Proky: We need "one more good player" to become elite

[vincecarter4pres]

King isn't even a great drafter, he's incredibly overrated in that department as well.

He's good at finding value late in drafts and is especially solid in the second round.

But he's mainly awful in the lottery and he has trouble cashing in on the value he finds before the rest of the league figures out that player isn't even very good or needs years to develop even though that player is old for their time in the league and has low upside.

**** Billy King of the Overpay.

[vincecarter4pres]

Some stupid long winded post by some douche named VC.

This is what i've been thinking since forever and it is why I don't mind BK coming back. You basically summed up the realistic situation for this team which isn't a bad situation with good moves

Meh, my post had little to nothing positive to do with King. He has a head full of f**k to be honest.

But the fact still remains we have a superstar-ish player in his prime, a young budding star center and some draft picks/prospects/Euros and a big expiring to hopefully make some solid improvements and there is always the possibility another gift trade falls into Billy's lap and the outside shot we land a star through the draft.

We'll also hopefully wind up with a truly good coach.

That is why I have hope of at least a dark horse contender here and why it's possible.

Billy has F'ed this all up though, it's now a long shot and it should have been a lock. He deserves zero credit as if we're in some great situation. We are not.

That wasn't the point I was making. We're still behind the eight ball. I just don't see it as an absolute certainty that we're doomed to be a constant 1st round out or a 2nd round ceiling. That was all I was saying, that there is still realistic upside.

[therealbig3]

Look at the Heat right now, Wade is injured and playing horribly. The only thing saving them against a depleted Bulls team that we would have destroyed with a competent head coach is the fact that LeBron is awesome.

If we played this Heat team right now in the 2nd round, I actually think we would have had a decent chance at extending this series out and a long shot to even win. They're not close to their top form right now, because of Wade's injury.

Anyway, injuries happen, even to the contenders, which allow 2nd tier teams to squeak through. Look at Memphis, look at Indiana. These teams have legit chances at possibly getting to the Finals. I really do think the Indiana and Miami series is going to be a dog fight unless Wade gets back to at least 60-70%.

[PetroNet]

Look at the Heat right now, Wade is injured and playing horribly. The only thing saving them against a depleted Bulls team that we would have destroyed with a competent head coach is the fact that LeBron is awesome.

If we played this Heat team right now in the 2nd round, I actually think we would have had a decent chance at extending this series out and a long shot to even win. They're not close to their top form right now, because of Wade's injury.

Anyway, injuries happen, even to the contenders, which allow 2nd tier teams to squeak through. Look at Memphis, look at Indiana. These teams have legit chances at possibly getting to the Finals. I really do think the Indiana and Miami series is going to be a dog fight unless Wade gets back to at least 60-70%.

in genera i agree with what you are saying... that injuries happen... wade, westbrook, bosh last year. you just never know.

but i dont se eus giving the heat any trouble. with or without wade. Their team defense is outstanding. they rotate flawlessly, and turnovers are instant points for them. I just dont see us being able to find consistent offense or to protect the ball. i think we'd turn it over 15+ times every game. we dont really pass well as a team, and they feast on that.

i just dont see that going past 5 games

[MrDollarBills]

If we played this Heat team right now in the 2nd round, I actually think we would have had a decent chance at extending this series out and a long shot to even win. They're not close to their top form right now, because of Wade's injury.

And yet, we would have still been run off of the floor.

We struggled and LOST against a depleted Bulls team. I'm not sure what the Nets showed you that even remotely lends credence to your claim that we'd have been a "long shot to win".

Let's be real here. We would have been swept.

[therealbig3]

If we played this Heat team right now in the 2nd round, I actually think we would have had a decent chance at extending this series out and a long shot to even win. They're not close to their top form right now, because of Wade's injury.

And yet, we would have still been run off of the floor.

We struggled against a depleted Bulls team. I'm not sure what the Nets showed you that even remotely lends credence to your claim that we'd have been a "long shot to win".

Let's be real here.

I should have been clearer: I was assuming with a competent head coach...I did point out that we would have destroyed the Bulls with a competent head coach, and with that anonymous coach, we would have given this Heat team with a hobbled Wade a real battle imo.

[MrDollarBills]

Look at the Heat right now, Wade is injured and playing horribly. The only thing saving them against a depleted Bulls team that we would have destroyed with a competent head coach is the fact that LeBron is awesome.

If we played this Heat team right now in the 2nd round, I actually think we would have had a decent chance at extending this series out and a long shot to even win. They're not close to their top form right now, because of Wade's injury.

