How much time does Blanco have?

[Parataxis]

I knew he was never really considered a great hitter, but I didn't realise he was so far below the Mendoza line, yikes! With Thole in the system, who can also catch Dickey, how much longer does Blanco likely have before he's given the hook?

I can't imagine they're too happy with his output.

[hyper316]

give thole a go

[There There]

I knew he was never really considered a great hitter, but I didn't realise he was so far below the Mendoza line, yikes! With Thole in the system, who can also catch Dickey, how much longer does Blanco likely have before he's given the hook?

I can't imagine they're too happy with his output.

Why would they have Thole sit on the bench four out of every five games when he has options and can get regular at bats in Buffalo?

Really, for everything that has gone wrong for this team so far, back up catcher is the least of it.

And Thole is far from an accomplished offensive player, so getting regular at bats would actually benefit him.

If JP misses any time, then Thole will be the everyday guy.

[Randle McMurphy]

Plenty of time, I'm sure. Blanco isn't here to hit, he's here to catch Dickey (which he has done fine).

[Santoki]

I knew he was never really considered a great hitter, but I didn't realise he was so far below the Mendoza line, yikes! With Thole in the system, who can also catch Dickey, how much longer does Blanco likely have before he's given the hook?

I can't imagine they're too happy with his output.

Why would they have Thole sit on the bench four out of every five games when he has options and can get regular at bats in Buffalo?

Really, for everything that has gone wrong for this team so far, back up catcher is the least of it.

And Thole is far from an accomplished offensive player, so getting regular at bats would actually benefit him.

If JP misses any time, then Thole will be the everyday guy.

Then play Thole 2 out of every 5 games and have JPA just DH those games. Problem solved.

[There There]

Then play Thole 2 out of every 5 games and have JPA just DH those games. Problem solved.

Not really, since Thole is playing far more frequently now in Buffalo now, and if he had to be pressed in later as the everyday catcher, you'd be glad he is playing everyday now.

But regardless, You kind of missed the point.

Thole is not nearly a good enough bat to force it into the lineup.

And Blanco is doing exactly what the team wanted from him, providing stability and consistency behind the plate when Dickey is throwing.

[dagger]

Then play Thole 2 out of every 5 games and have JPA just DH those games. Problem solved.

Not really, since Thole is playing far more frequently now in Buffalo now, and if he had to be pressed in later as the everyday catcher, you'd be glad he is playing everyday now.

But regardless, You kind of missed the point.

Thole is not nearly a good enough bat to force it into the lineup.

And Blanco is doing exactly what the team wanted from him, providing stability and consistency behind the plate when Dickey is throwing.

How do you know this? Thole's worst season BA in NY was .237 and he hit higher in his first two seasons (.277 as a rookie). He is hitting consistently in BUF, with a good KO and BB rate. And the Jays have made a virtue out of late-bloomers. I'd bet his D is better than JPA's, too.

I like the idea of pushing some of our guys. Maybe someone should push Lawrie a little harder because his .180 average isn't getting it done.

JPA sat to start last night, wasn't happy about it, and responded well off the bench.

And what's the big concern with Thole playing every day. If you have talent, and have rolled the dice on the major league roster with big trades, doesn't going all in mean you don't have stiffs like Blanco as that pinch hitter for the 9th inning, or as a spot starter, or DH? Thole isn't signed for Buerhle money but he is signed to a major league contract for this season and next, and the Jays are getting encouraging offence from AJ Jimenez in his rehab so it's not like we have to be protective of Thole as if he's a golden prospect who has to be brought along cautiously.

[There There]

How do I know Thole doesn't offer much at the plate ?

Because there is more than just batting average ?

Thole's value at the plate is entirely dependent on getting lucky on balls in play and taking the occasional walk, because when he hits the ball, it doesn't really go anywhere, as indicated by his extremely low ISO throughout each level, save for AAA.

Thole very likely is a better fielder than JP, but that is no significant feat, and i've never really heard anyone rave about his glove.

And it is entirely possible if Thole got really lucky on balls in play, that he could even provide more overall offensive value than JP, but JP absolutely has the higher offensive ceiling and I get why the team is rolling the dice on him. In spite of all the strikeouts, JP has still been one of the team's better offensive players so far this year.

Besides, the question wasn't Thole vs JP. It was Thole vs Blanco.

And there is no point to having Thole rot on the bench when you can get regular playing time in Buffalo due to his options. What is the big deal with regular playing time ? To keep him game ready in case JP were to go down. It has nothing to do with prospect status; Thole is not a prospect and no one is expecting him to improve significantly from playing everyday in Buffalo. But it does keep him game ready.

Rightly or wrongly, managers very rarely use back up catchers as pinch hitters.
So you're not looking at Thole vs Blanco as an option in key situations.

