2012-13 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[Mutnt]

Also, regarding Kobe, I think he should be getting more serious consideration for being in the top 5 given how underwhelmingly his competition (Harden/Melo/Wade) have been performing. This is less of a full ranking and more of a "who is #4/5?" lol. The way I see it now the 4/5 can go to Curry/Parker/Duncan/Kobe followed by Wade/Melo/Noah/Gasol.

No, Kobe has no case over Curry & both Parker and Duncan at this point.

[therealbig3]

I'll be honest, if M. Gasol is getting a mention...why not D-Will? He was a monster in the 2nd half of the season, and he played pretty well against a really good defensive team in the 1st round.

I'm not sure why Melo should definitely go over him either.

D-Will's advanced numbers this year were about as good as they ever were.

[Doctor MJ]

Curry keeps bringing it. It's funny, I've been a full fledged member of the "Melo is tremendously overrated club" for so long but this new role changed everything and I've been expecting him to be in my Top 5 with young guys like Curry being threats to get there in future years.

Right now though Curry is clearly looking better, and my guess is that by finals end it will be tough for both Curry & Melo to make my top 5.

[CBA]

So I know whether I'm being overly influenced by a couple games, I'll put down an early top5.

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Harden
5. Wade

[E-Balla]

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Curry/Paul
4. Paul/Curry
5. Melo

HM: Duncan/TP, and Marc

[ronnymac2]

As of right now, I've got LeBron/KD/Paul in the first three spots. Curry, Harden, Melo, Wade, and maybe Deron Williams are on my mind for the last two spots.

No Lakers or Spurs or Westbrooks...

[MeloMIracle]

1. Lebron
2. Melo
3. Durant
4. Curry
5. CP3

Melo and Durant are basically interchangeable, Durant may be a better overall player but Melo is the best clutch player since Prime Kobe.

[TheChosen618]

1. Lebron
2. Melo
3. Durant
4. Curry
5. CP3

Melo and Durant are basically interchangeable, Durant may be a better overall player but Melo is the best clutch player since Prime Kobe.

I'd like you to even try to argue Melo being better than Durant.

And what stats actually show that Melo is the best clutch player? I'm pretty sure all the clutch stats say that Lebron and Durant are the two best at it.

Melo should be the best scorer especially in the clutch with all the moves he has in his scoring arsenal, but he isn't. I never really understood why he would alawys settle for jump shots but I realized he did it beacuse he's not a good finisher around the rim and that his jump shot is actually more reliable.

[Dr Positivity]

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Paul
4. Marc Gasol
5. Curry

Would've had Harden 5th for the regular season but Curry has clearly outplayed him in the PS.

[MeloMIracle]

1. Lebron
2. Melo
3. Durant
4. Curry
5. CP3

Melo and Durant are basically interchangeable, Durant may be a better overall player but Melo is the best clutch player since Prime Kobe.

I'd like you to even try to argue Melo being better than Durant.

And what stats actually show that Melo is the best clutch player? I'm pretty sure all the clutch stats say that Lebron and Durant are the two best at it.

Melo should be the best scorer especially in the clutch with all the moves he has in his scoring arsenal, but he isn't. I never really understood why he would alawys settle for jump shots but I realized he did it beacuse he's not a good finisher around the rim and that his jump shot is actually more reliable.

If stats are all you care about then here ya go

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/game-winnin ... s-1706442/

However, I like to actually watch games and determine who I think is better by watching the game not the box score. There is so much more to this game than simple numbers.....

[TheChosen618]

If stats are all you care about then here ya go

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/game-winnin ... s-1706442/

However, I like to actually watch games and determine who I think is better by watching the game not the box score. There is so much more to this game than simple numbers.....

That's not a legitimate source, also, game winning/last-second shots are not the only clutch baskets. Shots that are made in the final minutes of the game in a tight game are also clutch shots and Melo is not better than either Durant or Lebron at that. Every statistic proves this.

You like to watch games and not look at stats, because no stat actually backs up Melo being as great as you would like to think he is. If the stats actually backed up what you wanted, you would be using these stats like no tomorrow.

[MeloMIracle]

If stats are all you care about then here ya go

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/game-winnin ... s-1706442/

However, I like to actually watch games and determine who I think is better by watching the game not the box score. There is so much more to this game than simple numbers.....

That's not a legitimate source, also, game winning/last-second shots are not the only clutch baskets. Shots that are made in the final minutes of the game in a tight game are also clutch shots and Melo is not better than either Durant or Lebron at that. Every statistic proves this.

You like to watch games and not look at stats, because no stat actually backs up Melo being as great as you would like to think he is. If the stats actually backed up what you wanted, you would be using these stats like no tomorrow.

LOL game winning/tying shots may not be the only clutch stat you are right, but it obviously shows who is better in the clutch if you do not agree then please explain why??

[TheChosen618]

LOL game winning/tying shots may not be the only clutch stat you are right, but it obviously shows who is better in the clutch if you do not agree then please explain why??

