Where does all this Kobe / Lakers hate stem from?

[Kobe 62 Mavs 61]

Uhhh, yes there are dude. Much of it is opinion but if there are no facts at all, then Sasha THE MACHINE is the best NBA player ever.

Talking about hall of famers...people that have won multiple rings etc. It really boils down to preference and who you like more.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

errr...no it doesn't. I like Havlicek over Duncan and it's just preference?

Look, the reality is no one likes irrational superfans. Kobe has a lot of those, probably more than any North American sports figure. Ipso facto...

I mean, he's my favorite player, obviously, but when I say that to people, I immediately have to be like "Yeah, don't worry, though..." and explain how I don't think he's automatically the best player of his generation or a top 5 player or any of that. Sad I even need to caveat myself, but..there ya go.

[Sundov]

- He plays in LA/Hollywood
- MJ comparisons....
- Running shaq out of town when they had a decent chance at that stage of winning a few more together. He could have then even won some without shaq after shaq got old.
- Demanding a trade after having a bad supporting cast for a couple of years especially since he was the one who pushed for Shaq leaving in the first place
- Rape accusations
- His arrogant demeanor
- A lot of people think a lot of Laker fans are obnoxious. Wanting their hero to go down makes them happy
- Ball hog
- Jealous because he's won 5 rings
- Jealous because he's barely had any serious injuries like their favourite players (until now)
- Jealous that he he has had an amazing supporting cast for most of his career.

[GeneralNash]

Uhhh, yes there are dude. Much of it is opinion but if there are no facts at all, then Sasha THE MACHINE is the best NBA player ever.

Talking about hall of famers...people that have won multiple rings etc. It really boils down to preference and who you like more.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

errr...no it doesn't. I like Havlicek over Duncan and it's just preference?

Look, the reality is no one likes irrational superfans. Kobe has a lot of those, probably more than any North American sports figure. Ipso facto...

I mean, he's my favorite player, obviously, but when I say that to people, I immediately have to be like "Yeah, don't worry, though..." and explain how I don't think he's automatically the best player of his generation or a top 5 player or any of that. Sad I even need to caveat myself, but..there ya go.

Wait a second...you don't think Kobe is the best player of his generation? TSorry but maybe you have an agenda and are just posing as a Kobe fan and really are a fan of someone else....

[Imadogg]

He's not automatically the best of this generation since Tim Duncan exists

[henryJSB]

I always thought it was pretty obvious this **** stems from jealousy.

In fact what we are seeing at the moment is a shift in sympathies. I now see less people hating on Kobe and the Lakers and more hate for LBJ and the Heat. It's a slow gradual thing but it's happening for sure.

[Michael Lucky]

It's called success. Why does everyone hate the Yankees? same thing

[dockingsched]

its not just success. people don't hate the spurs and they've been right there along side the lakers for the past 10-15 yrs. its success and the big market. frankly i feel people hate big market teams more so and are jealous because of the resources that provides.

[Sedale Threatt]

That, plus a lot of Bryant's die-hard fans bring it on themselves with their lack of objectivity. Ranking players is by nature a subjective exercise, but you can at least TRY to take a larger world view of the league as a whole, or be knowledgeable of NBA history. Those are qualities that are often sorely lacking in the various debates I've seen and participated over the years.

Of course, it's not limited to Bryant fans. But I would have to say he's got arguably the most rabid fan base of any star player. That, magnified by the sheer number, can leave a bad taste.

On a broader spectrum, even as a Laker fan who has benefited immensely from his contributions, I don't find his personality or his playing style all that likable. That sucks, because it's detracted some level of enjoyment from the career of a player who the Lakers will be hard-pressed to match or replace in my lifetime.

A. He doesn't have an ounce of charisma. Swagger -- most definitely. But charisma, like a Magic Johnson or a Michael Jordan or even a Johnny Manziel? Not a bit. It's the reason so many of his mannerisms and qualities seem contrived, when in fact they almost certainly aren't.

B. I just do not like a shoot-first, volume scorer whose answer to virtually any situation is to put up more shots. I didn't particularly enjoy watching Jordan, although I am hugely appreciative of the opportunity and have immense respect for his achievements. And I haven't always enjoyed watching the watered-down version that is Kobe Bryant.

I hate that, but I appreciate a different kind of game. Pau Gasol, for example, isn't half the player Kobe is, but I appreciate his approach more -- not necessarily the cream puffery, but the skill level, the team-first mentality, the all-around excellence. Even more so with Magic Johnson, who is my ideal of basketball perfection. I'd take 20 assists and complete team mastery over 40 or 50 points any day of the week.

I wonder if that has somebody to do with age; you invariably have more emotional investment with players when you're younger. But I genuinely enjoy that style of basketball more.

[Sundov]

A. He doesn't have an ounce of charisma. Swagger -- most definitely. But charisma, like a Magic Johnson or a Michael Jordan or even a Johnny Manziel? Not a bit. It's the reason so many of his mannerisms and qualities seem contrived, when in fact they almost certainly aren't.

.

Great point.

