Doctor MJ wrote:
I don't know if you remember, but Duncan was thought of as pretty soft before he won enough titles that people didn't feel comfortable sticking with the narrative.
I remember in 2005 when Duncan was struggling like crazy from the free throw line there was a round "Tim Duncan should get down on his knees and worship Robert Horry for carrying him to the title". It is an absolute given that if the Spurs hadn't won titles, Duncan would have been considered by many to be an extreme choker and would attribute his lack of rings to his a character flaw.
As crazy as that narrative was, and as wrongheaded as that alternate reality narrative would have been, that's about as misguided as it is for people to look at Duncan as some kind of unassailable clutch, leader. Dude has struggled in the clutch, and in 2004 as the best player on the Olympics team his leadership was completely non-existent in the face of bigger personalities.
In the end what makes for a real leader is someone who can grab hold of others and propel them to greatness. That's not what Duncan is. What he is someone who will work hard and not complain even if asked to sacrifice, which is a phenomenal thing to have when you're a superstar talent - but it's called being a good soldier, or a follower. Again, that's not an insult. I'd much rather build my franchise around Duncan than most guys with big personalities even if they have comparable talent, but no one should mistake it for innate charisma, and no one should be trying to find leadership reasons for explaining why Duncan is more successful than Garnett.
From what I remember just about every player was considered soft compared to the past eras, and it was David Robinson that carried the label for the Spurs. There was even a SI Cover featuring the headline "Who's Soft Now?" after the 99 Championship which demonstrates the narrative point. And the Olympics debacle did no one's legacy any favors (except for Argentina and Manu specifically). Duncan also caught some flack when the Spurs sat him out of the playoffs after suffering an injury
Back to the soft stuff, Timmy has been more of a finesse than power guy which when we go back to the 00's reminds me of threads claiming Duncan was more of a C than PF which is a tangent...Anyway Bill Simmons and Robert Horry compared the finesse/power ratios of players like Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan and Duncan ranked last in the power department although Simmons was quick to point out that a mid 00's Duncan, like the one you described, was a different and more worn down player than his physical prime. Which brings me to another tangent: I wonder how KG's durability would have been affected if he had a playoffs streak like the Spurs (but on the other hand KG would have had better minutes management and organization)
I disagree that there was a perception that Duncan struggles in the clutch or at the least you can point to big shots he's made, although unfortunately some have been matched by other big shots like Fisher's .4. From his first rookie game in the playoffs he made his mark as a go-to scorer, and would go on to earn respect from peers if Ron Artest's quotes about Duncan being a "true gangster" is of any indication. Duncan's playoffs numbers at the Lakers home court is also excellent for what it's worth considering they were elite most of the time. Here is a clip from Duncan's first rookie game:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB7XD8km7L0[/youtube]
In any case Duncan's got the playoffs stats, moments, and moves that points towards a significant edge vs KG when it comes to being a go-to scorer.
As for KG's leadership don't get me wrong I've said it's excellent and outstanding in its own right. I prefer Duncan's leadership because of his actions on and off the court. Duncan is a 4 year college graduate and to me sees the big picture better. Duncan generally takes less money, is less trouble, trains players in the offseason, makes big shots at tough times, and imo KG's trashtalking ways can backfire.
NO-KG-AI wrote:KG has had a lot of problems with guys who get lazy(go look up Patrick O'Bryant). Demanding accountability isn't actually a bad thing.
Tim Duncan has never had to do that, because Pop does it for him.
Duncan demands accountability himself as well. However whatever problems Duncan may or may not have with subpar teammates off the court is generally kept under wraps.
In any case for a recent example of Duncan's leadership, we saw an animated Duncan chew out Kawhi Leonard in the 2nd quarter @ GSW, and throughout the game talk and get Kawhi's head into the action and afterwards laugh at it all. Pics from Spurstalk:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214039And for hell of it here's just an awesome GIF after hitting a clutch shot
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