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ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My9

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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#401 » by therealbig3 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:55 pm

PetroNet wrote:we arent losing and underachiving because of coaching. our coaching sucks. bottomg 5 in the league. but the reason we underachieve is because our best players dont play hard and dont impost their will, no one plays defense 1 through 15 on this roster, and we play with no competitiveness. a great coach can hide some of that, but it wont change much. there isnt a coach in the league that would have us beating the bulls.

lopez/JJ just dont care about winning. thats a giant killer. and we cant get stops.


:rofl2:

You try so hard just to be argumentative and disagree with people. No wonder most people don't take anything you say seriously.

ANY coach that's even average at the job would have us up 3-0 right now, no doubt about it.
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#402 » by PetroNet » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:11 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
PetroNet wrote:we arent losing and underachiving because of coaching. our coaching sucks. bottomg 5 in the league. but the reason we underachieve is because our best players dont play hard and dont impost their will, no one plays defense 1 through 15 on this roster, and we play with no competitiveness. a great coach can hide some of that, but it wont change much. there isnt a coach in the league that would have us beating the bulls.

lopez/JJ just dont care about winning. thats a giant killer. and we cant get stops.


:rofl2:

You try so hard just to be argumentative and disagree with people. No wonder most people don't take anything you say seriously.

ANY coach that's even average at the job would have us up 3-0 right now, no doubt about it.


not a chance. these are coaches, not gods. a good coach isnt going to change lopez playing like a vagina or JJ not caring, or our team not being able to stop a nose bleed.

we dont defend and we dont play hard. and 2of our 3 best players dont try
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#403 » by therealbig3 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:17 pm

PetroNet wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:
PetroNet wrote:we arent losing and underachiving because of coaching. our coaching sucks. bottomg 5 in the league. but the reason we underachieve is because our best players dont play hard and dont impost their will, no one plays defense 1 through 15 on this roster, and we play with no competitiveness. a great coach can hide some of that, but it wont change much. there isnt a coach in the league that would have us beating the bulls.

lopez/JJ just dont care about winning. thats a giant killer. and we cant get stops.


:rofl2:

You try so hard just to be argumentative and disagree with people. No wonder most people don't take anything you say seriously.

ANY coach that's even average at the job would have us up 3-0 right now, no doubt about it.


not a chance. these are coaches, not gods. a good coach isnt going to change lopez playing like a vagina or JJ not caring, or our team not being able to stop a nose bleed.

we dont defend and we dont play hard. and 2of our 3 best players dont try


And despite all that, our two losses are by a combined 11 points, and their lead in the first loss was inflated at the end because we intentionally fouled them on a few possessions.

We barely lost, despite all the flaws you want to talk about, and PJ's coaching was trash in both of those games. Easily the most obvious and avoidable reason as to why we've lost the last 2 games.

I know it, you know it, but whatever, you just want to argue, as always.
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#404 » by MrDollarBills » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:20 pm

Paradise wrote:So now Wallace doesn't know what his role is...Dude needs to STFU right now but I will admit, him shooting corner threes is just stupid when he statistically is clearly better at Power Forward.

One day after a 79-76 Game 3 loss to the Chicago Bulls, Brooklyn Nets players were frustrated, and Gerald Wallace was mystified about his role on the team.

"I couldn't tell you my role," Wallace said Friday at the team hotel. "I don't have a clue of what my role is on this team."

After scoring 14 points in Game 1, Wallace has been a non-factor offensively over the past two games of the series. He had five points in 25 minutes and was benched during crunch time on Thursday.

"I just think that we're going through a tough time right now," Carlesimo said. " That's what the playoffs are all about. ]We're all frustrated. And we have to.

"I have to do a better job of constantly defining roles and redefining roles so we can perform the way we're capable of performing."


...THE PLAYOFFS ARE ABOUT GOING THROUGH ROUGH TIMES? WHAT A COMPLETE MORON


Gerald is 100% right because he's being misused, but that doesn't explain why this guy bricks point blank lay ups.

No one on this team knows what their goddamn role is, other than to getting paid to play basketball
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#405 » by jeff1624 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:34 pm

Is this moron seriously blaming Brook for the losses? The same guy that has averaged 21.3 a game in these playoffs so far on excellent efficiency? The same guy sporting a PER of 28.1? The same guy holding Joakim Noah to a TS% of .326 and a PER of 9.0 (same as Gerald Wallace)...

