ImageImageImageImage

Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Edition)

Moderators: Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass, ChosenSavior, UCF

User avatar
KingRobb02
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,464
And1: 917
Joined: Aug 07, 2007
         

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#81 » by KingRobb02 » Tue May 14, 2013 4:39 pm

drsd wrote:I like Bill Simmons idea of having the top 7 teams get an automatic entry to the playoffs and the other 8 teams in a conference playing a single-elimination tournament for that 8th slot. Not only does it sound fun, which is really the point of sports, but it also means that teams in the high 20s will play hard at the season's close rather than tank. This idea only adds three games to the conference calendar.


..
BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Well. I don't believe in Tanking. Ever. That is a poor way to play a sport as a professionals. If teams continue to tank on purpose, then they need to change the lottery to where every team in the lottery has an equal chance at the 1st overall pick.

I've been saying for years that the NBA should do away with incentivizing bad play and just give every team a 1 in 30 shot at the top pick. If there was no reward for missing the playoffs, do you think Philly tries a bit harder to improve it's roster? The "downside" is that a team like the Spurs or Heat could end up with a top pick, but it would definitely even things out in the long run. Top picks aren't everything. Looking at last years draft, the best player was clearly Kyrie, but considering injuries and such, I would say the guys who have helped their teams just as much were Faried and Leonard. Those guys were both picked outside the lottery anyway. If the NBA really cared about quality of play, they would do away with rewarding bad play.


Maybe not all 30 teams, but all non-playoff teams have an equal chance at the top Pick. Then, teams would truly fight for the playoffs every year or fight to win out of pride and chemistry because they really hate to lose instead of allowing teams players to just give up.


I don't like his idea, because it would mean that there is a chance Houston misses the playoffs this year because Boogie Cousins gets hot for 1 game. I'm fine with the 82 game season deciding who moves on to the playoffs. It's the fact that next year we will probably have 8 teams actively trying to put out the worst product possible. Charlotte has cap room and large expirings that could bring in a guy who could help them. How much do you want to bet they do nothing major?

I say put all 30 teams in because I think it would be fun to see a 6 seed have a shot at a real reward instead of being forced to make decisions about either overspending in free agency or bottoming out and starting from scratch. An all-30 team lottery allows teams to rebuild on the fly. Where would Trey Burke be more fun to watch next season? Indiana or that basketball purgatory known as Phoenix?
londoncollin
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,453
And1: 231
Joined: May 12, 2011
       

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#82 » by londoncollin » Tue May 14, 2013 4:46 pm

I'm fine with changing tanking rules, but only after we tank and get Wiggins.
User avatar
BadMofoPimp
RealGM
Posts: 49,057
And1: 12,513
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
Location: In the Paint

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#83 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue May 14, 2013 4:51 pm

Zmill wrote:
And I value your dissenting opinion BMP, and I agree that as long as people want Noel, want to tank, and want to ship out BBD, you can say whatever you want.


Thanks. But, I will try not to overdo it. Sometimes, when I see those "I want Noel" or "BBD Sucks" posts, I cannot help myself. My fingers start doing the talking. I gotz no control!
Image

Provin Ya'll Wrong!!!
tranjSAIC
Banned User
Posts: 4,711
And1: 527
Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Location: orlando
Contact:

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#84 » by tranjSAIC » Tue May 14, 2013 5:10 pm

I'm fine with tanking as a fan, I rather my franchise does something dramatic to actually try to improve for the future as compared to being a okay team. Do you think Spurs are happy with their decision to take for Timmy D? What about OKC? What about Indy with Luck? Suck for Luck had a great ring to it right?
Neon1
RealGM
Posts: 11,085
And1: 1,576
Joined: Dec 24, 2003
Location: The O
       

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#85 » by Neon1 » Tue May 14, 2013 5:16 pm

tranjSAIC wrote:I'm fine with tanking as a fan, I rather my franchise does something dramatic to actually try to improve for the future as compared to being a okay team. Do you think Spurs are happy with their decision to take for Timmy D? What about OKC? What about Indy with Luck? Suck for Luck had a great ring to it right?


Spurs didnt tank, thier franchise player went down for the year.

NFL tanking is totally different. The pick is guaranteed. We could have the worst record in the NBA for two straight years and the odds would favor that we have a better shot at having the #4 pick for two straight years then having won the #1 pick even once.
A smart coach once said, "Potential just means you're not good enough yet." Playing on potential is like living on air: It's essential, but if thats all you have, you're eventually going to starve.

Twitter: @CleonONE IG: @usaidwhatnah
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 39,128
And1: 8,928
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#86 » by drsd » Tue May 14, 2013 6:10 pm

Neon1 wrote:We could have the worst record in the NBA for two straight years and the odds would favor that we have a better shot at having the #4 pick for two straight years then having won the #1 pick even once.


