Reggie Jackson - long term bench solution?

[sonictecture]

Going to the Martin vs Lamb thing. Its unreasonable to expect a rookie to be better than a 10 year vet. We don't know how he is going to play in games simply because he hasn't gotten any meaningful playing time. Theres just so much development that can take place during the season without playing time. During the season there really isn't that much practicing.

I don't disagree, but Presti owes it to Durant and Westbrook to ensure the team around them increases the chances of winning from year to year. Stepping back or staying the near the same is a recipe to lose Durant and Westbrook when they are free agents.

Perhaps Jackson is a key to helping Lamb develop without the team suffering as a whole?

The reason to let Martin walk is the same reason Harden got traded. The luxury tax. Its that plain and simple. The thunder are at $66,119,439 in salaries for 10 players going into next season. That doesn't include the 2 first round picks. So it'll be roughly 69 mil counting them. The luxury tax line is probably going to be around $72 mill. If Martin is signed for more than one year then repeat tax comes into play also. So if the owners don't want to pay the tax then there is no way to resign Martin.

True but take Martin's projected salary and minus the rookie salary of Lamb and perhaps Martin can be signed without paying the luxury tax. Draft foreign players and leave them in Europe another year to avoid paying additional non-rotation salaries.

If it was up to me and the owners agreed to pay the tax. I'd offer Martin 4 year 28 million. Then try to trade Lamb and the Okc pick for either a player like Mirotic that chicago owns the rights for or just Lamb back into this draft to draft high upside center. As well as drafting a center with the 12th pick. Since bigs are hard to judge basically play the odds. Draft 2, hoping at least one pans out. This draft class has a lot of high upside true centers. It'd keep the salary the same or maybe ~2 mill lower depending on whether one of the picks develop in Europe. Let the centers develop while Perk plays out his contract. At that point hopefully one can fill his role. Doing all that would put the Thunder about $2-5 million over the luxury cap though. If they kept both picks in Europe for a year, may actually be able to stay under the luxury line completely.

If I was Presti I wouldn't ask my owners to pay the tax for Martin.

I'm not a fan of the Lamb to Chicago scenario.

The more I study the center prospects in this draft the more non-true centers I see. There are a lot of guys without above average NBA athleticism and below average skill levels. Guys who can't hold position or will prefer to become perimeter role players. The common view is that OKC needs to take a center prospect in this draft and I don't agree.

[comingbacktousa]

Jackson could be the different maker. I will admit i was wrong about how effective he would be but I still want to wait a few more games before being sold on him. Him replacing Martin and the team not still suffering is going to be difficult due to how efficient Martin is.

Mirotic is one of the best if not the best foreign rights held player. He likely would have been a top 10 pick that year had he not just signed a deal there. He can stretch the floor while still being a good rebounder.

Len, Dieng, Gobert, Adams, and Whitley are all true centers.

They're paying for a title contender not just Martin.

[sonictecture]

Jackson could be the different maker. I will admit i was wrong about how effective he would be but I still want to wait a few more games before being sold on him. Him replacing Martin and the team not still suffering is going to be difficult due to how efficient Martin is.

Martin has been efficient overall but inconsistent, so the bar isn't quite as high as when Harden was sixth man of the year. One thing that is becoming clear is when Presti traded Harden his goal was to ensure no one player had to fill his shoes. The development of Jackson would seem to help either Martin or Lamb or whomever comes off the bench next season.

Mirotic is one of the best if not the best foreign rights held player. He likely would have been a top 10 pick that year had he not just signed a deal there. He can stretch the floor while still being a good rebounder.

Is he like any player that Presti has ever drafted? Mirotic has some athletic limitations that Presti historically has avoided in players and isn't known as a defensive player. I hesitate to put limits on the type of player Presti would draft, but there is a record at this point.

Len, Dieng, Gobert, Adams, and Whitley are all true centers.

I disagree. Len is a true center, but unfortunately he just suffered one of historically brightest red flag injuries for a big man. Len suffered this injury not after playing 30 mpg on an 82 game NBA schedule but at the end of a relatively light College schedule or during a workout. He's projected to be out 4-6 months which means he will miss summer training and probably a training camp.

Dieng is more of a power forward than center in the NBA. He lacks the size and strength to play center for OKC. I'm not as concerned about his age as some, but I don't see a guy is capable of moving players out of the paint and I'm not enamored with his rebounding potential.