Is this dude serious?

I sincerely wish I could block this dude from ever appearing on my browser whenever I'm not logged in.
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#406 » by Paradise » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:08 pm

If we didn't play with heart or play hard at all we would have been blown out of the gym with this type of idiot coaching in all three games.

We won game 1 because our talent played great because the rotations were great and we pushed the tempo, Wallace got 14 points off layups and in that happening it helped his confidence to nail a three pointer in the game. Their defense was so scrambled at the fact Wallace as an offensive threat, Joe was a threat and Deron was so aggressive that Brook got nothing but dunks and layups. Didn't need a single jumpshot.

Game 2, the Bulls played at the highest they have ever played all season defensively and the largest lead for them was 12...We shaved that lead twice. Only reason why we didn't take the lead was because we missed wide open looks. Winnable game throughout despite how Deron shot 1-9, Joe 4-19 with the bad foot, etc.

Game 3, Bulls played sound defense, gained confidence and guess what? We STILL scared the daylights out of them in fact, Boozer and Hinrich got into an argument at the end after CJ airballed the three and Rose came in and got them to walk back to the locker room and celebreate the win. Fact is, If we didn't play with heart or hard...We wouldn't be in multiple positions to win.

Quite frankly, the media would be ripping any other team for losing the last two but everyone is still not writing us off goes to show It's not heart, playing hard, production...It's coaching. It's rotations. It's strategy.

After watching the 4th quarter again when Blatche/Lopez were in the game, Lopez guarded Boozer and SHUT HIM DOWN. When guarded by Brook in the entire 4th quarter, Boozer 0-2, 2 turnovers, 3 rebounds.

The best thing I took from the 4th quarter: Deron ran a pick and roll with Blatche on the high post, Blatche drove the ball towards the rim, the Bulls defense came to help and attempt a charge, Blatche willingly passed it to Brook cutting from the weak side and got a dunk. It literally looked like a competent offensive play...Because it was. The value of having two capable PFs with passing and elite point guard showed right there.

At the end of the day, we all knew it was never a question of heart, talent, leadership but COACHING. Thibs is out coaching the sh*t out of PJ.
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#407 » by H20FAN » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:29 pm

What radio station will the game be on
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#408 » by enetric » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:44 pm

Paradise wrote:
PetroNet wrote:i know its disappointing to lose but in honesty anyone thinking we could win this series was being a giant homer.

teams that dont pass the ball,, that dont play hard and who suck on defense dont win in the playoffs


Oh please, you and everyone else thought so soon as Game 1 was over.

I don't see any indication we don't play hard. Playing hard and smart are two different things.

Defense is hardly the issue when the Bulls shoot 41%. They only scored 2 points in the 4th quarter. 79 points is 3rd fewest in their franchise for a win.
Defense is surprsingly the last issue here.

You claimed the Hawks were so scary and that was far from true as well.

We've been outcoached. Nothing else.

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The fact that all you see is that we are out coached is laughable. Every post is PJ or Reggie Evans.

Get a clue man! The problem is the TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its a team of bad passers, bad defenders, a lot of ice cold shooting and we rely on one guy to rebound. D- _ill is no superstar. If this series hasnt proven that to people I dont know what will. Great scorer? Yes. Can he pass? Yes. Does he see the floor at an elite level? HAHAHA! Absolutely not. A team like the Bulls that packs into the middle the way they do but also has no self creator on offense...you have to do certain things to win.

1- You MUST push tempo once in a while and not let them get set. A handful of transition baskets would make a major difference. Sure we can put some of that on PJ but there is enough blame to go around for the supposed star play making PG there. We watched Kidd play in different offenses and different coaches over the years and yet he knew when to change the tempo. When to take advantage and push.

2- You have to challenge the paint anyway!!!! Even if they are packed in...you have Hinrich playing you to shoot as much as he does (watch and see how extreme to one side he sets up on D-_ill.) He can blow by him any time he wants. You cant be afraid to meet the bigs in the paint. Draw contact you big puss! Get to the line. Or find the open man from drawing the defenders to you. Perhaps try attacking the paint from different angles. STOP drving for the purpose of the kick out to 3 so often!!! Get into the paint...you should be able to find a back door cutter or pass over the top for the alley oop.

