Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuable?

[RayBan-Sematra]

Comparing their stats, there's really no argument in favor of Shaq.

Actually there is.

What elite centers were there in the 00s during Shaq's prime?

Hmm... Prime Duncan, Robinson (still very good in 00 & 01), DPOY Mutombo, Sabonis/Sheed combo, Vlade/Webber combo.

LeBron was in a league with wing superstars like prime Wade, prime Kobe

He never faced either of them in the playoffs.

Shaq's league was weak.

The early 00's West was very strong.
Far stronger then the current East.

It doesn't matter if his conference was tougher.

Sure it does.
It is much easier to put up bigger stats, get to the Finals and even win the Championship if you're playing in a very weak conference.

Shaq never played with a supporting cast as bad as LeBron's 2009 Cavs.

Even if that was true it doesn't change the fact that Shaq won multiple Rings with supporting casts much weaker then what Lebron had last year and this year and he did it against much better competition.

LeBron last season 30/10/6 on 30.3 PER and .580 TS% with an injured Wade/Bosh is better than anything Shaq has ever done.

Shaq's 00 & 01 runs were far more impressive in my eyes.

LeBron's 2009 playoffs destroys Shaq's best playoff run.

He didn't even make the Finals and that EC was pitifully weak.
If you consider that the GOAT run its cool and I am sure you might find a few other LBJ fans who would agree but the majority of people feel differently.

He was never that efficient and never put up those raw stats.

Maybe not but Shaq's playoff stats over his first 8-10 years in the playoffs are clearly well above Lebron's and that is far more impressive then a single run to the conference finals.

Not to mention he had it easy having a 4th quarter closer like Kobe finishing several games for him

Who is Wade?
Also Shaq led the 00-02 Lakers in 4th quarter scoring.

[PetroNet]

It is Shaq. people saying other wise are really living on a stat page or didnt see peak shaq. Lebron dominates the stat page more then he dominates the game(not that he doesnt dominate the game, he does - but not to the extent the stats indicate).

Shaq dominated games. on both sides of the floor, he dictated what happened. he didint have 10 assists a game, but the impact defenses collapsing on him had opened up things for his teammates well beyond what 10 assists would have.

he dominated the glass on both ends. extra possessions and saved possessions. again causes opponents to collapse and sacrafice their fast breaks due to this.

His scoring was off the charts. he could score on anyone, even with hard double teams, because of his enormous size advantage. the nets doubled him constantly on the catch in the finals, and he beat it constantly. You couldnt force the ball out of his hands like say the mavs did to lebron.

The one thing you cant really go by the numbers on or have a stat for is how someone imposes their will on the tempo and flow of a game. Best example was Barkley in 93-94. The stats dont show him having a GOAT type year, but there are only 3 or 4 guys ive ever seen dominate a season the way he did. that year, once the ball when up, he dicatated how those games where being played. he migth have had 26 points and not 30, but all 26 were back breaking or tone setting or clutch. he may have only had 2 steals, but they were to end a run or blow a game open... things of that nature.

with shaq, thats how it was. stat wise maybe lebron had a higher PER or more assists or more win shares or a better eFG. but shaq dominated the game more. what he did and when he did it had more of an impact.

It is suprising this is overlooked so much... hell just look at the playoff discussions on the main board. so many people saying "he had a great game he had x amount of points and x amount of assists" only for someone to follow up and say he actuaully didnt play all that well, his scoring didint really have that big an impact and the opponent who only score 14 had a bigger impact scoring 8 straight during a big run...etc...

[arifgokcen]

Ummm.... So 09 is better than Shaq in 01? Remember Lebron didn't play a lick of defense in the series they lost and Shaq went 15-1 while putting up 30.4/15.4/3.2 on the GOAT team IMO (as long as they're playing hard). That team had about a 15 SRS in the playoffs (scored more than anyone, allowed less than anyone). Also from 2000-02 Shaq had more 4th quarter points than Kobe in the playoffs. One game doesn't change that.