Gobert could become a true center, but currently does not weigh enough to play the position. He has a good frame and In four to five years he may fill out physically and be considered a true center. How many more center prospects will Presti have drafted or signed in the time it will take a Gobert or Adams to develop?

Adams is probably the most unskilled and least experienced players in the draft at any position. Currently I project him as an athletic PF/C combo, much like Miles Plumlee of last years draft.

Whitley does not have the lower base strength to play center for the Thunder. In the OKC scheme the center has to be able to deny low post position and Whitley lacks the necessary strength and has a build that may not allow him ever to acquire such strength. Whitley is more of a weak side defender, which in the OKC scheme is occupied by the power forward position.

They're paying for a title contender not just Martin.

I don't think Martin has proven he is the difference between title contender and non-title contender. If Martin is the choice then reduce salary elsewhere to remain under the tax is my view.

[comingbacktousa]

Martin has been efficient overall but inconsistent, so the bar isn't quite as high as when Harden was sixth man of the year. One thing that is becoming clear is when Presti traded Harden his goal was to ensure no one player had to fill his shoes. The development of Jackson would seem to help either Martin or Lamb or whomever comes off the bench next season.

As a win now team, doesn't it make more sense to go with the proven player? Martin is 5th in career ts% for all active players, most of those years he was a high volume scorer. His floor spacing is big with both pgs not being great shooters. If its between him and signing someone else, it makes sense to resign him. Lamb being the x factor, because if he's ready then he obviously makes the most sense. Again, we don't know how good Lamb is or isn't.

Is he like any player that Presti has ever drafted? Mirotic has some athletic limitations that Presti historically has avoided in players and isn't known as a defensive player. I hesitate to put limits on the type of player Presti would draft, but there is a record at this point.

Presti is a good gm but by no means is he perfect, but I get your point. But with bigs, outside of Ibaka he has done pretty badly. To me Mirotic is a lower risk than any big in this draft really. Hes playing on one of the best teams in Europe and producing at a high level. He's very comparable to Ryan Anderson to me. With his low salary and relatively low risk, it makes sense to make a trade for him. Especially if the goal is to cut immediate salary.

I've said that all the (true) centers in his draft are raw. Most centers in the league are a bit tweeners, but all those guys if they develop are more centers than pfs. Outside of Gobert, none of them are too undersized. Whitley being the smallest but the most ready, and best defender currently. Adams and Len are really the only ones I see every being able to develop into much of an offensive threat. Adams is a pretty good athlete but with legit center size. The rest of Perkin's contract is enough time for them to develop into rotational players if they are ever going to be. Thats plenty of time for Gobert to add strength, Adams to polish his game etc.

[Thunderhead]

What GM hits on his bigs ?

Appears to me, that there's a large element of good fortune in finding bigs.

[sonictecture]

What GM hits on his bigs ?

Appears to me, that there's a large element of good fortune in finding bigs.

This type of argument suggest that other teams don't have centers that are superior to Perkins and that simply isn't true. Plenty of GM's have found superior big men.

[bondom34]

I think its most likely that C is the position drafted with the Toronto pick, but there are a few others I kind of like. 3 I kind of like (FA or trade) would be a deal for Marcin Gortat, or signing DeJuan Blair or JJ Hickson. With Hickson it would obviously be a small ball lineup, but I think it could be good, and Blair is young and has been good when given time.

[comingbacktousa]

What GM hits on his bigs ?

Appears to me, that there's a large element of good fortune in finding bigs.

Dumars seems to be doing pretty good. Buford/Pop aren't bad either.

There is an element of good fortune but Presti has been flat out bad in that department. His picks have been bad as well as giving Perkins an extension before even seeing how he plays with the team.

[SantaMenon]

What GM hits on his bigs ?

Appears to me, that there's a large element of good fortune in finding bigs.

Dumars seems to be doing pretty good. Buford/Pop aren't bad either.

There is an element of good fortune but Presti has been flat out bad in that department. His picks have been bad as well as giving Perkins an extension before even seeing how he plays with the team.

Yeah hindsight is a wonderful thing. Perkins was pretty good coming out of Boston, there was no reason to believe he would regress so much and have injury issues.