[RapsFanInVA]

Probably about 35-40 years until he kicks the bucket. He still does the Insanity workout every day so he'll be able to fend off cardiovascular disease for awhile.

[kwamebargnani]

Vizquel stayed here forever. Blanco will stay here forever.

[Avenger]

How do I know Thole doesn't offer much at the plate ?

Because there is more than just batting average ?

Thole's value at the plate is entirely dependent on getting lucky on balls in play and taking the occasional walk, because when he hits the ball, it doesn't really go anywhere, as indicated by his extremely low ISO throughout each level, save for AAA.

Thole very likely is a better fielder than JP, but that is no significant feat, and i've never really heard anyone rave about his glove.

And it is entirely possible if Thole got really lucky on balls in play, that he could even provide more overall offensive value than JP, but JP absolutely has the higher offensive ceiling and I get why the team is rolling the dice on him. In spite of all the strikeouts, JP has still been one of the team's better offensive players so far this year.

Besides, the question wasn't Thole vs JP. It was Thole vs Blanco.

And there is no point to having Thole rot on the bench when you can get regular playing time in Buffalo due to his options. What is the big deal with regular playing time ? To keep him game ready in case JP were to go down. It has nothing to do with prospect status; Thole is not a prospect and no one is expecting him to improve significantly from playing everyday in Buffalo. But it does keep him game ready.

Rightly or wrongly, managers very rarely use back up catchers as pinch hitters.
So you're not looking at Thole vs Blanco as an option in key situations.

This is absurd, Thole does more than put up empty batting averages. He has a career .380 OBP in the minors, that more than just "an occasional walk" and he's done it all at age appropriate levels, its not like he dominated A ball kiddies as 22 year old. r He's capable of putting up a .330-.345 in the majors, yes he hits for very little power but combine his on base skills with defence there's no question who the better player is between Thole and JP. The fact that Thole is toiling in the minors is unforgivable on part of AA and the rest of the Jays front office.



I mean what's the contention here given that JP is actually having a pretty terrible year outside of that whacky HR/FB% that will almost certainly go down. I guess we can applaud him for beating out Jeff Keppinger for baseball's lowest walk rate and K/BB rate. Its hilarious how people are so seduced by a couple of fluky homeruns to the point where we can ignore entire careers, like Thole's history of getting on base or JP's career .274 OBP and that unspeakably awful 21-1 K to BB ratio in 32 games so far.

[Santoki]

We're not developing Thole, so him playing 2 out of every 5 days is more than enough playing time. Blanco hasn't tangibly done anything better in Dickey starts and gives you nothing offensively. I really don't see the downside at all. He's an upgrade to Blanco and when JP needs a rest, is a better option than Blanco.

[There There]

lol... dominated A ball kiddies as a 22 year old. RIght.

There is nine months difference between, and Arencibia only spent half a year in Dunedin and then the other half in NH, putting up equally impressive numbers while Thole toiled away against "A ball kiddies".

I would suggest that Arencibia's ability to crush a baseball carries over better to major league competition then Thole's ability to exploit kids who can't find the strike zone, and the numbers so far suggest as much

Thole in a 1026 major league plate appearances

OBP: .331
SLG: .333
OPS: .664
ISO: .072
wOBA: .295
wRC+: 85

Arencibia in 1015 major league plate apperances

OBP: .274
SLG: .446
OPS: .721
ISO: .221
wOBA: .309
wRC+: 92

[Santoki]

We're not comparing JP and Thole. We're comparing Thole and Blanco. What value is Blanco providing right now that Thole couldn't? And if he's as unspectacular as you suggest, then who cares if he only plays 2 out of 5 days. What does he need regular at-bats for? You add better defense 1 out of 5 days and keep JP's bat in the lineup.

[Avenger]

The A ball kiddies part was not a jab at Arencibia, i know he didn't dominate A ball kiddies as a 22 year old, i just meant to reinforce the original point that Thole is not some AAAA non prospect that dominated opposing pitchers that were considerably younger than him. His road to the majors is similar to Arencibia and most other legitimate prospects.

There's no doubt that Thole's career numbers in the majors are less than impressive but 2012 seems like such an obvious outlier to me, it stands out like compared to his other seasons as a pro while JP is almost absurdly consistent from year to year. JP is what he is, he's got decent power but he's terrible at literally every other facet of the game. Thole has little power but he can bring a lot more to the table, he's a better bet moving forward.

[There There]

JP doesn't just have decent power... especially for a catcher, it is tremendous power. As in having the ability to be one of the top slugging catchers in all of baseball.
He has shown that at every level.

I'm not suggesting that Thole has no value either.
Obviously his ability to get on base carries some value, and it's still possible that he develops some kind of extra base ability to go along with it.

But I completely get why the team management sees more offensive upside in Arencibia.