Lebron didnt play defense.You do know whoever lebron is on was completely shut down others scored.

Dont get me wrong shaq has the goat peak but you are seriously underrating lebron.Especially against magic i have never seen one player do so much since i have started watching nba including 2nd peat jordan or 00-02 shaq.He was teams everything including being best perimeter defender post defender shot blocker scorer rebounder playmakers et everything you can think of he produced.He had a PER of 48 for that series.Let that sink in.He scored 49 points on 67% shooting and still lost.That series was .........

You may not remember but he had some of the most ridiculous shots especially in last seconds besides game winning three.Everytime lebron took one of the hedo-rashard other scored.

[PetroNet]

Peak Shaq won a Championship in a MUCH tougher conference with a much weaker supporting cast in a league that didn't change its rules to cater to his style of play.

Plus he put up better numbers (then Lebron has thus far).
2000 Shaq PER = 30.5
2013 LBJ PER = 25.8

I don't see any argument for Lebron here thus far.
I am dumbfounded that so many people voted for him.

People need to go back and watch some 00 Shaq games just to remember how good he was.
He wasn't even a player that year he was a force of nature.

This... Shaq made the DPOY look like a d-league scrub in the NBA finals. And the impact he had imposing his will controling the game was unmatched. from jumpstreet its "im shaq and im going to dominate you and there is nothing you can do about it"

Check the 4:28 minute of this video. triple team, shaq dunks over the entire team like nothing

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKICLZfKMG0[/youtube]

[acrossthecourt]

Are you guys really using four games from the sweep of the Bucks, when LeBron wasn't even trying, to compare to Shaq? Come on....

Lebron's game score average of the sweep: 20.3

Shaq in 2001, in an epic playoff run of the ages, the sweep against the first round opponent the Blazers? Game score average of 20.9, even though he was playing huge minutes.

[te887848]

Actually there is.

No there is not. Cite some examples if you believe otherwise.

Hmm... Prime Duncan, Robinson (still very good in 00 & 01), DPOY Mutombo, Sabonis/Sheed combo, Vlade/Webber combo.

Weak competition. Duncan owned him in 2003. Never went up against Webber. Mutombo was very old. Sabonis/Sheed were past prime and/or just average. Shaq in his prime never had the equivalent of LeBron’s wing competition. Say guys like Durant, Kobe, Wade, etc. Furthermore, Shaq was never assigned to guard the opposing team’s most dominant player. When the game is on the line, LeBron is put on Pierce, Rose, Carmelo, Durant, etc. LeBron takes the challenge of guarding the very best the game has to offer (besides himself).

The early 00's West was very strong.
Far stronger then the current East.

The league was weak overall, definitely weaker than the current NBA. The East was a laughable joke, hence the reason no one ever considered the NBA Finals to be the “real Finals” back then. Shaq’s Finals stats are great, but also inflated from playing absolutely pathetic teams.

Sure it does.
It is much easier to put up bigger stats, get to the Finals and even win the Championship if you're playing in a very weak conference.

This same logic needs to then be applied to Shaq’s Finals stats. Nobody has played weaker Finals competition than Shaq. People say “DPOY Mutombo” as if it actually means something. Deke was way over the hill at age 35. Who else did he play? 33 year old Rik Smits? Todd McCullough. His competition was terrible, far worse than LeBron’s. LeBron has never played a team in the Finals anywhere near as bad as the 00 Pacers, 01 Sixers and especially the 02 Nets.

Even if that was true it doesn't change the fact that Shaq won multiple Rings with supporting casts much weaker then what Lebron had last year and this year and he did it against much better competition.

It is true. Never in his life could Shaq dream of carrying a scrub 19-win team to 66 wins like LeBron did with Cleveland. Kobe alone (be it in 2000 or 2001 or 2003, whenever) is far, far greater than any combination of players LeBron had with him in Cleveland. Furthermore, Shaq never won multiple rings with supporting casts much weaker than what LeBron had. What he had in 2000 was comparable to what LeBron had last year (Wade equaling Kobe, Bosh and other role players equaling the Lakers role players). Before you bust out the “Bosh = perennial all-star” argument, consider what Bosh actually did in the playoffs and for how many games, not what he did with the Raptors.