Anyway, injuries happen, even to the contenders, which allow 2nd tier teams to squeak through. Look at Memphis, look at Indiana. These teams have legit chances at possibly getting to the Finals. I really do think the Indiana and Miami series is going to be a dog fight unless Wade gets back to at least 60-70%.

in genera i agree with what you are saying... that injuries happen... wade, westbrook, bosh last year. you just never know.

but i dont se eus giving the heat any trouble. with or without wade. Their team defense is outstanding. they rotate flawlessly, and turnovers are instant points for them. I just dont see us being able to find consistent offense or to protect the ball. i think we'd turn it over 15+ times every game. we dont really pass well as a team, and they feast on that.

i just dont see that going past 5 games

They would just put Lebron on D-Will and destroy anything that the Nets had hopes of doing.

[MrDollarBills]

If we played this Heat team right now in the 2nd round, I actually think we would have had a decent chance at extending this series out and a long shot to even win. They're not close to their top form right now, because of Wade's injury.

And yet, we would have still been run off of the floor.

We struggled against a depleted Bulls team. I'm not sure what the Nets showed you that even remotely lends credence to your claim that we'd have been a "long shot to win".

Let's be real here.

I should have been clearer: I was assuming with a competent head coach...I did point out that we would have destroyed the Bulls with a competent head coach, and with that anonymous coach, we would have given this Heat team with a hobbled Wade a real battle imo.

Well that's different.

Even still, I don't see us beating the Heat even if we had Phil Jackson coaching us.

[therealbig3]

Look at the Heat right now, Wade is injured and playing horribly. The only thing saving them against a depleted Bulls team that we would have destroyed with a competent head coach is the fact that LeBron is awesome.

If we played this Heat team right now in the 2nd round, I actually think we would have had a decent chance at extending this series out and a long shot to even win. They're not close to their top form right now, because of Wade's injury.

Anyway, injuries happen, even to the contenders, which allow 2nd tier teams to squeak through. Look at Memphis, look at Indiana. These teams have legit chances at possibly getting to the Finals. I really do think the Indiana and Miami series is going to be a dog fight unless Wade gets back to at least 60-70%.

in genera i agree with what you are saying... that injuries happen... wade, westbrook, bosh last year. you just never know.

but i dont se eus giving the heat any trouble. with or without wade. Their team defense is outstanding. they rotate flawlessly, and turnovers are instant points for them. I just dont see us being able to find consistent offense or to protect the ball. i think we'd turn it over 15+ times every game. we dont really pass well as a team, and they feast on that.

i just dont see that going past 5 games

They would just put Lebron on D-Will and destroy anything that the Nets had hopes of doing.

When LeBron guards PGs, he lets them take the outside jumper, and takes away their drive. That's how he guards Rose and Rondo, and because they can't shoot (Rose is inconsistent, Rondo legitimately can't shoot), they struggle when they're guarded by him. D-Will, OTOH, can shoot and was shooting well to end the year and the playoffs...he would do better than Rose or Rondo did imo.

[vincecarter4pres]

Yeah but doesn't Lebron guard Rose and Rondo like that because Rondo can't shoot and because Rose is an average shooter and also that means Lebron was limiting the incredible driving ability of Rose?

I would say Lebron can D up nearly anyone in the league and at least and especially with point guards who shoulder the load to the point he's making it very hard for them and breaking up the teams sets and limiting the amount of good looks they will get.

Deron could even go off and we'd still be stuck because we don't have enough shooters to keep their collapse honest when Deron does blow by him and get to the paint and we don't have another on ball shot creator or athletic slasher that takes more then a Battier level man cover to force Lebron to cheat off Deron.

JJ can create, but it's either all slow iso 8 dribble back down stuff that's man D coverable, or it's off ball spot ups.

I really hate that JJ is on this roster TBH. It's not even the money he makes in comparison to his skill, impact and age, it's that he has to be a big part of the offensive game plan yet it's to where he impacts the sets run for everyone else and really impacts the effectiveness of every other player, even impacts the thought process going forward for trades of players that will be alongside him all in a negative manner. He's not good enough and has become too slow, with a horrible first step to have a high usage rate with the ball in his hands while slowing everything to halt, yet he needs to be used like that a large amount of the time or he's completely useless out there and yes that's even considering that he should and can be used a lot more off ball with a proper coach.

Was such an awful trade, just in a basketball sense, forget the assets that went out...

[therealbig3]

I have to somehow convince posters on the PC board that D-Will was better than Conley this year.

Wow.

