Are you an optimist or a realist?

[steger_3434]

I got to thinking about this after I see that that some hardcore optimist are toeing the realist line now. Has this year and how the Bucks have been run finally changed some peoples opinions of this team? Realist is knowing this team and everything about it sucks. Optimist is looking at what we have and thinking we just had bad luck or a team that just needs to grow.

[drew881]

Realist as far as team construction and future.

Optimist as a fan. I don't really get how and why people come on here just to continually trash and make fun of the team. It is a weird kind of fandom that I'm guessing isn't put up with by friends/family in your normal social lives and some of you need an outlet for it. But that is the same cynical behavior I've come to expect from Bucks fans (both casual and hardcore) and Wisconsin sports fans in general.

The only type of negative fandom I fully support are the public calls for change, such as bag night, the billboard idea. Visibility is great, whether it is in an article or other persuasive measures. But the type of masochist fan behavior and vitriol (both deserved and undeserved) towards players is overboard, and I sometimes I agree with the users who say that other cities would appreciate our poorly run basketball team more than us.

[paul]

There was previously at least some cause for optimism with this team, the FO then systematically removed literally every single part of that reason with the people they moved out and the people they brought in, on and off the court.

Optimism with this team in the past 15 months isn't optimism, it's blind faith.

[WEFFPIM]

Rephrase: Are you a realist or an idiot?

[Faede]

I actually think that there is a third option here and that "realist" is very much a flawed generalization for what you have defined it as.

Optimist. The direction of the team is great.

Pessimist. As you said "everything about this team sucks".

And Realist... which to me means something like this: In the landscape of the NBA as it currently sits, Milwaukee will never seriously compete for a championship or, at the very least, it would have to get unbelievably lucky to do so. The NBA is a superstar league. Moreso, it's a multiple superstar league. There are three ways to get multiple superstars. Draft, Trade and Free Agency. One of those options, free agency is pretty much completely lost to Milwaukee. I think we could end up with a competitive team if we worked hard, but, a championship caliber team would be an extremely difficult prospect unless the landscape of the NBA rules changed fairly dramatically.

Am I happy with the direction of the team? Heck no.

But I will support the team and the players quite a bit more than those I consider the "pessimists". I'll continue to hold out hope that we end up with, say, a team like Indianapolis has some day. Will it win a championship? Highly unlikely. But it is, at least, competitive and for a small market midwest destination.. that's about as good as your going to get in the day and age of multiple superstars gathering on these mega teams.

[InsideOut]

Charter member of the realists here. I may have even coined the phrase after getting sick of being called a pessimist by the optimists. Funny thing is it turns out I was an optimist this year as I predicted the Bucks would finish with 41 wins.

[MikeIsGood]

Optimism with this team in the past 15 months isn't optimism, it's blind faith.

Basically this.

And 'realist,' of course. As if I really even needed to clarify or state that.

[ampd]

There was previously at least some cause for optimism with this team, the FO then systematically removed literally every single part of that reason with the people they moved out and the people they brought in, on and off the court.

Optimism with this team in the past 15 months isn't optimism, it's blind faith.

This.

However, the team is well positioned to remake itself in a positive way over the next season or two. We just don't have the FO, Staff, GM, etc to do it.

[VooDoo7]

Any optimism I had left (which wasn't much) vanished when we traded Tobias/kept Monta and Brandon.

My hope was we get a new coach next year who'll actually play Tobes.

F this franshise. F 'em up the arse!!

[blazza18]

There was previously at least some cause for optimism with this team, the FO then systematically removed literally every single part of that reason with the people they moved out and the people they brought in, on and off the court.

Optimism with this team in the past 15 months isn't optimism, it's blind faith.

This.

However, the team is well positioned to remake itself in a positive way over the next season or two. We just don't have the FO, Staff, GM, etc to do it.

+1 to both.

[Wooderson]

I actually think that there is a third option here and that "realist" is very much a flawed generalization for what you have defined it as.

Optimist. The direction of the team is great.

Pessimist. As you said "everything about this team sucks".

And Realist... which to me means something like this: In the landscape of the NBA as it currently sits, Milwaukee will never seriously compete for a championship or, at the very least, it would have to get unbelievably lucky to do so. The NBA is a superstar league.