Shaq's 00 & 01 runs were far more impressive in my eyes.

How so? Worse stats (at best a wash) and never had a “one for the ages” game. LeBron had two of them – Game 4 at Indiana and Game 6 at Boston.

He didn't even make the Finals and that EC was pitifully weak.
If you consider that the GOAT run its cool and I am sure you might find a few other LBJ fans who would agree but the majority of people feel differently.

So what? It’s a team game. Shaq probably wouldn’t have gotten out of the second round with the team LeBron had that year. The point is, statistically, 35/9/7 on .618 TS% and 37.4 PER is far better than anything Shaq has ever done. Averaging 39/8/8 in a series is something Shaq has never done. Take a look at any of Shaq’s playoff runs when he lost, won or whatever. He’s never had a line like that.

Who is Wade?
Also Shaq led the 00-02 Lakers in 4th quarter scoring.

Wade didn’t carry a load offensively comparable to Kobe. Just no way.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Weak competition.

I list the good competition he faced and you respond by saying this? Ok.

Duncan owned him in 2003.

Actually it was more a wash or only a slight edge to Duncan and Shaq outplayed (01) and dominated (04) Duncan in other series.

Never went up against Webber.

Yes he did.

Mutombo was very old.

Not really. He was still clearly in his Prime.
Probably slightly past his physical Peak but don't forget he didn't start playing until he was 25 and he had Karl Malonesque durability & longevity.

Sabonis/Sheed were past prime and/or just average.

Sheed was young and in his Prime. Portland had a really nasty post defense.

Shaq in his prime never had the equivalent of LeBron’s wing competition.

Shaq through his Prime faced guys like Hakeem, Duncan, KG, Robinson.
That is far more impressive then Durant plus an older Pierce.

Furthermore, Shaq was never assigned to guard the opposing team’s most dominant player.

Lebron rarely did/does that so its irrelevant and Lebron couldn't anchor a defense like Shaq could or protect the entire painted area.

The league was weak overall, definitely weaker than the current NBA.

The West back then was incomparably stronger then the current East so...

The East was a laughable joke,

It isn't much better this year if it is at all.

Shaq’s Finals stats are great, but also inflated from playing absolutely pathetic teams.

Then Lebron's stats outside of the Finals are great but inflated from playing absolutely pathetic teams.

This same logic needs to then be applied to Shaq’s Finals stats.

Shaq faced DPOY Mutombo and even Indiana had a really good post defender in Prime Dale Davis plus Indy & the Nets would double Shaq without the ball and throw 3-4 defenders at him when he put the ball on the floor.
Lebron doesn't have to deal with that kind of defensive attention...

His competition was terrible, far worse than LeBron’s.

You're completely delusional if you believe this.
The West back then was FAR stronger then the current East.

Never in his life could Shaq dream of carrying a scrub 19-win team to 66 wins like LeBron did with Cleveland.

Prove it?
Put Peak Shaq in a pathetically weak conference with a ton of excellent roleplayers + spacing and he could easily get you 60-66+ wins.

Furthermore, Shaq never won multiple rings with supporting casts much weaker than what LeBron had.

Yes he did.
His 00 & 02 casts were far weaker then what Lebron had last year or this year and he faced much stronger competition.

What he had in 2000 was comparable to what LeBron had last year.

Nah. Lebron had Bosh to go with Wade and his roleplayers were better.
Plus Kobe was injured in the 2000 Finals while Bosh was playing and beasting.

How so? Worse stats (at best a wash) and never had a “one for the ages” game. LeBron had two of them – Game 4 at Indiana and Game 6 at Boston.

Better stats and more then a handful of "one for the ages" type games in 2000 alone.
He also faced better competition and had much weaker supporting casts.