3- Because they cant self create...have to limit the second chance baskets. They are shooting at a high % either. So its more important to seal off than ever. You cant rebound? Fine. But you sure as hell can put a body on someone when the ball goes up.

These are just basic principals. And no coach is going to magically fix all that is wrong with our guys. Crash, Stackhouse, Bogans...these guys cant shoot. But...they can run the floor with you. THey can play up tempo for stretches. Use your personnel to the best of their skill sets.

The only player on this entire team I do not have an issue with this series is Brook Lopez. Sure...PJ deserves his share of blame..but for the love of god...please realize he is not the scapegoat of all. The players are the problem more than anything else.
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#409 » by enetric » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:47 pm

Paradise wrote:I'm 90% sure we will end up with Jeff Van Gundy. I'm not expecting anything major but at the end of the day, someone who will utilize the players properly and give them direction is all that's needed.

I'm not confident in anything either but I have hope we will get the coaching part resolved. I'm more worried about free agency and draft day.



If we get JVG the good news is you will have a new scapegoat because he is about as awful as they come.
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#410 » by enetric » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:50 pm

PetroNet wrote:we arent losing and underachiving because of coaching. our coaching sucks. bottomg 5 in the league. but the reason we underachieve is because our best players dont play hard and dont impost their will, no one plays defense 1 through 15 on this roster, and we play with no competitiveness. a great coach can hide some of that, but it wont change much. there isnt a coach in the league that would have us beating the bulls.

lopez/JJ just dont care about winning. thats a giant killer. and we cant get stops.



BOOM.


But...Lopez is the one guy who so far HAS looked like he upped his game. He is playing well IMO in this series. He looks more focused and more determined.

I cant stomach D-_ill these last two games. Made me sick. And then you can go down the line at the usual cast of losers.
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#411 » by enetric » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:51 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
PetroNet wrote:we arent losing and underachiving because of coaching. our coaching sucks. bottomg 5 in the league. but the reason we underachieve is because our best players dont play hard and dont impost their will, no one plays defense 1 through 15 on this roster, and we play with no competitiveness. a great coach can hide some of that, but it wont change much. there isnt a coach in the league that would have us beating the bulls.

lopez/JJ just dont care about winning. thats a giant killer. and we cant get stops.


:rofl2:

You try so hard just to be argumentative and disagree with people. No wonder most people don't take anything you say seriously.

ANY coach that's even average at the job would have us up 3-0 right now, no doubt about it.



He is argumentive but he isnt wrong this time. I am sorry but its denial to think this is all PJ.

We are shooting under .400 the last two games. We do not execute. We do not pass the ball well. Derron has been awful!!! I am surprised you said what you just said.

PJ may stink...but no freakin way is this all him.
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#412 » by enetric » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:59 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
:rofl2:

You try so hard just to be argumentative and disagree with people. No wonder most people don't take anything you say seriously.

ANY coach that's even average at the job would have us up 3-0 right now, no doubt about it.


PetroNet wrote:

not a chance. these are coaches, not gods. a good coach isnt going to change lopez playing like a vagina or JJ not caring, or our team not being able to stop a nose bleed.

we dont defend and we dont play hard. and 2of our 3 best players dont try


therealbig3 wrote:
And despite all that, our two losses are by a combined 11 points, and their lead in the first loss was inflated at the end because we intentionally fouled them on a few possessions.

We barely lost, despite all the flaws you want to talk about, and PJ's coaching was trash in both of those games. Easily the most obvious and avoidable reason as to why we've lost the last 2 games.

I know it, you know it, but whatever, you just want to argue, as always.


Final score is not a reasonable way to tell the whole story. We spent a large chunk of these games down by 3 possessions. That's all you need to know. In this last game we were cruising right until the moment Lopez sat for the first time. The train came off the tracks immediately after that.

You are trying to hard to apply some sort of simplistic logic that says...final score=X...better coaching is worth at least that much. That's not seeing what is wrong with this team in a fair light.