In the last 10 years, the worst team did not win the lottery.

..
User avatar
BadMofoPimp
RealGM
Posts: 49,057
And1: 12,513
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
Location: In the Paint

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#87 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue May 14, 2013 6:20 pm

I think the Magic break the trend this year due to the Stern Factor.

David Stern rewards farm teams.
Image

Provin Ya'll Wrong!!!
Rick Rolled
General Manager
Posts: 8,565
And1: 3,796
Joined: Jun 15, 2005
       

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#88 » by Rick Rolled » Tue May 14, 2013 6:23 pm

The All-Rookie Teams were announced. No Magicians.

illard was the lone unanimous First Team selection (58 points, 29 First Team votes), while the Washington Wizards' Bradley Beal and the New Orleans Hornets' Anthony Davis totaled 57 points each, including 28 First Team votes. Rounding out the 2012-13 NBA All-Rookie First Team are Dion Waiters of the Cleveland Cavaliers (50 points, 21 First Team) and Harrison Barnes of the Golden State Warriors (47 points, 18 First Team).


The NBA All-Rookie Second Team consists of the Detroit Pistons' Andre Drummond (35 points, 10 First Team), the Toronto Raptors' Jonas Valanciunas (31 points, six First Team), the Charlotte Bobcats' Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (29 points, three First Team), the Detroit Pistons' Kyle Singler (17 points, one First Team), and the Cavaliers' Tyler Zeller (15 points, three First Team).


http://www.nba.com/2013/news/05/14/all-rookie-team-official-release/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpts

I think Maurice could have easily replaced Singler on that 2nd team list.
3Pac wrote:sorry for bad english am from pennsylvania
User avatar
rcklsscognition
RealGM
Posts: 22,345
And1: 7,414
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Contact:
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#89 » by rcklsscognition » Tue May 14, 2013 6:31 pm

Important for us to realize our rookies, despite playing tons of minutes, go no love in the voting. They're just not that good. We are not purposefully tanking, our players are just not that good.
tranjSAIC
Banned User
Posts: 4,711
And1: 527
Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Location: orlando
Contact:

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#90 » by tranjSAIC » Tue May 14, 2013 6:32 pm

Neon1 wrote:
tranjSAIC wrote:I'm fine with tanking as a fan, I rather my franchise does something dramatic to actually try to improve for the future as compared to being a okay team. Do you think Spurs are happy with their decision to take for Timmy D? What about OKC? What about Indy with Luck? Suck for Luck had a great ring to it right?


Spurs didnt tank, thier franchise player went down for the year.

NFL tanking is totally different. The pick is guaranteed. We could have the worst record in the NBA for two straight years and the odds would favor that we have a better shot at having the #4 pick for two straight years then having won the #1 pick even once.

Trust me man, the Spurs tanked. Ask their fan based, most of them agree. I know Robinson went down but they also didn't rush anyone back. All of the guys that got hurt took longer to come back.
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 18,514
And1: 8,804
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#91 » by Skin » Tue May 14, 2013 6:38 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:Important for us to realize our rookies, despite playing tons of minutes, go no love in the voting. They're just not that good. We are not purposefully tanking, our players are just not that good.

Being on the worst team in the NBA doesn't help voting. Votes don't equal how good a player is either. Our talent is developing and we're on the right track.
User avatar
Blue_and_Whte
RealGM
Posts: 24,654
And1: 9,548
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Location: Orlando, FL.
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#92 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue May 14, 2013 7:30 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:Important for us to realize our rookies, despite playing tons of minutes, go no love in the voting. They're just not that good. We are not purposefully tanking, our players are just not that good.

I'm going to give 19 year old Maurice Harkless a chance to grow. He's not even close to hitting his peak. I think he's better than Singler right now.
Faith, Family, & Orlando Magic
#2A
#Adopt
#MAGA
User avatar
Neato
GOTB Fantasy Basketball Champ
Posts: 14,799
And1: 6,080
Joined: Apr 11, 2010
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#93 » by Neato » Tue May 14, 2013 7:38 pm

Not sure why it's sometimes difficult for people to accept that bad teams have bad records because they are bad and not because of some primary strategy to lose, lose, and lose.
User avatar
BadMofoPimp
RealGM
Posts: 49,057
And1: 12,513
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
Location: In the Paint

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#94 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue May 14, 2013 7:42 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:Important for us to realize our rookies, despite playing tons of minutes, go no love in the voting. They're just not that good. We are not purposefully tanking, our players are just not that good.

I'm going to give 19 year old Maurice Harkless a chance to grow. He's not even close to hitting his peak. I think he's better than Singler right now.


