covering him, he can run him ragged. If they put Johnson on him, even a 90% Rose can blow by him. Right now, the Nets can play us one-on-one, with little need to double. If Rose is on the court, they're going to want to double him. If you have Rose and Kirk on the court, you have two point guards who can move the ball around. (Not to mention Boozer and Noah who aren't too bad themselves.) You double Rose, and the Bulls can pass it around to the open guy. There's really no situation where having Rose on the court would be a bad thing.

and i was having a good morning

[coldfish]

Its generally been my experience that if you want to understand someone's motivation, follow the money. Its true for JR and its true for most businesses. Reggie even said it, so its on his mind.

Let's follow the money with Derrick Rose. Derrick has, almost 100% guaranteed, about $400M in contracts. After taxes and agent fees, that's still going to be $200M. Him and his family are set. Derrick himself probably isn't thinking too much about money.

Now, let's imagine you are a person living off a millionaire athlete. Maybe an agent or a manager/brother. You don't get the $400M, but you do get a small cut. Its also your only source of income. Let's say that Rose gets another max contract. That probably puts a few million dollars in the pockets of his agent and manager. For a guy who doesn't have a $400M deal, a few million bucks is a LOT of money. You are going to want to protect that.

Rose already has his endorsement deal. The people around him no longer care if he is popular. Their only concern, financially, would be his next contract. To that end, they would want to make sure Rose is 100% for the last year of his deal. Playing today, even if there is ZERO risk of injury greater than a normal player, has no financial benefit to his agent and manager. Financially, you would want Rose to sit for as long as you possibly can.

Pure speculation on my part, but something to think about.

[HINrichPolice]

Coldfish, kyrv, and others...

I've been exchanging messages with a couple of my friends who are in sports medicine (one of which is a year away from being board certified in sports medicine). To summarize their thoughts on this situation, they don't see anything wrong with what Rose is doing, and in fact, are totally fine with Derrick sitting out the year. They don't think that by Derrick sitting out, he is, in some people's view, delaying his own rehab.

I'd be more than happy to send along your thoughts. I'd do a write-up and send what I think you guys are thinking, but I don't want to misrepresent or forget anything. And to be honest, there are a million posts to sift through where I can just easily copy/paste something that encompasses all of your main points.

Out of context, here was one of the messages that were sent to me:

He needs to be 100%, although everybody thinks of ACL repair as no big deal since Adrian Peterson and Willlis Mcgahee make it seem like tearing your ACL actually makes you better, that is football and their bodies are built differently and their knees have different dynamic needs. NBA players have come back from ACL sx : baron davis, jamal crawford, Kendric perkins, however each individual is different and Rose's game is based on explosive speed. Whoever thinks that a player of that level is not dying to get back out on the court has never played real competitive sports before. There are many times where professinoal teams force their players to come back early and get hurt, they are no big names so you don't hear about it. Im glad Rose stood up for himself. and for whoever doesn't believe in the kinetic chain, look at Kobe and how he was playing with an ankle injury and tore his achillis for compensating/overuse.

[Former Roy]

The last time the Bulls played a playoff game on a Saturday afternoon, D. Rose started. Keep hope alive.

But seriously, it's kinda absurd that he'd sit out and pretty much waste this whole season.

waste WHAT season? the Bulls didn't spend because they didn't PLAN to CONTEND.

I don't understand how this isn't be resonated. WE ALREADY KNEW THIS.

Dude's not wasting anything, he's protecting his body & career.

Forget this season.

[HINrichPolice]

Its generally been my experience that if you want to understand someone's motivation, follow the money. Its true for JR and its true for most businesses. Reggie even said it, so its on his mind.

Let's follow the money with Derrick Rose. Derrick has, almost 100% guaranteed, about $400M in contracts. After taxes and agent fees, that's still going to be $200M. Him and his family are set. Derrick himself probably isn't thinking too much about money.

Now, let's imagine you are a person living off a millionaire athlete. Maybe an agent or a manager/brother. You don't get the $400M, but you do get a small cut. Its also your only source of income. Let's say that Rose gets another max contract. That probably puts a few million dollars in the pockets of his agent and manager. For a guy who doesn't have a $400M deal, a few million bucks is a LOT of money. You are going to want to protect that.