The line "never seriously compete for a championship" is such a cop out. At the very least there is a huge middle ground lost in that statement - something between constantly being the 8/9/10 seed in a weak conference and being OKC/Miami. Indiana probably won't ever win a title as currently constructed, but they're still a threat to win a few playoff series, and will likely be a 50 win team the next 4 or 5 years. And if they land one more big piece, could be a threat to win it a few years down the road.

The tone of this board is so negative because we don't even attempt to reach Indiana's level. As in we'd rather trade for JJ Redick to be a more competitive 8th seed playoff team for one year than let our young guys develop and hopefully become a consistent winner.

Teams like Houston/GSW/Denver, who in the past were on a similar path to the Bucks, have started to turn things around - just as the Bucks could have done last year, or the year before that, or the year before that. They took advantage of assets and in GSWs case, sacrificed a bit in the short term to develop a successful team with a bright future. The Bucks continue to walk in the opposite direction.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

both. short term i try to stay optimistic about the team. but long term.... im much more realistic about our place in todays league. its hard to be an optimist about our actual long term prospects... better just to block that part of it. those that can are the true realists around here.

[InsideOut]

both. short term i try to stay optimistic about the team. but long term.... im much more realistic about our place in todays league. its hard to be an optimist about our actual long term prospects... better just to block that part of it. those that can are the true realists around here.

So in your mind you are a realist because you block out the actual long term prospects of the team and try to stay optimistic of the short term when all the evidence is to the contrary?

How exactly is that being a realist? That sounds to me like the exact opposite of a realist?

[paulpressey25]

The line "never seriously compete for a championship" is such a cop out.

Kohl and his cronies have been using that line for decades now in an effort to justify their terrible on court results.

A few media people and fans still cling to this excuse, but I think the events of the last 45-days may have finally brought enough people around to realize this is crap.

I have no pretensions of the Bucks ever winning a championship or even necessarily drafting the next "LeBron". But if we are going to toss those two dreams in the trash on day one of each season, can't we at least have the success the Pacers or Utah have had the past 20-years?

[ampd]

I voted realist, but the definitions in the first post don't really fairly represent the opinions of actual optimists on this forum, or even a clear dichotomy.

A funny side note: one of the often given antonyms for a 'realist' or 'pragmatist' is 'idealist'. Which in the context of this thread is amusing because most of the self described realists on this forum are actually idealists, if disillusioned ones.

[Max Green]

I'm Optimistic that we can have a successful winning team in Milwaukee with Herb Kohl as the owner if we bring in the right GM & Coach.

[HaroldinGMinor]

"realist" is what pessimists call themselves to feel smart.


And the terms you've given are too narrow. I'm optimistic the Bucks can succeed in Milwaukee. I'm not optimistic they can do so with Herb Kohl as owner.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

both. short term i try to stay optimistic about the team. but long term.... im much more realistic about our place in todays league. its hard to be an optimist about our actual long term prospects... better just to block that part of it. those that can are the true realists around here.

So in your mind you are a realist because you block out the actual long term prospects of the team and try to stay optimistic of the short term when all the evidence is to the contrary?

How exactly is that being a realist? That sounds to me like the exact opposite of a realist?

realist man. look at the league and how its constructed. look at our market. look at our owner. look at how players view us. look at how this okc model bullsht is working out for all the teams in the league not from okc.

bottom line is we need a new coach, new owner, probably even a new market before our practical ceiling is any higher than indiana. so yeah... im a realist. only an optimist of epic proportion would look at our situation and think theres some simple way out of this deal we got here.

[Nebula1]

Optimistic about our bigs. That's it. Realistic that Kohl is the owner and Bucks facilities are weak.

[paul]

both. short term i try to stay optimistic about the team. but long term.... im much more realistic about our place in todays league. its hard to be an optimist about our actual long term prospects... better just to block that part of it. those that can are the true realists around here.

So in your mind you are a realist because you block out the actual long term prospects of the team and try to stay optimistic of the short term when all the evidence is to the contrary?

How exactly is that being a realist? That sounds to me like the exact opposite of a realist?

realist man. look at the league and how its constructed. look at our market. look at our owner. look at how players view us. look at how this okc model bullsht is working out for all the teams in the league not from okc.

bottom line is we need a new coach, new owner, probably even a new market before our practical ceiling is any higher than indiana. so yeah... im a realist. only an optimist of epic proportion would look at our situation and think theres some simple way out of this deal we got here.

Indiana are a sneeky chance for a conference final this season. Everyone on the board would take that.