[Reaper 21]

Billy King getting a lot of hate for a playoff team. They had no shot of contending before the year started, they never did with this team. But they made the playoffs amongst the adversity of moving cities, changing coaches, and revamping a roster. Did he overpay, yes, but to be mad shame on you. Look at the other 14 teams who didn't make the playoffs, they would be loving this roster. There is still room for improvement, it might be more long term then you hoped but at least this was a winning ball club. As a redskins fan, it's similar shannahan changed a losing culture similar to the nets awful for years. He did so by putting us in a rough situation to improve short term( cap penalty) (hump, Wallace) but we love shanny for making us relevant. Even if it was just for a year, be grateful an give this man some time. He did get an extension so deal with it.

[enetric]

If we played this Heat team right now in the 2nd round, I actually think we would have had a decent chance at extending this series out and a long shot to even win. They're not close to their top form right now, because of Wade's injury.

And yet, we would have still been run off of the floor.

We struggled and LOST against a depleted Bulls team. I'm not sure what the Nets showed you that even remotely lends credence to your claim that we'd have been a "long shot to win".

Let's be real here. We would have been swept.

We would have been destroyed. The only game we would have had any shot to win was game one just as the Bulls did. Catch a napping rusty team that was resting for too long and taking it easy. Beyond that we would have been smacked.

[enetric]

If we played this Heat team right now in the 2nd round, I actually think we would have had a decent chance at extending this series out and a long shot to even win. They're not close to their top form right now, because of Wade's injury.

And yet, we would have still been run off of the floor.

We struggled against a depleted Bulls team. I'm not sure what the Nets showed you that even remotely lends credence to your claim that we'd have been a "long shot to win".

Let's be real here.

I should have been clearer: I was assuming with a competent head coach...I did point out that we would have destroyed the Bulls with a competent head coach, and with that anonymous coach, we would have given this Heat team with a hobbled Wade a real battle imo.

With a competent head coach I think we beat the Bulls in 6 games because I would like to think we wouldnt have dumped the 14 point lead 3OT game. But against the Heat? Even this Heat with a hobbled Wade? Nah. Still no D, bad team passing no transition game, rely on ONE guy in the starting 5 to grab all the boards isnt being made up by the coach. I understand your point...but I think in the end we still go down in flames.

More than a coach...we need King to get the Hump trade right. Have to hope there is something worth dealing for that he does the right thing.

[vincecarter4pres]

Here's a crazy thought... Brook/JJ/Brooks/picks for Melo/Chandler.

[Jersey Generals]

They had no shot of contending before the year started, they never did with this team.

And they still don't. So what's your point?

[Reaper 21]

Haha did you really think even if billy king did everything you want the nets would have a shot at the heat. Our dreaming. This team was terrible until the jj trade which did hinder us going forward

[Reaper 21]

My point is right now is the lebron era get used to it. It's going to be a while. Point is would you rather be competing in the playoffs or watching. It's going to take miracles to beat the heat in the east, but miracles can only happen if your in the playoffs which we were

[Jersey Generals]

Watching, rather than getting beat by a sick, hobbled team with more heart. Mediocrity should not be lauded.

[therealbig3]

I think in retrospect, instead of keeping D-Will, we should have pursued Curry, whose trade value was at an all-time low during the 2012 season. At the 2012 trade deadline, knowing what I know now, I would have traded Deron to GS for Curry and that year's pick, which probably ends up around 10 with D-Will playing half-assed. Keep our pick too.

At that point, we have a ton of different directions we could have gone in. Two top 10 lottery picks, one of them (ours) most likely top 3, maybe even the 1st overall pick, which would have landed us Davis. We could have also acquired Dwight. Or Harden. Or both?

Assuming we have the #1 overall pick, we use the other pick to acquire Dwight:

PG-Curry
SG-?
SF-?
PF-Davis
C-Dwight

Now we use the other pick to acquire Harden instead of Dwight:

PG-Curry
SG-Harden
SF-?
PF-Davis
C-?

Now we use one pick each for Harden and Dwight:

PG-Curry
SG-Harden
SF-?
PF-?
C-Dwight

If we didn't win the lottery, we most likely would have used both picks to trade for Dwight or Harden. Either way, going into 2013, we have Curry about to have the year of his life, and another legitimate superstar to pair with him. Additionally, if it was Curry and Harden paired together, our two best players are incredibly young and have massive room for improvement, which means they'd still be going strong by the time the Heat get really old. We'd either still have expirings or legit assets, or a ton of cap space which we could use to fill out the roster properly to surround our two franchise players.

That team would have had a much brighter future and a much better current as well, to be honest.

But you know what they say, 20/20 and all that.