What? Bulls couldnt possibly adjust to a different sub pattern, time outs and play calling? If you play poor D, refuse to push tempo from the point...are afraid to attach the paint...do not rebound from more than one guy...you are going to have issues against a team that is more system than star creator.

I dont care how many wins we had during the regular season this is perhaps the worst playoff Nets team I have seen in 25 years. This is not a group of winners.
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#413 » by PetroNet » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:56 pm

enetric wrote:
PetroNet wrote:we arent losing and underachiving because of coaching. our coaching sucks. bottomg 5 in the league. but the reason we underachieve is because our best players dont play hard and dont impost their will, no one plays defense 1 through 15 on this roster, and we play with no competitiveness. a great coach can hide some of that, but it wont change much. there isnt a coach in the league that would have us beating the bulls.

lopez/JJ just dont care about winning. thats a giant killer. and we cant get stops.



BOOM.


But...Lopez is the one guy who so far HAS looked like he upped his game. He is playing well IMO in this series. He looks more focused and more determined.

I cant stomach D-_ill these last two games. Made me sick. And then you can go down the line at the usual cast of losers.


slice it up and place the blame wherever. bottom line is we arent winnign a game if dwill and lopez dont play like stars and set/maintain the tempo of the game. they need to impose their will, regardless of how they are played. they just arent doing that right now.

people can blame PJ, but there really arent rotations that are going to work if our stars arent playing like stars. especially since we dont have a supersub who can come in and make up for that. our rotations can be better, but not enough to really sway things or make up for bad defense and awful passing/lack of passing

people like to throw out all these buzzwords like spacing or say how we need lopez on boozer cause it bothers him(while ignoring boozer scored 6 of his 22 in the last 6 minutes with lopez on him while missing just 1 shot).

we need to rebound. we need to defend. we need dwill/lopez to play their best
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#414 » by NyCeEvO » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:04 pm

I don't think it's entirely coaching and I don't think it's entirely on the players.

I think it's the combination of both that are causing problems.

The first quarter of Game 3 was a microcosm of the problems that we've experienced all year. EVERYONE needs to go back and watch that 1st quarter again.

In the first 5min 35sec of the game, we ran early offense. We got up by double-digits really quickly because we were pushing the ball and swinging it around before the Bulls could set up their defense. It seemed like it was going to be a blowout.

However, the problem is that we aren't built to run. As much as we like Lopez, if he's our first option on offense, we can run for a little bit, but eventually the tempo is going to have to slow down.

After the 5:35 mark, we (obviously) couldn't run anymore. Lopez picked up his 2nd foul quickly after and if you look at our players, everything took way too long to develop and the Bulls capitalized on it.

At that point, Deng started leaving Wallace extremely wide open so that he could help protect the paint and prevent penetration. The Bulls had at least 2-3 guys near the paint at all times at that point.

So let's just say for argument's sake that we're unable to make changes to our schemes until the end of the 1st quarter.

When that first quarter break comes, there are two main things we should realize.

1) Having an early offense established a big lead quickly
2) If we're unable to run early offense, you have to change the personnel so that the Bulls have to guard everyone.

Idk who to credit for point #1 but we at least know that neither PJ nor the players disapproved at pushing the tempo. So for that, I'd credit both.

Now for point 2, it's kinda hard to recognize problems the second that they occur so I can understand if it took til the end of the quarter for PJ to see what the problems are. But by the end of the quarter, the players and the coaches should recognize the fact that they were blowing the Bulls out when they played a fast tempo and they got dominated when the game slowed down.

I think PJ should ask D-Will how many minutes he can go with an uptempo style and then D-Will should run those minutes, but when everyone gets tired OR when Lopez needs to be the focal point of the offense, it's basically imperative that we throw Blatche or even Mirza out there so that the Bulls can't just sag in near the paint like they do with Reggie and Wallace.

Now, this speaks to two issues.

1) Our starting personnel is going to struggle in the halfcourt against teams who recognize that they can leave Wallace and Reggie in the halfcourt and it won't mean much.

Even if you replace Reggie with Hump, the same problem is going to occur maybe to a slightly lesser degree. If you start Blatche, what happens when Blatche and Lopez get tired? Are you going to make Hump and Reggie our PF and C combination? No.