The only real bust of Presti's reign is Cole Aldrich. Every GM is allowed a bust here and there. Presti has still been amazing with his other draft picks, even if he traded them, WB/Harden/Green/Bledsoe/Jackson/PJ3/Ibaka etc.

[sonictecture]

[quote="SantaMenon"Yeah hindsight is a wonderful thing. Perkins was pretty good coming out of Boston, there was no reason to believe he would regress so much and have injury issues.

The only real bust of Presti's reign is Cole Aldrich. Every GM is allowed a bust here and there. Presti has still been amazing with his other draft picks, even if he traded them, WB/Harden/Green/Bledsoe/Jackson/PJ3/Ibaka etc.[/quote]
Perkins was coming off ACL surgery from the previous season playoffs and hadn't played at all during the season he was traded by Boston. Perkins didn't play for a couple of week after joining the Thunder. Perkins really dedicated himself to changing his body and did so in offseason workouts and a change of diet. Perkins has done all he can to improve his quickness and lift. Some players don't ever fully recover from a major knee injury. Perkins is currently stuck in this kind of no man's land. He has poor foot speed and lift and isn't quite as big and strong to bull doze opposing players out of the paint.

Presti made a calculated gamble on Perkins and it hasn't quite worked out. There is no shame in trying to improve the position.

[comingbacktousa]

What GM hits on his bigs ?

Appears to me, that there's a large element of good fortune in finding bigs.

Dumars seems to be doing pretty good. Buford/Pop aren't bad either.

There is an element of good fortune but Presti has been flat out bad in that department. His picks have been bad as well as giving Perkins an extension before even seeing how he plays with the team.

Yeah hindsight is a wonderful thing. Perkins was pretty good coming out of Boston, there was no reason to believe he would regress so much and have injury issues.

The only real bust of Presti's reign is Cole Aldrich. Every GM is allowed a bust here and there. Presti has still been amazing with his other draft picks, even if he traded them, WB/Harden/Green/Bledsoe/Jackson/PJ3/Ibaka etc.

Highsight or not. He took a risk and it didn't really work out. Perkins wasn't the type of player where he needed to be resigned immediately no matter what. He had a chance to feel him out but didn't, and extended an offer anyways.

Not sure how you can include Bledsoe, wasn't his rights traded on draft night itself? That usually means, the team selecting at that position selects the player agreed upon by both teams, when the trade is proposed.

Also giving Presti credit for PJ3 is a bit premature. On paper its a great pick, due to his upside but nothing he has done really warrants giving Presti props.

[SantaMenon]

Dumars seems to be doing pretty good. Buford/Pop aren't bad either.

There is an element of good fortune but Presti has been flat out bad in that department. His picks have been bad as well as giving Perkins an extension before even seeing how he plays with the team.

Yeah hindsight is a wonderful thing. Perkins was pretty good coming out of Boston, there was no reason to believe he would regress so much and have injury issues.

The only real bust of Presti's reign is Cole Aldrich. Every GM is allowed a bust here and there. Presti has still been amazing with his other draft picks, even if he traded them, WB/Harden/Green/Bledsoe/Jackson/PJ3/Ibaka etc.

Highsight or not. He took a risk and it didn't really work out. Perkins wasn't the type of player where he needed to be resigned immediately no matter what. He had a chance to feel him out but didn't, and extended an offer anyways.

Not sure how you can include Bledsoe, wasn't his rights traded on draft night itself? That usually means, the team selecting at that position selects the player agreed upon by both teams, when the trade is proposed.

Also giving Presti credit for PJ3 is a bit premature. On paper its a great pick, due to his upside but nothing he has done really warrants giving Presti props.

I still don't think the Perk move was as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Overpaid, yes, no doubt. But OKC did need a veteran presence with championship experience, it was far too young a team/inexperience.

Fair doos on Bledsoe, didn't really think about that.

I give Presti credit for PJ3 because its a great pick at #28. He fell into our laps a little but it was a great risk vs reward scenario that if it works out, would be another steal at the end of the draft like Reggie/Ibaka were. Pj3 is only in his first season, next season will show what hes really like because thats the Thunder way. Rookie season is always a D-League season with us.

[comingbacktousa]

We all saw that Jackson can play. I'll admit that he was better than I thought. What do you think the future holds in store for Jackson? It looks like OKC could end up in the same situation LAC is in with Bledsoe.

[Devilanche]

Look to trade him in the next draft.