Rose already has his endorsement deal. The people around him no longer care if he is popular. Their only concern, financially, would be his next contract. To that end, they would want to make sure Rose is 100% for the last year of his deal. Playing today, even if there is ZERO risk of injury greater than a normal player, has no financial benefit to his agent and manager. Financially, you would want Rose to sit for as long as you possibly can.

Pure speculation on my part, but something to think about.

I don't think there's anyone that would disagree with this. In fact, I think people are underrating the pressure from Jerry Reinsdorf. It wouldn't surprise me if he's just as vigilant as Reggie or anyone else about pressuring Derrick to not play. It's one thing to criticize Derrick for listening to his brother/father figure, but it's another when it's the person that's signing your checks.

Having said that, Jordan didn't give an F. But I guess that's what makes Jordan, Jordan.

[Getembuck]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PiO1dKGCiY[/youtube]


got a good reaction from the crowd after the dunk looks good. but have accepted the fact he wont be back. The landing the was a good sign.

[Edvedder10]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PiO1dKGCiY[/youtube]


got a good reaction from the crowd after the dunk looks good. but have accepted the fact he wont be back. The landing the was a good sign.

I wish they'd shut him down and stop having him tease the fans with these pregame workouts.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Its generally been my experience that if you want to understand someone's motivation, follow the money. Its true for JR and its true for most businesses. Reggie even said it, so its on his mind.

Let's follow the money with Derrick Rose. Derrick has, almost 100% guaranteed, about $400M in contracts. After taxes and agent fees, that's still going to be $200M. Him and his family are set. Derrick himself probably isn't thinking too much about money.

Now, let's imagine you are a person living off a millionaire athlete. Maybe an agent or a manager/brother. You don't get the $400M, but you do get a small cut. Its also your only source of income. Let's say that Rose gets another max contract. That probably puts a few million dollars in the pockets of his agent and manager. For a guy who doesn't have a $400M deal, a few million bucks is a LOT of money. You are going to want to protect that.

Rose already has his endorsement deal. The people around him no longer care if he is popular. Their only concern, financially, would be his next contract. To that end, they would want to make sure Rose is 100% for the last year of his deal. Playing today, even if there is ZERO risk of injury greater than a normal player, has no financial benefit to his agent and manager. Financially, you would want Rose to sit for as long as you possibly can.

Pure speculation on my part, but something to think about.

I don't think there's anyone that would disagree with this. In fact, I think people are underrating the pressure from Jerry Reinsdorf. It wouldn't surprise me if he's just as vigilant as Reggie or anyone else about pressuring Derrick to not play. It's one thing to criticize Derrick for listening to his brother/father figure, but it's another when it's the person that's signing your checks.

Having said that, Jordan didn't give an F. But I guess that's what makes Jordan, Jordan.

Even if we assume the worst of BJ + Reggie, it doesn't make sense that they'd be trying to safeguard contracts that don't come up for another four years. What are they afraid of, a chain of serious injuries, stemming from the ACL, that last until 2016-17? If so you should just say they're just looking out for Derrick's health, however misguided their method may be. Because that's a Michael Redd scenario we're describing.

And HP, I'm not buying the "pressure" from Reinsdorf. To believe that you have to also believe that the medical clearance leak from the Bulls FO was outright insubordination, and we've seen no signs of that whatsoever. I think JR's on board with Derrick coming back when he's "ready", which is different from insisting that he sit out the year.

[coldfish]

Coldfish, kyrv, and others...

I've been exchanging messages with a couple of my friends who are in sports medicine (one of which is a year away from being board certified in sports medicine). To summarize their thoughts on this situation, they don't see anything wrong with what Rose is doing, and in fact, are totally fine with Derrick sitting out the year. They don't think that by Derrick sitting out, he is, in some people's view, delaying his own rehab.

I'd be more than happy to send along your thoughts. I'd do a write-up and send what I think you guys are thinking, but I don't want to misrepresent or forget anything. And to be honest, there are a million posts to sift through where I can just easily copy/paste something that encompasses all of your main points.

