Trade question from a Magic fans...

[TheMagicOne]

I have no idea what your offseason plans are...BUT... I wanted to know if you want max salary cap space?

For example we have 3 TPE and could do the following trade.

Orlando trades its 3 TPE's to Dallas
Dallas trades Carter, Marion, Cunningham and their 2013 draft pick.

Gives you all t he cap space humanly possible given your situation and we use our TPE's and net a pick and Cunningham.

What do you Maverick fans think?

BTW we have no interest in keeping Carter or Marion so the object for us is the pick and Cunningham.

[2011Champs]

I dont care about Cunningham at all, he could be traded for a couple DisneyWorld tickets.

[clkdtm32]

I have no idea what your offseason plans are...BUT... I wanted to know if you want max salary cap space?

For example we have 3 TPE and could do the following trade.

Orlando trades its 3 TPE's to Dallas
Dallas trades Carter, Marion, Cunningham and their 2013 draft pick.

Gives you all t he cap space humanly possible given your situation and we use our TPE's and net a pick and Cunningham.

What do you Maverick fans think?

BTW we have no interest in keeping Carter or Marion so the object for us is the pick and Cunningham.

This is good for VC. After Magic buyout his contract, he can go to contender. Sweet!!!

[TheMagicOne]

So it's a good trade or not?

[2011Champs]

So it's a good trade or not?

Its only a good trade if Dallas can't free up cap space elsewhere without giving up the draft pick.

[TheMagicOne]

So it's a good trade or not?

Its only a good trade if Dallas can't free up cap space elsewhere without giving up the draft pick.

FYI we are the ONLY team in the entire NBA with a TPE large enough to to take Marion, which also means we are the only team to take all your bad contracts at one time... So yep it would cost you at least a pick.

[JES12]

All three of those assets have positive value. We would be the team getting the picks if picks are involved. And there are too many teams with cap space higher than Marion's salary, so that logic is flawed.

1) Atlanta: About $40 mil of cap space. If Josh leaves, Marion is a nice replacement.
2) Charlotte: About $18 mil of cap space and they are not a prime free agent destination, so amnesty and trade is where they will fill the space.
3) Cleveland: About $26 million
4) Detroit: About $30 million
5) Houston: About $28 million
6) Milwaukee: About $18 million
7) Minnesota: About $11 million
8) New Orleans: About $24 million
9) Your Orlando Magic: Cap space or TPE
10) Philadelphia: About $12 million
11) Phoenix: About $12 million
12) Portland: About $14 million
13) Sacramento: About $18 Million
14) San Antonio: About $20 million
15) Utah About $32 million

And, of course, teams 16 and 17 are the teams who we could S&T for Paul or Dwight.

That makes 17 of the 29 teams in the NBA not named the Mavericks who have the ABILITY to take on that entire package without us taking back any salary besides S&T targets. You could even through Denver in there if Iggy is a S&T target.

Other teams like Boston may like Marion and Carter because they are 2014 expiring's (in a KG, Bass, Lee, Green, Terry type 3-way).

Now obviously, there are free agents and rookie contracts that may be more appealing than Marion or Carter, but let's not act like Orlando is offering up some service so rare that we have to add positive value to positive value to make a deal.

[DBoys]

The primary issue is whether or not the Mavs end up needing more cap space than they already have. That can't be answered until the Mavs get a chance to talk to some of their free agent targets and see how much (if any) cap room they'll be spending. In addition, as JES said, this summer there will be a lot of teams with cap room and able to take a desirable player for nothing, if the Mavs want to give some away. They certainly don't all need to go to the same team.

[crucifixx]

So it's a good trade or not?

Its only a good trade if Dallas can't free up cap space elsewhere without giving up the draft pick.

FYI we are the ONLY team in the entire NBA with a TPE large enough to to take Marion, which also means we are the only team to take all your bad contracts at one time... So yep it would cost you at least a pick.