Averaging 39/8/8 in a series is something Shaq has never done.

You're wrong.
Look at some of his averages in the Finals or against the Kings in the early 00's.

Wade didn’t carry a load offensively comparable to Kobe. Just no way.

Wade (11) : 25 / 4.4apg on 57%TS
Wade (12) : 23 / 4.3apg on 53%TS

Kobe (00) : 21 / 4.4apg on 52%TS
Kobe (02) : 26 / 4.5apg on 51%TS

Not comparable? Really?

[LakerLegend]

Come on....I can't even imagine what Shaq would do in the 2000's east playoffs. Look what he did to the FINALS teams.

[LakerLegend]

...and another thing. Look what a a declining, out of shape Shaq did to prime ben Wallace. 60% shooting....even THAT Shaq wouldn't have a Finals like LeBron did in 2011.

[LakerLegend]

Lebron dominates the stat page more then he dominates the game(not that he doesnt dominate the game, he does - but not to the extent the stats indicate).

[nikomCH]

LeBron will more likely than not be facing two negative SRS teams for his first two playoff opponents and then a pretty weak Knicks team in the ECF. And then in the Finals the Thunder are basically out of the picture which leaves only the Spurs who will need everyone to be healthy to make that series even remotely close.

Could you ask for a more pathetic run of teams? LeBron has NO chance at surpassing peak Shaq's playoffs runs simply due to the fact that his competition is an absolute joke. The Heat have carried luck in their pocket all season being fortunate to never experience one major injury and then get to steamroll scrub competition.

[booster]

LeBron will more likely than not be facing two negative SRS teams for his first two playoff opponents and then a pretty weak Knicks team in the ECF. And then in the Finals the Thunder are basically out of the picture which leaves only the Spurs who will need everyone to be healthy to make that series even remotely close.

Could you ask for a more pathetic run of teams? LeBron has NO chance at surpassing peak Shaq's playoffs runs simply due to the fact that his competition is an absolute joke. The Heat have carried luck in their pocket all season being fortunate to never experience one major injury and then get to steamroll scrub competition.

Yea we missed out on a bulls/heat match up last year. It's such a shame because i think they were the only team that could've beaten miami had they had rose healthy.

Although i don't think it is a guarantee Miami makes it back to the finals. They could get upset by the Knicks if one of the big 3 is playing with a serious injury while the Knicks are all healthy.

[TheChosen618]

I would probably go with Lebron. He doesn't have any weaknesses in his game, you can mold him to any player you want to become, and ask him to do anything you want him to do and he will excel at it.

I don't think there is any player that is more valuable to his team than Lebron. It is mainly because of his do it all ability and the fact that he is pretty much the best at every facet of the game on his team. The Heat's entire offensive and defensive gameplan is based off of Lebron's strengths.

The only people say Shaq by far or think this comparison is easy are people that are in denial about how great Lebron was, which plenty of people are. They know that if Lebron is arguably better than Shaq at his best than he could arguably be better than Jordan at his best.

[E-Balla]

I would probably go with Lebron. He doesn't have any weaknesses in his game, you can mold him to any player you want to become, and ask him to do anything you want him to do and he will excel at it.

I don't think there is any player that is more valuable to his team than Lebron. It is mainly because of his do it all ability and the fact that he is pretty much the best at every facet of the game on his team. The Heat's entire offensive and defensive gameplan is based off of Lebron's strengths.

The only people say Shaq by far or think this comparison is easy are people that are in denial about how great Lebron was, which plenty of people are. They know that if Lebron is arguably better than Shaq at his best than he could arguably be better than Jordan at his best.

Hate to burst your bubble but this has nothing to do with Jordan. That Jordan or Lebron thread had a different set of posters. I personally believe Shaq's peak is better than ______'s peak. Insert whoever's name you want.

Lebron has all around ability which is great and puts him in the top 5 but can he simply dunk on a team for 48 minutes?

[TheChosen618]

Lebron has all around ability which is great and puts him in the top 5 but can he simply dunk on a team for 48 minutes?