I watched quite a few Pistons games via feeds and Harkless definitely was better than Singler. Maybe not 1st half of the season though. After all-star break, it was all Harkless.
Image

Provin Ya'll Wrong!!!
User avatar
rcklsscognition
RealGM
Posts: 22,345
And1: 7,414
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Contact:
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#95 » by rcklsscognition » Tue May 14, 2013 8:04 pm

Skin wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:Important for us to realize our rookies, despite playing tons of minutes, go no love in the voting. They're just not that good. We are not purposefully tanking, our players are just not that good.

Being on the worst team in the NBA doesn't help voting. Votes don't equal how good a player is either. Our talent is developing and we're on the right track.


I think votes do equal how good a player is in this case. This is voted on by coaches. But I wasn't saying they won't be good in the future, just that they aren't good now. As in basketball players, they're not good. So when everyone is being outraged that we might purposefully tank next year, I say it's not on purpose, it's natural. They're not good now. One could hope they would get better next year, but how many rookies get significantly better in their 2nd year? As in going from scrub to legit NBA starter?
User avatar
BadMofoPimp
RealGM
Posts: 49,057
And1: 12,513
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
Location: In the Paint

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#96 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue May 14, 2013 8:20 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:
They're not good now. One could hope they would get better next year, but how many rookies get significantly better in their 2nd year? As in going from scrub to legit NBA starter?


Which of our rookies are scrubs?
Image

Provin Ya'll Wrong!!!
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 18,514
And1: 8,804
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#97 » by Skin » Tue May 14, 2013 8:28 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:
Skin wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:Important for us to realize our rookies, despite playing tons of minutes, go no love in the voting. They're just not that good. We are not purposefully tanking, our players are just not that good.

Being on the worst team in the NBA doesn't help voting. Votes don't equal how good a player is either. Our talent is developing and we're on the right track.


I think votes do equal how good a player is in this case. This is voted on by coaches. But I wasn't saying they won't be good in the future, just that they aren't good now. As in basketball players, they're not good. So when everyone is being outraged that we might purposefully tank next year, I say it's not on purpose, it's natural. They're not good now. One could hope they would get better next year, but how many rookies get significantly better in their 2nd year? As in going from scrub to legit NBA starter?

I dunno... Does Tobias Harris count? What about Nikola Vucevic?

I think not only are you off on the basis that votes equal how good a players is, but also off on the idea that rookies don't improve in their 2nd years in the league. Wow it's actually quite surprising how off base your take is on the matter.
NickAnderson
General Manager
Posts: 7,889
And1: 2,922
Joined: Jul 11, 2009
Location: Club Space
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#98 » by NickAnderson » Tue May 14, 2013 8:40 pm

I can't believe some of you still want Noel dude can't even land properly
MagicFan41
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,944
And1: 167
Joined: Jul 09, 2010

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#99 » by MagicFan41 » Tue May 14, 2013 8:53 pm

Neon1 wrote:
tranjSAIC wrote:I'm fine with tanking as a fan, I rather my franchise does something dramatic to actually try to improve for the future as compared to being a okay team. Do you think Spurs are happy with their decision to take for Timmy D? What about OKC? What about Indy with Luck? Suck for Luck had a great ring to it right?


Spurs didnt tank, thier franchise player went down for the year.

NFL tanking is totally different. The pick is guaranteed. We could have the worst record in the NBA for two straight years and the odds would favor that we have a better shot at having the #4 pick for two straight years then having won the #1 pick even once.



Math fail.

Odds of having the #4 pick two straight years = 0.1245 (12.45%)
Odds of having the #1 pick at least once = 0.4375 (43.75%)

Not even remotely close to each other.


Grammar fail.

"than having won" not "then having won".

Your point is dunzoed. ;)
orlando1214
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,625
And1: 2,296
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: Florida
         

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#100 » by orlando1214 » Tue May 14, 2013 8:56 pm

Skin wrote:I dunno... Does Tobias Harris count? What about Nikola Vucevic?

I think not only are you off on the basis that votes equal how good a players is, but also off on the idea that rookies don't improve in their 2nd years in the league. Wow it's actually quite surprising how off base your take is on the matter.


Yeah I completely agree. I never really take these list that seriously anyways. I mean I didn't exactly agree with their All-Defensive team as well. Also, these list definitely don't equal how good a player is. I mean with that logic then that would mean Steph Curry isn't an all-star level talent just because the coaches haven't voted him in yet, which is a complete joke btw. It's also not like our rookies weren't praised during the season. I know the media saw how good they were, I mean Harkless was constantly in the top 10 for the nba.com and espn rookie rankings.

And yeah, it's silly to think rookie don't improve much in their second year, especially after we had two second year players that did exactly that.

Return to Orlando Magic