You assume we can only trade Marion for TPE. You do realize we can trade Marion to any team that has cap space and get TPE back? And we don't have any bad contracts. Marion is the biggest contract we have after Dirk and I wouldn't even call him a bad contract. Read JES12's post above.

[JES12]

You assume we can only trade Marion for TPE. You do realize we can trade Marion to any team that has cap space and get TPE back? And we don't have any bad contracts. Marion is the biggest contract we have after Dirk and I wouldn't even call him a bad contract. Read JES12's post above.

In addition to this, teams that have no cap room that are not luxury tax teams can trade a player making $6.2 million for Marion if we are looking to fill a position other than Marion's. Basically, freeing up $3.1 mil of cap just from a normal trade if that suits our needs. (i.e, a team I did not mention on my previous post, Memphis could trade us Marion for Prince and then absorbing Carter and Cunningham with their $6.2 mil TPE for a total 1st year savings of $6.4 million).

The primary issue is whether or not the Mavs end up needing more cap space than they already have. That can't be answered until the Mavs get a chance to talk to some of their free agent targets and see how much (if any) cap room they'll be spending.

Great point. I feel if we can't land CP3 or Dwight, we may end up filling the roster with 2014 expirings (Pau Gasol, Paul Pierce, Danny Granger, etc.) and regroup when Dirk, Marion and Carter all expire. In that essence, we then become another on of those teams with cap space willing to absorb contracts for other teams, hence making the TPE less of a bargaining chip.

[TheMagicOne]

All three of those assets have positive value. We would be the team getting the picks if picks are involved. And there are too many teams with cap space higher than Marion's salary, so that logic is flawed.

1) Atlanta: About $40 mil of cap space. If Josh leaves, Marion is a nice replacement.
2) Charlotte: About $18 mil of cap space and they are not a prime free agent destination, so amnesty and trade is where they will fill the space.
3) Cleveland: About $26 million
4) Detroit: About $30 million
5) Houston: About $28 million
6) Milwaukee: About $18 million
7) Minnesota: About $11 million
8) New Orleans: About $24 million
9) Your Orlando Magic: Cap space or TPE
10) Philadelphia: About $12 million
11) Phoenix: About $12 million
12) Portland: About $14 million
13) Sacramento: About $18 Million
14) San Antonio: About $20 million
15) Utah About $32 million

And, of course, teams 16 and 17 are the teams who we could S&T for Paul or Dwight.

That makes 17 of the 29 teams in the NBA not named the Mavericks who have the ABILITY to take on that entire package without us taking back any salary besides S&T targets. You could even through Denver in there if Iggy is a S&T target.

Other teams like Boston may like Marion and Carter because they are 2014 expiring's (in a KG, Bass, Lee, Green, Terry type 3-way).

Now obviously, there are free agents and rookie contracts that may be more appealing than Marion or Carter, but let's not act like Orlando is offering up some service so rare that we have to add positive value to positive value to make a deal.

First off you have to eliminate half of your list because either A) they have cap space to chase a free gent this year or B) to get enough cap space they would have to renounce all their free agents, which NO team does because then they lose their MLE.

So yes the Magic do have something rare and valuable, hence they are the only team to have it. It's the cleanest move for the Navs because no matter what team you might think will just take Marion off your hands, the reality is it will cost you at least a pick because no team is just going to help the Mavs sign Howard & Paul without compensation. It's that simple.

ROFLMAO at you actually suggesting you would get any picks out of a deal. That is absurd...

[JES12]

LOL. He still thinks the Magic team is the only team that wants players as good as Marion and Carter and then he disquises it as "we have no interest in keeping Carter or Marion so the object for us is the pick and Cunningham." You seriously underestimate how good Marion and Carter really are and how bargain of a contract they really are. $12.4 million for either one of them would be fine, but $12.4 million for both is a steal....and we own those contracts. Marion and Carter would immediately become your two best players based of PER stats. Afflalo and Nelson can't even reach 15 while Marion and Carter are 18; would it be okay for me to say "you give us Nelson and Afflalo, a rookie prospect and your pick in this draft because the Mavericks are the only team who can do so, so you have to do it?"