No, but Shaq can't either, so what is your point? It seems like you might be caught up in watching Shaq highlight films and mixtapes of him dunking over everyone. He probably did average about 5 dunks per game, but it's not like he always dunked on every single possession.

His FT shooting was too much of a flaw and that was why his TS% was never that great.

[E-Balla]

Lebron has all around ability which is great and puts him in the top 5 but can he simply dunk on a team for 48 minutes?

No, but Shaq can't either, so what is your point? It seems like you might be caught up in watching Shaq highlight films and mixtapes of him dunking over everyone. He probably did average about 5 dunks per game, but it's not like he always dunked on every single possession.

His FT shooting was too much of a flaw and that was why his TS% was never that great.

He averaged 3.3 dunks a game in 2001. That means that 17% of his field goal attempts were dunks (it was even higher in 02 and 00). Shaq also took 88.7% of his shots within 10 feet and 43.5% of his shots at the rim. He was 60% inside of 10 feet and 79% inside of 3 feet. I was exaggerating but he took more field goal attempts inside than anyone ever and those are gimme buckets.

[te887848]

Actually it was more a wash or only a slight edge to Duncan and Shaq outplayed (01) and dominated (04) Duncan in other series.

Um, ok? LeBron has never let his counterpart get the best of him individually. Shaq got outplayed by both Duncan and Hakeem.

Not really. He was still clearly in his Prime.
Probably slightly past his physical Peak but don't forget he didn't start playing until he was 25 and he had Karl Malonesque durability & longevity.

Nobody playing at age 35 is in his prime. That’s just a fact of basketball. Being durable doesn’t change the fact that at a certain age, you are past your prime.

Shaq through his Prime faced guys like Hakeem, Duncan, KG, Robinson.
That is far more impressive then Durant plus an older Pierce.

No, he did not go up against Garnett, Hakeem or prime Robinson in his prime (2000’s). Heck, when Shaq was winning his titles and in his prime (2000’s), there was never a player at his position anywhere near as good as Durant (I.e. good enough to be deemed a first ballot HOF’er and #2 player in the league). The best centers in the league at this time were guys like washed up Mutombo, Ben Wallace, Jermaine O’Neal, etc. Furthermore, it’s the fact that LeBron accepts the defensive assignment of defending an opposing team’s best player (no matter the position) when it matters that allows me to extend his “competition” to players who play different positions than he does. Obviously you can’t do this for Shaq, because he was too one-dimensional and slow to have that kind of defensive versatility.

Lebron rarely did/does that so its irrelevant and Lebron couldn't anchor a defense like Shaq could or protect the entire painted area.

He does it all the time in the playoffs during the most important point of the game – the fourth quarter. Shaq could never dream of being able to single-handedly shut down the opposing team’s transition game and while simultaneously shutting down their best perimeter scorer one on one.

The West back then was incomparably stronger then the current East so...

Well overall the league is better today. The Heat are unequivocally better than any team in today’s West, which is comparable to the West back in Shaq’s prime.

Then Lebron's stats outside of the Finals are great but inflated from playing absolutely pathetic teams.

Teams that had better defensive rankings than whomever Shaq played?

Prove it?
Put Peak Shaq in a pathetically weak conference with a ton of excellent roleplayers + spacing and he could easily get you 60-66+ wins.

No he couldn’t. He only broke 60+ once in his career post-1997. A bunch of low to mid 50 win seasons during the other years despite playing with prime Kobe. And somehow he can lead Mo Williams, Delonte West, and Damon Jones to 60+?

Yes he did.
His 00 & 02 casts were far weaker then what Lebron had last year or this year and he faced much stronger competition.

No it was not. Kobe was as good as Wade in 2000 and 2002 and didn’t have the nagging injuries. Bosh and the Heat’s role players are comparable to the Lakers’ role players on Shaq’s teams. Again, keep in mind what Bosh actually accomplished in the playoffs without taking into consideration his reputation from his Toronto days.