Out of context, here was one of the messages that were sent to me:

He needs to be 100%, although everybody thinks of ACL repair as no big deal since Adrian Peterson and Willlis Mcgahee make it seem like tearing your ACL actually makes you better, that is football and their bodies are built differently and their knees have different dynamic needs. NBA players have come back from ACL sx : baron davis, jamal crawford, Kendric perkins, however each individual is different and Rose's game is based on explosive speed. Whoever thinks that a player of that level is not dying to get back out on the court has never played real competitive sports before. There are many times where professinoal teams force their players to come back early and get hurt, they are no big names so you don't hear about it. Im glad Rose stood up for himself. and for whoever doesn't believe in the kinetic chain, look at Kobe and how he was playing with an ankle injury and tore his achillis for compensating/overuse.

All true, but let's go with this.

Any cursory review of the injury has it as a TWO YEAR injury. Rose is going to be feeling the effects of this next year. That is to say, he is going to feel twinges in his knee. He is going to mentally compensate and hold back on pushing his knee.

Based on your criteria, Rose will sit out all of next year too.

Now, in the real world, every athlete in the world other than Rose decides to power through that last bit. Adrian Petersen's knee was hurting him as he almost set the all time mark. Despite the pain, the compensation and the mental hurdle, they start playing when its to the point where they can without the elevated risk of his knee pulling out.

Rose is doing something that no other athlete does in today's world. That in and of itself is worth commenting on. Above and beyond that, the criteria that you and Rose seem to be using as required for return necessitates that Rose misses a good portion of next year too. That's also worth noting.

So, in my response: If Rose is still feeling some pain in his knee and feels the desire to compensate when playing basketball, do you advocate him sitting out part of or all of next year?

Beyond that, the vast majority of NBA players have nagging injury issues at any given time. Feet, ankles, knees, hips, backs, shoulders, etc. They are all feeling this pain and compensating for it. Hell, half the Bulls team is right now. Wade is. Joe Johnson is. Nash is. Do you advocate that they all should sit? All of them are wrong for playing right now?

[coldfish]

I don't think there's anyone that would disagree with this. In fact, I think people are underrating the pressure from Jerry Reinsdorf. It wouldn't surprise me if he's just as vigilant as Reggie or anyone else about pressuring Derrick to not play. It's one thing to criticize Derrick for listening to his brother/father figure, but it's another when it's the person that's signing your checks.

Having said that, Jordan didn't give an F. But I guess that's what makes Jordan, Jordan.

I generally just try to deal with the facts of this situation, so forgive me when I post this, because its purely my opinion.

I think that Derrick Rose is EXACTLY who we thought he is. IMO, he is a good kid who wants to play, likes his teammates and is bothered watching them. I think he is also loyal to his family above that. His family doesn't really have any loyalty to the Bulls or their fans. I do think they want what is best for Rose but also have a financial interest in it which has made them push Rose hard to not play.

Torn between family and team, I think Derrick chose family over team and I think its killing him that he is in this situation in the first place.

I do think he could play if he chose to. His knee would hurt and he wouldn't be 100%, but it would help the team and it would help his rehab.

[micromonkey]

Now at this point if they (Front office and Team Rose) think nothing is wrong in their actions and methodology (although many/myself included to some degree disagree) why would they shut him down?

They are still going through the motions and mentally it can't hurt Rose to go through pre-game motions or sit on bench. Playing would be better still IMO but I think being closer to the action is better if only in some small way.

Full disclosure--I'm on the "wrong path" but I think he's taking his lead from JR saying he should take more and not less time off and the old fraternity of players saying "they shoulda waited longer".

Any Reggie stuff may be him spouting off--saying something to empower his ego (We are going to hold him out) full well knowing Derrick was thinking of a longer route based on what the old frat says. So Reggie may have been "right" but the reasons are not what he's saying (ie if you signed OJ Mayo, etc he would be back in Feb) are not right.

Bucher and any jokers get this lead from Reggie and act like know it alls--maybe the yes/no of him coming back is correct but the reasons are bunk.

Bucher and insiders are a coin flip--he gets this one right so you will listen to the next 5 wrong ones. I really hold no credence on his inside knowledge on this or his next five speculations. Taking a contrarian view early was a good gamble and he won this time but as mentioned how many times are he and others totally wrong.

Duck and Kyrv may be right but at this point I will cling to this view until Woj hopefully clarifies this summer (and uses real info and not realgm rehash ).
I will agree that the extremely poor handling by Bulls and Team Rose on communication and expectations has damaged Derrick a bit. But I also think if he comes back with a 38%+ 3 ball and close to the rest of what he had that damage will be minimal by all-star break.