Just how good is Popovich?

[Cowology]

Absolutely amazing, the greatest overall coach in NBA history

He's great, but you're overrating him quite a bit.

I view coaches in different realms personally.

Phil Jackson is the best talent manager ever but x & o's wise, hes slightly above avg to me.

Larry Brown is the best x & o's coach ever imo.

Pop is a bit of both.

Again, just my opinion. This isnt a cut & dry discussion.

More of less agree. Your evaluation of Phil is pretty spot on and LB is certainly one of the best X/O guys, just not sure I'd declare him to be the best. Regardless, you are correct about Pop being able to do both. Again, not sure I'd call him the best ever, but he's in my top 5 and after that it's pretty damn debatable. I know talent has a LOT to do with it...but hard to argue against the success of guys like Auerbach, Phil & Riley.

[StickAndMove]

As far as basketball coaches alive today, at any level, I think there's Phil Jackson at the top, and a huge gap between him and everyone else.

Having said that, I'd put only Popovich and Riley on the second tier, with another big gap to the next tier, which would include guys like Coach K, Rick Carlisle, Doc, Calipari, etc.

Larry Brown would have to be in that third tier too but I always have a hard time giving him his due credit because he could never remain effective with a team beyond five years or so. To me, that suggests his motivational skills were significantly flawed. Also, I always felt the Pistons would've won that championship with Carlisle, as well, and the difference in the team was Rasheed, not the coaching change.

[MrBigShot]

I view coaches in different realms personally.
Phil Jackson is the best talent manager ever but x & o's wise, hes slightly above avg to me.
Larry Brown is the best x & o's coach ever imo.
Pop is a bit of both.
Again, just my opinion. This isnt a cut & dry discussion.

I agree with you as well. I feel like Riley, Red, and Daly need to be in that discussion, but if I'm starting a franchise and I have a choice of any NBA coach, I'm taking Pop.

[Goldtop]

As far as basketball coaches alive today, at any level, I think there's Phil Jackson at the top, and a huge gap between him and everyone else.

Having said that, I'd put only Popovich and Riley on the second tier, with another big gap to the next tier, which would include guys like Coach K, Rick Carlisle, Doc, Calipari, etc.

Larry Brown would have to be in that third tier too but I always have a hard time giving him his due credit because he could never remain effective with a team beyond five years or so. To me, that suggests his motivational skills were significantly flawed. Also, I always felt the Pistons would've won that championship with Carlisle, as well, and the difference in the team was Rasheed, not the coaching change.

If we are talking basketball coach's overall, not just NBA, Brown and Daly both go above Popovich.

LB is only coach ever to win an NCAA and NBA championship. That feat is remarkable to me and the sign of true coaching greatness, and trumps Popovich's NBA accomplishments for me.

Daly won 2 championships and also coached the greatest team ever in the Dream Team. As we saw with other teams that failed with HOF rosters, the coach matters.

I still rank Daly above Popovich in NBA too. I just think winning 2 in the 80s, nearly 3 straight, is more impressive than winning 3 every other year + 1 lockout championship in todays era.

I also can't ignore how all his failures against Phil in the playoffs, whereas Daly owned Phil in the playoffs - when he had Jordan. Thats impressive. Plus all those years Popovichs teams failed early in the playoffs taints his resume some for me, like losing to an 8 seed in the 1st round

I'd say in NBA history, its Phil/Red tier 1, Riley/Daly/Popovich tier 2, Brown/Tomjanovich/Red Holzman tier 3

Overall, Phil/Red/Wooden tier 1, Riley/Daly/Brown/Coach K tier 2, Popovich, Dean Smith tier 3.

[StickAndMove]

I disagree about Larry Brown over Pop -- I'll take four rings over one and a NCAA championship. There's a good point there, I just don't think it means as much that he's the only one to accomplish it. I think most of the great NBA coaches have no interest in going to the NCAA.

As for Chuck Daly, Auerbach, Wooden, etc., I can't say. Basketball has changed too much over its history. The rules changed, from the shot clock, to the three-point line, to hand-checking, and so on. To avoid trying to factor all of that in, I went with "basketball coaches alive today".

Also, I think Larry Brown deserves blame as the head coach of the 2004 Team USA that took bronze. Pop was an assistant, so he takes a hit, too, but not as much as Larry. The players of course deserve a lot of blame, but to me, Brown clearly came across as incapable of managing their egos.

[Goldtop]

Popovich deserves every bit of blame as Brown for that team, yet somehow gets off with little to no blame whenever its brought up, as if he wasn't even there.

Popovich may have been labeled assistant, but I'm sure Brown wasn't dictating the game to him. It was more likely the two working together 50-50 as they are close friends. Plus, the best player on the team was his guy in Duncan, and the 2nd best player was Browns guy in Iverson, so I'm sure it was a joint coaching venture, and he deserves as much blame as LB.

tbh, whoever selected the team and thought Duncan and Iverson could co-exist, or that Iverson even belonged on that team is probably most to blame. I think the whole thing with Larry coming straight from winning in Detroit and having to coach AI again, after just abandoning him in Philly the year before, probably wasnt a good idea to pair them together again at that point in time.

[StickAndMove]

I don't have inside knowledge, so I can't say they weren't working together 50/50, but from an outsider's perspective, I see Larry Brown as the head coach, and Popovich as one of three assistant coaches, alongside Roy Williams and Oliver Purnell. Simply put, Larry gets more blame because he was the head coach. It's not like people give D'Antoni equal credit as Coach K. The same guys who get the bulk of glory in victory get the brunt of the blame in defeat.

The team did seem to be poorly selected, I agree. At the same time, part of coaching is managing the guys you're given to work with. Most coaches don't have much say in the moves the GM makes. Which, I think, kind of explains why Larry likes coaching in college. He more or less gets to be the GM and the coach.

[Clarity]

Totally agree Cowology, having the best pf to ever play the game for virtually your entire coaching tenure obviously is a game changer.