And as long as they are going with Arencibia as their everyday guy, and Thole still has options, I'd rather see Thole get consistent playing time to stay game ready in the event that Arencibia goes down, rather than play the Blanco role which is the rallying cry around here.

Because the difference between Thole and Blanco, as staggering as it may look, is almost insignificant when you consider the limited number of at bats.

[Santoki]

JP doesn't just have decent power... especially for a catcher, it is tremendous power. As in having the ability to be one of the top slugging catchers in all of baseball.
He has shown that at every level.

I'm not suggesting that Thole has no value either.
Obviously his ability to get on base carries some value, and it's still possible that he develops some kind of extra base ability to go along with it.

But I completely get why the team management sees more offensive upside in Arencibia.

And as long as they are going with Arencibia as their everyday guy, and Thole still has options, I'd rather see Thole get consistent playing time to stay game ready in the event that Arencibia goes down, rather than play the Blanco role which is the rallying cry around here.

Because the difference between Thole and Blanco, as staggering as it may look, is almost insignificant when you consider the limited number of at bats.

At this point in what could be a lost season, every little bit counts from here on in.

[Lateral Quicks]

Probably until Thole starts hitting .200 in AAA. Apparently we can't promote guys that are hitting well.

Blanco should never have made the roster.
- Captain Obvious

[There There]

At this point in what could be a lost season, every little bit counts from here on in.

Except if it is bad enough now that it could be a lost season, then Thole is not going to be the difference maker.

The exact opposite is actually true; if this team was neck and neck battling with everyone else, then you might have more of a case that those limited plate appearances take on larger importance.

Right now with a 12-21 record, it's laughable to suggest that Thole over Blanco makes any tangible difference.

Probably until Thole starts hitting .200 in AAA. Apparently we can't promote guys that are hitting well.

Blanco should never have made the roster.
- Captain Obvious

Fine, your opinion.
But he did make the roster.
And he is providing exactly what was expected.

So why would you release him when he is giving you what you expected. No one expected Blanco to hit, at all.
They expected him to catch Dickey, which he has very well.

edit... the other thing to add, did Captain Obvious consider that it is very likely that Dickey pushed for Blanco over Thole ? If you're going with a personal catcher, shouldn't it be the one that Dickey actually feels more comfortable with ?

His statement that Blanco could catch him with chop sticks certainly gives credence to the fact that Dickey simply prefers Blanco.

Now, if last night was actually a sign that the Jays recognize Arencibia's limitations in calling the game and framing pitches, and feel that Buehrle would also benefit from not having Arencibia behind the plate, then Thole over Blanco starts gaining more traction, because Blanco starting 40% of the games is far too much to be giving away at the plate.

Until then though, I have no problem with Dickey deciding who he actually wants as his personal catcher, as long as he is just Dickey's personal catcher.

[Lateral Quicks]

At this point in what could be a lost season, every little bit counts from here on in.

Except if it is bad enough now that it could be a lost season, then Thole is not going to be the difference maker.

The exact opposite is actually true; if this team was neck and neck battling with everyone else, then you might have more of a case that those limited plate appearances take on larger importance.

Right now with a 12-21 record, it's laughable to suggest that Thole over Blanco makes any tangible difference.

Probably until Thole starts hitting .200 in AAA. Apparently we can't promote guys that are hitting well.

Blanco should never have made the roster.
- Captain Obvious

Fine, your opinion.
But he did make the roster.
And he is providing exactly what was expected.

So why would you release him when he is giving you what you expected. No one expected Blanco to hit, at all.
They expected him to catch Dickey, which he has very well.

edit... the other thing to add, did Captain Obvious consider that it is very likely that Dickey pushed for Blanco over Thole ? If you're going with a personal catcher, shouldn't it be the one that Dickey actually feels more comfortable with ?

His statement that Blanco could catch him with chop sticks certainly gives credence to the fact that Dickey simply prefers Blanco.

Now, if last night was actually a sign that the Jays recognize Arencibia's limitations in calling the game and framing pitches, and feel that Buehrle would also benefit from not having Arencibia behind the plate, then Thole over Blanco starts gaining more traction, because Blanco starting 40% of the games is far too much to be giving away at the plate.

Until then though, I have no problem with Dickey deciding who he actually wants as his personal catcher, as long as he is just Dickey's personal catcher.

So you're positing that the horrible trade trade was even worse in that we're forced to play a sub-replacement level catcher once or twice a week as a direct result? Dickey had his career year without Blanco. Blanco is obviously no difference maker. Add to that the small sample size this year where Dickey has regressed terribly throwing to Blanco.

Blanco probably wouldn't even make a AAA team right now. To have him on the roster instead of a proven capable catcher - left-handed to boot - toiling away in AAA is a really, really bad decision.