If stealing a pick and a prospect is your goal, then hit up LA for Arrest and Blake or Toronto for Bargnani and Kleiza. Golden State would give ya Biedrins. Milwaukee would give you Gooden. Detroit may do Charlie V and Stuckey (may).

They may actually require a pick in the late 20's to unload those packages. Pick #13 and Marion/Carter >>>>> than the crap you are offering.

And I don't have to delete any of those teams as I said they have the ABILITY and even capped that word. You never know how GMs are going to react once their plan A does not work out, so out of those17, I say 10 teams or so would have interest in Carter and Marion. Probably about 3-4 of them would give us late 1st rounders or early 2nd rounders for them.

[JES12]

Just to point out:

Marion is 8th in the league on PER out of SFs
1) Lebron James - $19,067,500
2) Kevin Durant - $17,832,627
3) Carmelo Anthony - $22,407,474
4) Paul Pierce - $15,333,334
5) Kenneth Faried - $1,367,640 (rookie scale)
6) Esan Ilyasova - $7,900,000
7) Thaddeus Young - $8,850,000
8) Shawn Marion - $9,316,796
9) Josh Smith - FA looking for the max
10) Andrei Kirilenko - $10,219,420

Carter is 5th amongst SGs
1) Dwayne Wade - $18,673,000
2) Kobe Bryant - $30,453,805
3) James Harden - $13,915,000
4) Manu Ginobili - Free Agent, but was making $14.1 mil
5) Vince Carter - $3,180,000
6) JR Smith - Free Agent
7) Jamal Crawford - $5,225,000
8) Gordon Hayward - $3,452,183
9) Wilson Chandler - $6,344,164
10) Gerald Henderson - Free Agent

Miami, New York, Denver and Dallas are the only teams with 2 wing players making the top 10 at their position. Strangely, Orlando was not even mentioned. They had Reddick at #19 who would have beat out Mayo at 24, but Afflalo at 36 was not even close. For the SF position, you have Tobias Harris at 16, so that is good.

I know PER is more of an offensive stat, but Marion has been our best defender ever since he joined the Mavs (even over Chandler) and Carter is the heart and leader of this team. No way are we giving them up for free, much less adding picks to them. If we do trade them, what ever team is bidding for their services would have to give up something. If somehow, it is in a 3-way for a superstar, then that incentive would get directed to LA or whatever team is doing the S&T. But no way in Hell Orlando steals those players and demands picks and prospects with them.

[SOUNDCHASER]

If Marion was rumored to go to Orl he would retire.

[TheMagicOne]

Just to point out:

Marion is 8th in the league on PER out of SFs
1) Lebron James - $19,067,500
2) Kevin Durant - $17,832,627
3) Carmelo Anthony - $22,407,474
4) Paul Pierce - $15,333,334
5) Kenneth Faried - $1,367,640 (rookie scale)
6) Esan Ilyasova - $7,900,000
7) Thaddeus Young - $8,850,000
8) Shawn Marion - $9,316,796
9) Josh Smith - FA looking for the max
10) Andrei Kirilenko - $10,219,420

Carter is 5th amongst SGs
1) Dwayne Wade - $18,673,000
2) Kobe Bryant - $30,453,805
3) James Harden - $13,915,000
4) Manu Ginobili - Free Agent, but was making $14.1 mil
5) Vince Carter - $3,180,000
6) JR Smith - Free Agent
7) Jamal Crawford - $5,225,000
8) Gordon Hayward - $3,452,183
9) Wilson Chandler - $6,344,164
10) Gerald Henderson - Free Agent

Miami, New York, Denver and Dallas are the only teams with 2 wing players making the top 10 at their position. Strangely, Orlando was not even mentioned. They had Reddick at #19 who would have beat out Mayo at 24, but Afflalo at 36 was not even close. For the SF position, you have Tobias Harris at 16, so that is good.

