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NBA Games Discussion Thread

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1181 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat May 4, 2013 11:09 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Nene is owed $39 million and his game is in rapid decline due to a chronic physical impairment which causes him to miss games at times. Also, he is on the wrong side of 30. He is flat better than Javale when healthy, but how often is that?

McGee is young, healthy, and indeed has a better, more moveable contract than Nene's.

All I posted was McGee's skills off the bench would be better than Kevin's, but since you guys want to go there deal with Nene's worth and health every time you hate on McGee.


Nene lost his athleticism a while ago... before he even got here he wasn't the same guy in his youth but he was insanely efficient his last few years in Denver and even with us at the end of 2011-2012 and the beginning of this season.

I don't think its Nene's game that is in decline, he just is injury prone as hell. But his game is light years ahead of JaVale's even with Nene on one leg and one arm as he was playing all season. The basketball IQ of the team rises with his precense on the court and it helps the team.

JaVale hustles and he plays with a lot of energy and heart. He also finishes at the rim and has developed some moves down low but his IQ is still low and his defensive abilities are very suspect even still. I'm not surprised Koufos got PT ahead of him.

Denver lost this series because of George Karl's coaching. Dumb, dumb lineups with Wilson Chandler at the 5 vs. Bogut early in this series. I thought last night he finally went big and had JaVale and Faried out together which was great because they got tons of offensive rebounds. They just couldn't get the layups to fall.


Nice post, FAH1223.

You're right. I was wrong to say Nene is in decline--it's his health that just won't allow him to do what he knows how to do. Fine line of difference, but I see your point.

Javale is all heart and hustle but quite unsound on adhering to knowledge and principles needed to be good defensively. Just like you can't coach height or athleticism, neither can you coach intellectual capacity. If you try to pour a gallon if milk into a drinking glass, that glass is only going to hold its 12 or so ounces. McGee has some intellectual barriers that impact him at both ends of the court.

Karl seems like a great guy and he's a warrior for being a cancer survivor. However, he was in over his coaching depth against Mark Jackson. There is a reason Denver has lost in the first round 9 of the last 10 times. Flip Saunders had a similar stat with Minnesota. When it keeps happening, the coach bears some responsibility. Karl was slow to switch and totally out-coached IMO.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1182 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat May 4, 2013 11:45 pm

dobrojim wrote:I stand by my opinion that McGee is a considerable obstruction
to winning basketball which is incredibly ironic/paradoxical.
He does have mad skills. He simply has no idea how to play.

I'll take Nene 7 days a week and 2x on Sunday.


I'll take McGee, put him next to Seraphin, and watch them physically overwhelm people and learn as they go.

Neither guy has a clue how to play but they've got youthful exuberance. Bring in guys like Okafor, Evans, Humphries--NOT Blatche-- to be around them.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1183 » by hands11 » Sun May 5, 2013 12:41 am

nate33 wrote:I really hate Chris Paul. He's such a punk. It's a shame because he's a fabulous basketball player.


I have felt that way for a long time.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1184 » by RustyMagoo » Sun May 5, 2013 1:12 am

Blatche is a revolving door on defense. It's hilarious to watch.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1185 » by popper » Sun May 5, 2013 4:00 am

CP should be suspended for multiple games at the beginning of next season.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1186 » by FAH1223 » Sun May 5, 2013 2:37 pm

RustyMagoo wrote:Blatche is a revolving door on defense. It's hilarious to watch.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmuDKM-GVeE[/youtube] :lol:
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1187 » by LyricalRico » Sun May 5, 2013 7:31 pm

hands11 wrote:Glad to see MEM take down the LAC.

Thats another team that will likely look very different next year.

If CP3 leaves, Grant Hill retires. Barnes could leave. Same with Odom, Billups. Bulters not getting any younger.

They might not even make the playoff next year.


I could actually see CP3 leaving, especially considering that Donald Sterling is unlikely to pay even the first level of luxury tax to add pieces.

How about a punk consolidation in Atlanta where both Paul and Dwight Howard sign there in the offseason? The Hawks have two first round picks this year, so trading the rights to those players, plus future picks could work (like what Miami did to get LeBron and Bosh). They might even have room for Paul to bring a guy like Barnes with him to fill the SF spot, while still holding on to some of their cheaper bench players.