Because there are plenty of other ways to make clutch shots besides game winning shots, such as making shots in the final minutes of the game when the game is tight. In that case, Melo is clearly behind Durant and Lebron and by a lot. There were probably plenty of games where Lebron and Durant didn't need to make a game winning shot because they already won the game for their team by making a lot of shots in the last 5 minutes opposed to just the last possession.

I'm not saying the stat you showed doesn't count and has no value, but that is not the end all be all to determine clutch scoring.

[Sinant]

Even if Melo was the best clutch player in the league (which he isn't), it's silly to try to use that advantage as if it somehow overrides everything else that Durant does better.

They're not close enough as players where the tiebreaker becomes "Who do you want to take the last shot in a 2 point game"

[B_Creamy]

LOL game winning/tying shots may not be the only clutch stat you are right, but it obviously shows who is better in the clutch if you do not agree then please explain why??

This is a completely cherry picked stat. Not to mention the fact that it records these shots over a career, and not the season which this project is discussing.

[fatal9]

Thoughts on Melo?

Well to me, the most noticeable improvement in Melo's game this year has been his jump shooting and off ball play. It's not like he's coming off screens and abandoning iso play (because he's not), but in general he has made spot up shooting a larger part of his game than it was in the past. It has made him a bit easier to play with because a larger percentage of his shots are coming from "in the flow" opportunities (though again, he's still very reliant on isos for his scoring). So this has been his best jump shooting year since he's been in the league, but other than that the same old problems mire his game. Lazy team defense, doesn't read defenses at the level of true offensive superstars, takes bad shots while not creating enough offense for teammates, very inconsistent scoring efficiency game to game. Knicks obviously have had success in the regular season with the strategy of spacing the floor around his scoring, but I don't really have that much faith in their offensive strategy holding up in the playoffs (been pretty brutal so far for them, fortunately they faced a very offensively challenged team lacking depth in first round). I will be surprised if Knicks win this series, because I think Pacers matchup with them really well defensively, and Melo just hasn't shown the type of talent needed to solve these kind of defensive teams. Obviously if Knicks win this series, then maybe I would consider reevaluating my opinion on him, which could happen because I also thought Boston would give them a tougher battle than they did (though ultimately Boston's lack of depth was a huge problem, a couple of solid bench players might have been the difference in that series).

But basically for me to put Melo in the top 5, I would need to be convinced that you can design a championship caliber offense around him meaning that a) it's reliable over a multiple round playoff run and b) Melo is clearly the primary anchor of that offense. Based on both history and his tendencies as a player, we have yet to see that happen, so I'll wait on elevating him up to top 5 until he proves me wrong.

[MeloMIracle]

LOL game winning/tying shots may not be the only clutch stat you are right, but it obviously shows who is better in the clutch if you do not agree then please explain why??

This is a completely cherry picked stat. Not to mention the fact that it records these shots over a career, and not the season which this project is discussing.

Oh ok so then if we are not even considering previous years performance as far as this goes then Wade and Duncan should not even be smelling top 5, stop with the double standards.

[MeloMIracle]

Thoughts on Melo?

Well to me, the most noticeable improvement in Melo's game this year has been his jump shooting and off ball play. It's not like he's coming off screens and abandoning iso play (because he's not), but in general he has made spot up shooting a larger part of his game than it was in the past. It has made him a bit easier to play with because a larger percentage of his shots are coming from "in the flow" opportunities (though again, he's still very reliant on isos for his scoring). So this has been his best jump shooting year since he's been in the league, but other than that the same old problems mire his game. Lazy team defense, doesn't read defenses at the level of true offensive superstars, takes bad shots while not creating enough offense for teammates, very inconsistent scoring efficiency game to game. Knicks obviously have had success in the regular season with the strategy of spacing the floor around his scoring, but I don't really have that much faith in their offensive strategy holding up in the playoffs (been pretty brutal so far for them, fortunately they faced a very offensively challenged team lacking depth in first round). I will be surprised if Knicks win this series, because I think Pacers matchup with them really well defensively, and Melo just hasn't shown the type of talent needed to solve these kind of defensive teams. Obviously if Knicks win this series, then maybe I would consider reevaluating my opinion on him, which could happen because I also thought Boston would give them a tougher battle than they did (though ultimately Boston's lack of depth was a huge problem, a couple of solid bench players might have been the difference in that series).

But basically for me to put Melo in the top 5, I would need to be convinced that you can design a championship caliber offense around him meaning that a) it's reliable over a multiple round playoff run and b) Melo is clearly the primary anchor of that offense. Based on both history and his tendencies as a player, we have yet to see that happen, so I'll wait on elevating him up to top 5 until he proves me wrong.

Melo has definitely proven himself in the postseason before
2010- 31 ppg 8.5 rpg 3.3 apg 46% fg

2009- 27 ppg 5 rpg 4.1 apg 45 % fg

2007- 27ppg 8 rpg 1.2 apg 48 % fg

What has history shown you? Not getting far in the playoffs? In that case Paul shouldn't be so high either.

[Doctor MJ]

My lord the West is in chaos.

[Sinant]

My lord the West is in chaos.

Which makes the Westbrook thing so much more tragic. Imagine if OKC was at full strength. Hell of a playoffs.