We have a bad personnel problem and it's going to be apparent against playoff teams. Our talent alone can overcome this problem against the bad teams but it's going to be exposed against the better teams who have the personnel to matchup with us.

2) Because we have a personnel problem PJ has to recognize this.

He needs to see how he can stagger the uptempo offense and sub out Reggie and/or Wallace if we want to run a halfcourt offense.

However, it is quite clear that he doesn't see that and that is hurting us.


I disagree with the notion that we just need to play harder and with more passion. That's not the problem.

In almost all of Game 1 and in the scoring runs in Games 2 and 3, there wasn't a change in demeanor during the times where we scored and the times where we didn't.

The change was that when we play slow, the Bulls setup around the paint, our wings can't penetrate and we're relegated to shooting a lot of long jumpers.

I do think that if we had another coach, they'd probably recognize this problem and make the necessary adjustments to help us beat the Bulls, but at the same time we do have a personnel problem that needs to be addressed.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

But the greater problem is the fact that the Bulls are missing their best player and Noah is struggling with PF and yet we're struggling mightily against this team. Even if you replace the coach, what are you going to do with inherent personnel problem that we have especially when we face a healthy Bulls team, the Knicks, the Pacers, or especially the Heat?

If we keep our starting lineup the same next year, we'll have the same fundamental problem.

D-Will and Wallace thrive when we're playing uptempo, but Lopez does better when we slow it down. If we play uptempo, we won't have run into the issues that the Bulls are giving to us, but at the same time, it could limit Lopez' impact especially if he tires too quickly.


Now while I've grown on Lopez, I have said that I would trade him Love if the situation came up.

I've heard some responses citing Lopez's numbers and talking about 'if he's playing this well under a bad coaching system just imagine how good he'll play under a good one'.

The problem with that type of logic is that basketball does not work in geometrical/proportional components like that.

You can't look at Lopez numbers and say well with a coach of level 1, he's playing this well, therefore with a coach of level 3, proportionality should prove that if we get a coach of level 3, Lopez well be improve by threefold.

Basketball doesn't work that way.

Lopez is playing as about efficient as he can get. The things that would make him have a better impact are not going to come from coaching. They're going to come with him either improving his conditioning, becoming a better shooter, etc.

We already play in a halfcourt system and that's what allows Lopez to excel. If we get another coach that wants Lopez to be the main feature, it's going to be a halfcourt based system.

So while it's awesome that he's putting good numbers right now that does not mean that he's the least part of the problem.

Our current team is most effective when we're mainly playing uptempo. If we run some sets here and there for Lopez, the team will still be good but he won't be our main feature.

But if you want Lopez numbers to be good, you'll play a halfcourt system where he can thrive. But then you realize that Wallace is ineffective in a halfcourt system, Reggie's offensive weaknesses are exposed in a halfcourt set, and teams like the Bulls can just sit back and load up the paint to prevent D-Will from getting in there.

The question is "Is the goal to have Lopez get his numbers OR is the goal for the team to be most effective?"

If we're looking to keep Wallace and Reggie will continue to play 15-20min a game, then you'd need to consider what is best for the team and look at someone like Love who can play a more uptempo game and still be effective.

If you want to keep Lopez, you'll need to get a PF who can score to prevent teams from loading up on us and you'll have to do something with Wallace because he'll still be largely ineffective in this scenario.

Different people will have different opinions about which option is better.
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#415 » by enetric » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:06 pm

And you cant shoot 32% for the last two combined playoff games. Cant put that all on the damn coach.
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Re: ROUND 1 GAME 3: NETS @ BULLS |Thursday| 8:30pm| NBATV/My 

Post#416 » by NyCeEvO » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:42 pm

enetric wrote:And you cant shoot 32% for the last two combined playoff games. Cant put that all on the damn coach.

Yeah, that too. :lol:

But as I said before, we're not one of the better shooting teams in the league, especially from the 3pt line.

If the Bulls are going to load up the paint so that we can't score in the paint and we're forced to make jumpshots, we're probably going to lose.

We don't have the personnel to win games by shooting 3s.

And with the way that current defenses are constructed, (the most effective teams are the ones that can exploit attacking the paint but have 3pt shooters to pass to if the paint happens to be clogged) we need to adapt to that model and get guys like Korver and players who are able to score effectively in the paint.

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