Howard/Petro
Horford/Johnson
Barnes/Jenkins
Stevenson/Williams
Paul/Teague
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1188 » by doclinkin » Sun May 5, 2013 8:32 pm

Wasn't Paul mentioned as part of the South Beach Talent insurgency?
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1189 » by FAH1223 » Sun May 5, 2013 11:24 pm

Memphis choked away that game in OKC. Can't believe Mike Conley let Derrick Fisher pick his pocket in the last 20 seconds. Throw it down to Zbo or Gasol in that instance and let them go to work or find the open shooter. With that said, I expect Memphis to clean up these silly mistakes and get back to the basics. It is not a good omen for OKC that they struggled at home and Durant had to get 35, 15, and 6 to get this win. I doubt he can keep doing that for a whole series. I also doubt Kevin Martin can keep getting 25 PPG a night. Ibaka should bounce back a bit though.

Indiana man handled the Knicks. The Knicks are not too hard to defend because of their ISO heavy offense and their shooters not having quick releases off the catch. Plus they have no low post scoring. Indiana plays better defense than Boston because they rebound better than the Celtics. Hopefully the Pacers can keep it going.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1190 » by pancakes3 » Mon May 6, 2013 4:40 am

On one hand 35/15/6 are superhuman numbers. On the other hand, Durant is potentially THAT good. He was a monster tonight in all facets of the game.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1191 » by GhostsOfGil » Mon May 6, 2013 1:35 pm

The Knicks/Pacers game was terribly officiated on both ends. The 3 fouls in 30 seconds on Hans, the weak moving screens, and the no calls on melo were baffling. I'm not sure the pacers will have the same kind of success if the game is called more consistently.

with that said, it was a lof of fun reading butt hurt knicks fans whine on twitter.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1192 » by fishercob » Mon May 6, 2013 1:45 pm

FWIW/FYI, here are the remaining teams in the playoffs and their rankings in offensive and defensive efficiency during the regular season:

Heat: 2,9
Bulls: 23, 6
Knicks: 3,18
Pacers: 19, 1
Spurs: 7, 3
OKC: 1, 4
GSW: 11, 14
Grizz: 17,2

Rankings of the 8 teams that lost in the 1R:

BOS: 7,24
Nets: 8,17
ATL: 18, 10
MIL: 22,12
DEN 5,11
LAC: 9,8
LAL: 9,20
HOU: 6,16


Several quick takes:

(1) Nivek has referenced studies have that have shown that offense and defense are equally important -- defenses don't "win championships" any more than offenses do. That said, interesting to see BKN and LAC taken out by elite defensive teams with mediocre offenses.

(2) Knicks and Pacers are complete mirror images of one another elite offense and so-so D against elite so-so offense. Interesting.

(3) Durant and Westbrook are such good scorers that OKC doesn't get noticed for being an elite defensive team

(3) Tom Thibedeau is coach of the decade. If Bulls had Deng and Hinrich healthy (let alone ROse), they could push Miami.

(4) Only 1 team ranked top-12 in defense didn't make the playoffs -- YOUR Washington Wizards, ranked 5th The 30th worst offense in the league will do that to you.

(5)Best offense not to make the playoffs was Utah (10, 21st in D).

(6)The west is a lot better than the East
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1193 » by pancakes3 » Mon May 6, 2013 2:08 pm

As a quick and dirty, if offense and defense are the same, we can look at the ranking sums.

Heat: 11
Bulls: 29
Knicks: 21
Pacers: 20
Spurs: 10
OKC: 5
GSW: 25
Grizz: 19

Rankings of the 8 teams that lost in the 1R:

BOS: 31
Nets: 35
ATL: 28
MIL: 34
DEN 16
LAC: 17
LAL: 29
HOU: 22

So it seems that Golden State was a slight upset and the Bulls upset is pretty epic. It isn't much of a surprise that the Clips lost and the Pacers and Knicks are also closer than popular consensus is. It also suggests that Miami isn't perhaps the juggernaut that popular opinion is either, though Westbrook going down does help their cause. The spurs could "surprise" everyone since after all it is an odd number year.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1194 » by fishercob » Mon May 6, 2013 2:13 pm

pancakes3 wrote:As a quick and dirty, if offense and defense are the same, we can look at the ranking sums.