Nah. Lebron had Bosh to go with Wade and his roleplayers were better.
Plus Kobe was injured in the 2000 Finals while Bosh was playing and beasting.

Wade was injured throughout the entire playoffs. Bosh basically missed the entire second and third round. No way were his role players better. They were underachieving before they reached the Finals. Rice/Harper/Horry > Chalmers/Miller/Batter in 2012. Bosh put up 14/9 in the Finals. Solid numbers, but hardly “beasting.”

Better stats and more then a handful of "one for the ages" type games in 2000 alone.
He also faced better competition and had much weaker supporting casts.

How are they better stats? He was less efficient and his raw numbers are about the same (31/15/3 vs. 30/10/6) and he never had a game like LeBron’s Game 6 at Boston. Just never. Furthermore, there’s no arguing that Shaq had better stats than LeBron 2009 – 35/9/7/.618 TS/37.4 PER. It’s not an opinion. The numbers are clearly worse.

You're wrong.
Look at some of his averages in the Finals or against the Kings in the early 00's.

Nope. Never had anything as good as or better than 39/8/8 series average or a playoff PER of 37.4.

Wade (11) : 25 / 4.4apg on 57%TS
Wade (12) : 23 / 4.3apg on 53%TS

Kobe (00) : 21 / 4.4apg on 52%TS
Kobe (02) : 26 / 4.5apg on 51%TS

Not comparable? Really?

Taking my quote out of context there. 2012 playoff Wade was not as good or healthy as 2000-2002 playoff Kobe. It's amazing how overrated Shaq has become. How quickly we forget that this "MDE" and "peak GOAT" was so close to being bounced out of the WCF by a vastly inferior Blazers team and two years later by the Kings. LeBron at least had an excuse to nearly lose last year - basically his entire team was decimated by injuries.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Um, ok? LeBron has never let his counterpart get the best of him individually. Shaq got outplayed by both Duncan and Hakeem.

Lebron has never been outplayed by other Star Players?
You and me both know that isn't true.

Dude got outplayed by Dwight Howard before in the playoffs.

Nobody playing at age 35 is in his prime.

He was 34 and yes he was still clearly in his Prime.
Past his physical Peak but not by much.

No, he did not go up against Garnett, Hakeem or prime Robinson in his prime (2000’s).

He went up against Peak Garnett in 04 and outplayed him and faced a still very potent Robinson in 01.
He also faced Hakeem throughout the 90's and in the playoffs twice.

Heck, when Shaq was winning his titles and in his prime (2000’s), there was never a player at his position anywhere near as good as Durant (I.e. good enough to be deemed a first ballot HOF’er and #2 player in the league).

Who is Tim Duncan?
It is true that they didn't guard each-other the majority of the time but same is true with Lebron & Durant.

Honestly besides Durant who were these great wing players Lebron was racing?

He does it all the time in the playoffs during the most important point of the game – the fourth quarter.

That isn't true. He rarely guards guys like Durant or Kobe regardless of what quarter it is.

Shaq could never dream of being able to single-handedly shut down the opposing team’s transition game and while simultaneously shutting down their best perimeter scorer one on one.

Lebron cannot do the bolded and while I agree Shaq is less versatile in terms of who he can guard 1v1 he can truly anchor a teams defense and protect the entire painted area which is much more valuable and something Lebron could never dream of doing.

Well overall the league is better today. The Heat are unequivocally better than any team in today’s West.

Which is irrelevant since Lebron is on the Heat.
The rest of the East is very weak.

No he couldn’t. He only broke 60+ once in his career post-1997.

He won 68 games I believe in 2000 with just baby Kobe and some roleplayers in a very strong conference.
Put him in a pathetically weak eastern conference with a bunch of floor spacers, excellent roleplayers and a guy or two who can even create off the dribble and I don't see why he couldn't easily lead them to 60+ wins.

No it was not. Kobe was as good as Wade in 2000 and 2002 and didn’t have the nagging injuries. Bosh and the Heat’s role players are comparable to the Lakers’ role players on Shaq’s teams.