[DelMonte West]

Game 6, WCF, 2002. It essentially solidified a mindset that the Lakers were the beneficiaries of some dubious calls and preferential treatment. At the time it seemed like the league was trying to market them as the reincarnation of the 90s Bulls, which wasn't helped by the numerous Kobe/MJ comparisons. The fact that this game was later used in the Donaghy fallout didn't help matters any.

I can't speak for others, but as a Boston fan, I respect you guys and Kobe. However, some of the statements (coming from people like Magic, no less) about how he's the greatest Laker of all time are unbelievable. Great player, top 20 (maybe 15), sure. But I'd say West, Magic, Kareem, and Shaq all have him beat in terms of legacy (I don't count Wilt as I wasn't around then, and his best days weren't with the Lakers anyway). There's no shame in that.

[GeneralNash]

He's not automatically the best of this generation since Tim Duncan exists

Wait....No. Duncan is a beast...but kobe is on another level. Lets get real.

sent by pony express

[Sedale Threatt]

Why is Kobe on another level? Duncan is one of the most impactful two-way players and best teammates in NBA history. Outside of volume scoring -- something Duncan was never interested in -- I'm not seeing any significant advantages for Bryant.

[TyCobb]

Duncan is cool because he has been so consistent for so damn long, but Kobe at his peak was head and shoulders more dominate than anybody else in the league.

[Sedale Threatt]

I disagree with that. You'd be hard-pressed to dominate more than Duncan did in the 2003 POs -- 25 ppg, 15 rpg, 5 apg, 3 bpg, 28 PER, huge off/def split. Kobe's obviously had some outstanding runs, but that's one of the very best in NBA history. It comes down to how much you value volume scoring, and there's a tendency to overrate this.

[TyCobb]

Agreed to disagree then. Kobe's biggest weakness is his shot selection. Only today are players more aware and focused on their percentages because of advanced stats and how it's perceived by the media and fans.

[Imadogg]

I agree on Kobe's peak vs Duncan's consistency, and that's why I'm saying there's an argument. If you say Duncan isn't on Kobe's level.. well statements like that from fans is where the hate on Kobe stems from. If Duncan's peak isn't close to Kobe's (for argument's sake), then Kobe's consistency isn't close to Duncan's, Kobe's attitude isn't close, his shot selection isn't close, etc etc.

[bostonfan34]

Here's a hint: all the "You can't get Nash and Dwight Howard in the same offseason..." "Yes we can!!" signatures don't help...but they reflect the attitudes of Laker fans, or at least the perceived attitudes that people around the country have of them.

PS - the whole Nash/Dwight thing didn't really work out...so people are happy.

[leolozon]

Wait....No. Duncan is a beast...but kobe is on another level. Lets get real.

sent by pony express

Wow! On another level?

Biased opinion based on no statistical datas.

Duncan PER : 24,7 in his career.
Kobe's PER : 23,4 in his career

Duncan's WS : 0,213/48
Kobe's WS : 0,183/48

Duncan's OR 110, DR 95 : difference +15
Kobe's OR 112, DR 105 : difference +7

Duncan is a better all-around player if you look at PER and that's before counting defense, something that Duncan is far more impactful at. As a 2-way player, you are right that one of those guys is better than the other, just not the one you choose to believe.

Kobe has scoring going for him, but Duncan is still a more efficient scorer throughout is career : 1.31 pts per shot, compared to 1.30 for Kobe.

So please, explain to me how Duncan isn't on the same level than Kobe. I'm interested in hearing it.

Duncan is cool because he has been so consistent for so damn long, but Kobe at his peak was head and shoulders more dominate than anybody else in the league.

Kobe's peak head and shoulder above everybody else?

First you should define peak, how many years?

From 2001 to 2005, Duncan averaged around 27 in PER, by going around 22 pts, 12 rbds, 3.2 asts, 2.6 blocks per 36 minutes.

I'll take 4 years for Kobe too.

From 2005 to 2009, Kobe averaged around 25.5 in PER, by going around 28 pts, 4.7 asts and 5.2 rbds per 36 minutes.

Kobe had the best statiscal season in 2005-2006 though. So if by peak you mean 1 season, then I guess Kobe had the better peak. But once you factor in defense, it should be pretty close. Kobe was a very good defender back then, but Duncan was a bit better.

Going by PER, here are players with a better season than kobe ever had (while he was in the league, Kobe 2005-2006 season rank 56 all-time).

Lebron James : 2005-2006, 2007-2008, 2008-2009, 2009-2010, 2011-2012, 2012-2013
Shaquille O'neal : 1997-1998, 1998-1999, 1999-2000, 2000-2001, 2001-2002, 2002-2003
Dwyane Wade : 2006-2007, 2008-2009, 2009-2010
Tracy McGrady : 2002-2003
Chris paul : 2007-2008, 2008-2009
Kevin Garnett : 2003-2004, 2004-2005
Kevin Durant : 2012-2013
Nowitzki : 2005-2006

PER doesn't tell the whole story? Aright, find me anything that shows that Kobe at his peak was HEAD AND SHOULDER above everyone else.

[dho4ever]

He's not automatically the best of this generation since Tim Duncan exists

Wait....No. Duncan is a beast...but kobe is on another level. Lets get real.

sent by pony express

People don't hate the Lakers or Kobe. They hate fans like you.

[TyCobb]

Gotta love stats.