Heat: 11
Bulls: 29
Knicks: 21
Pacers: 20
Spurs: 10
OKC: 5
GSW: 25
Grizz: 19

Rankings of the 8 teams that lost in the 1R:

BOS: 31
Nets: 35
ATL: 28
MIL: 34
DEN 16
LAC: 17
LAL: 29
HOU: 22

So it seems that Golden State was a slight upset and the Bulls upset is pretty epic. It isn't much of a surprise that the Clips lost and the Pacers and Knicks are also closer than popular consensus is. It also suggests that Miami isn't perhaps the juggernaut that popular opinion is either, though Westbrook going down does help their cause. The spurs could "surprise" everyone since after all it is an odd number year.


Why was the Bulls upset epic? They were pretty comparable to Brooklyn (25 v 29).
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1195 » by Nivek » Mon May 6, 2013 2:20 pm

fishercob wrote:FWIW/FYI, here are the remaining teams in the playoffs and their rankings in offensive and defensive efficiency during the regular season:

Heat: 2,9
Bulls: 23, 6
Knicks: 3,18
Pacers: 19, 1
Spurs: 7, 3
OKC: 1, 4
GSW: 11, 14
Grizz: 17,2

Rankings of the 8 teams that lost in the 1R:

BOS: 7,24
Nets: 8,17
ATL: 18, 10
MIL: 22,12
DEN 5,11
LAC: 9,8
LAL: 9,20
HOU: 6,16


Several quick takes:

(1) Nivek has referenced studies have that have shown that offense and defense are equally important -- defenses don't "win championships" any more than offenses do. That said, interesting to see BKN and LAC taken out by elite defensive teams with mediocre offenses.


That was true, but the "equally important" thing seems to have changed a bit over the past decade. From 2977-2001, the average regular reason rank for the eventual champ was 5.2 on offense and 5.6 on defense. From 2002-2012: 7.9 and 4.3. We see the same thing in the runner-up numbers. From 1977-2001 the ortg rank was 6.6; the drtg rank was 7.3. Since then: 10.0 and 5.0.

Eliminating the biggest outlier during that 2002 to present period (the Pistons, who ranked 18th on offense) doesn't change the analysis much. Over the past decade, reality has finally caught up with the conventional wisdom, and defense has become a bit more important than offense when it comes to competing for and winning a championship.

Hmm, this seems like a worthwhile blog topic. :)
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1196 » by pancakes3 » Mon May 6, 2013 3:52 pm

fishercob wrote:Why was the Bulls upset epic? They were pretty comparable to Brooklyn (25 v 29).


You're right. Misread numbers, also misadded some too. :oops:
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1197 » by Silvie Lysandra » Mon May 6, 2013 6:35 pm

" I have no problem with the moves Presti made outside of Perkins"

Lol, Presti has been exposed BADLY. He's barely a notch above Ernie. He knows how to pick talent but his teambuilding and cap management is hilariously bad. Drafting Green was an idiotic move to start with seeing Noah was on the board. Strict BPA doesn't work in basketball unless it's a MJ versus Bowie situation. Trading Green for Perk only compounded the error. Also let's add godawful picks like Aldrich when Larry Sanders and Avery Bradley and lots of other good players were on the board. And then trading Harden for a crappy return because he signed Perkins to a huge deal.

Average to above-average GM at best; the OKC model is a fraud. It's literally "have high picks when a superstar is on the board" and Presti got lucky a few times.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1198 » by Higga » Mon May 6, 2013 6:42 pm

Joking Noah is an hero.

Memphis is gonna knock off OKC.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1199 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon May 6, 2013 7:38 pm

Kevin Martin has really stepped up for OKC the past couple games. Durant is not the only Thunder scorer. He's by far the best but Martin is a legit second option. Martin's career is on an upward progression now that he is with OKC.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread 

Post#1200 » by jivelikenice » Mon May 6, 2013 7:52 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:" I have no problem with the moves Presti made outside of Perkins"

Lol, Presti has been exposed BADLY. He's barely a notch above Ernie. He knows how to pick talent but his teambuilding and cap management is hilariously bad. Drafting Green was an idiotic move to start with seeing Noah was on the board. Strict BPA doesn't work in basketball unless it's a MJ versus Bowie situation. Trading Green for Perk only compounded the error. Also let's add godawful picks like Aldrich when Larry Sanders and Avery Bradley and lots of other good players were on the board. And then trading Harden for a crappy return because he signed Perkins to a huge deal.

Average to above-average GM at best; the OKC model is a fraud. It's literally "have high picks when a superstar is on the board" and Presti got lucky a few times.


Can't really argue this.

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