I disagree.
While Kobe & Wade are a wash Bosh is FAR better then any 3rd man Shaq had and the Heat roleplayers are/were also better imo.

Lebron just has the stronger cast overall mainly due to have a legit 3rd All-Star level player in Bosh and outside of that you can't forget he is playing in a much weaker conference.

How are they better stats?

30.5 PER >> 30.3 PER
Especially considering Shaq put up his numbers against far better competition in a league that didn't change its rules to benefit his style of play.

He never had a game like LeBron’s Game 6 at Boston. Just never.

You keep saying this nonsense... let me show you a few of his best games from the early 00's.
These are games just from the 2000 playoffs.

-46 / 17 / 5blk / 2stl
-43 / 19 / 4blk / 3ast
-41 / 11 / 5blk / 7ast
-40 / 24 / 3blk / 4ast

Want some more gems?
Lets go to 2001.

-44 / 21 / 7blk / 4ast
-44 / 20 / 5ast
-28 / 20 / 9ast / 8blk

Never had anything as good as or better than 39/8/8 series average.

38 / 17 / 2apg / 3bpg in 2000 Finals
33 / 17 / 3apg / 3bpg on 60% shooting against SAC in 2001.
33 / 16 / 5apg / 3.4bpg against DPOY Mutombo

It's amazing how overrated Shaq has become.

-GOAT Finals performer.
-Arguably the 2nd best playoff performer & playoff career after Jordan
-Only clearly behind Jordan & Russell when it comes to Rings won as the man.

Overrated? More like blatantly Underrated.

Was so close to being bounced out of the WCF by a vastly inferior Blazers team.

That Blazers team was far better without their best player then the Lakers were without Shaq & if not for Kobe and everyone else on the LA besides Shaq sh*tting the bed epically in G5 the series would have never even needed a G6 or a G7.

LeBron at least had an excuse to nearly lose last year - basically his entire team was decimated by injuries.

Lebron wouldn't have even been able to lead the Heat past Indy (2nd round) if not for Wade who was brilliant in the first two rounds and brilliant in most of the Boston wins and in the Finals both Wade & Bosh were healthy and playing.

[Jordan23Forever]

and he never had a game like LeBron’s Game 6 at Boston. Just never.

Shaq had games of 46 pts/17 reb, 43/19/4 ast (Finals) and three games of 43+/20+ in the season postseason (2001). He also had a 40 pt/24 reb/4 ast game where he had 39 FTA - he completely dominated the Pacers, nearly fouling out their entire team.

So yes, Shaq has certainly had a few games on James' 45/15/5 level or better.

[te887848]

and he never had a game like LeBron’s Game 6 at Boston. Just never.

Shaq had games of 46 pts/17 reb, 43/19/4 ast (Finals) and three games of 43+/20+ in the season postseason (2001). He also had a 40 pt/24 reb/4 ast game where he had 39 FTA - he completely dominated the Pacers, nearly fouling out their entire team.

So yes, Shaq has certainly had a few games on James' 45/15/5 level or better.

Definitely not. First off, the the Pacers were a joke defensively compared to the 2012 Celtics and just a thoroughly mediocre defensive team in general. LeBron did what he did against arguably the #1 defense in the league. Furthermore, stats alone don't accurately capture the utter dominance of LeBron's Game 6 at Boston. That was simply a game nobody will ever forget if they saw it. It was on the level of LeBron's 2007 Game 5 at Detroit. Put it into proper context - Game 6 on the road, elimination game, playoff hopes on the line against the league's best defense, etc. And not only that, the game was so out of hand by the beginning of the 4th that LeBron essentially sat most of it. Had he played the 4th, you easily could have seen a line of 55/20/7 or something similar.

You don't need to look at the stats to remember what LeBron did last year (or 2007 Game 5 at Detroit). That's how awesome it was. Honestly, without looking up basketball-reference, nobody remembers any of Shaq's best moments.