I know PER is more of an offensive stat, but Marion has been our best defender ever since he joined the Mavs (even over Chandler) and Carter is the heart and leader of this team. No way are we giving them up for free, much less adding picks to them. If we do trade them, what ever team is bidding for their services would have to give up something. If somehow, it is in a 3-way for a superstar, then that incentive would get directed to LA or whatever team is doing the S&T. But no way in Hell Orlando steals those players and demands picks and prospects with them.

You are the first team to appreciate Wince in a long time so I suggest you keep him. And if Marion is that valuable then I say you keep him too. But that means you have but one shot at only one free agent. So this is what it is. However, if you actually think you are going to go after both Paul and Howard....well you will need help and no team values Marion and Carter as your team does and you will have to throw in a pick to make a deal...and that is at the very least because teams in the NBA are not in the business to help out other teams. They are in the business of beating other teams & your owner, while loved by fans of many teams is not admired by owners of other teams. Just don't think that a team will say wow you are going to give us Marion just so you can sign Howard and Paul? Ha ha that is a funny one. You will have to do more than just give someone Marion.

[TheMagicOne]

By the way while you sit there and cherish Wince and Matrix, other teams will be calling ours wanting to get us to use our TPE's. so by the time your team figures out that they were a lotto team this last year and Wince and Matrix are not getting you out of the lotto, you will be calling us soon enough... Just hope it is not too late for you because the pairing of Paul, Howard & Dirk would be nice to see.

[JES12]

Once again, you way under-estimate the skill, smarts and value those two players have. I understand you want to talk trash about great players in order to try and "bargain" with other fans, but real life GM's know their value and your homeristic trades are ridiculous. In order to need to add incentive to dump a player, you have to have a player that needs to be dumped. Like I said, go look at Charlie V, Bierdens, Gooden, Artest, Kleiza, etc. Neither Marion nor Carter are in that class.

[mffl_14]

Dude just because Vince sucked for the Magic doesn't mean he's worthless now. He's not what he used to be but he was a very solid contributor this year and had this team made the playoffs might have won 6th man. So your argument against Vince doesn't apply (especially considering how cheap he is.) Secondly, Marion isn't a bad contract. He has a big contract that could potentially halt a deal getting 2 superstars but Marion can still ball. He is a great defensive stopper and you don't have to run the offense through him because he will get his shots. The guy is still a great player at his age.

[JES12]

By the way while you sit there and cherish Wince and Matrix, other teams will be calling ours wanting to get us to use our TPE's. so by the time your team figures out that they were a lotto team this last year and Wince and Matrix are not getting you out of the lotto, you will be calling us soon enough... Just hope it is not too late for you because the pairing of Paul, Howard & Dirk would be nice to see.

Your posturing is quite annoying. I have already pointed out that over half this league will have flexibility this year. Orlando is not the only player.

And until I hear Paul and Dwight say they are ready to ink with Dallas, we are one of those teams listening to offers for 2014 expirings like Pau Gasol, Paul Pierce, Danny Granger, etc., etc.

True: We would like to land CP3 and Dwight
True: There are many teams would are dreaming of the same.
True: Dallas is not in the best position to land both.
False: Dallas needs to clear our any players to target a max player.
False: Josh Smith taking up $18 million is better than Marion making $9.3
False: Orlando is the only team that can help Dallas.
False: Dallas is trying to get rid of great players like Marion and Carter
False: Your Presti model only applies to your team (in fact, over half this league can follow that model if they want.
True: There are more buyers than sellers this summer (good for us, bad for you).

[DBoys]

However, if you actually think you are going to go after both Paul and Howard....well you will need help ..

The reality is, the Mavs are likely to need very little help. Depends on where the cap lands. But it's likely they already have enough cap room for a max deal for Paul, and to get room for Howard instead would take one small deal with one team who wants one player.

There's not really a scenario in which sending everyone to Orlando (or elsewhere) will be necessary, or becomes a priority. And there will be lots of cap room looking for talent this summer, so Orlando won't be the only game in town.

Is it possible the Mavs and Orlando could end up hooking up on a deal? Perhaps. But the Mavs have lots of other things they may prefer instead.