Let the tank for Wiggins debate begin... (article)

[S.W.A.N]

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-gam ... 59144.html

North of the border, the burning question should be how far the country's lone NBA franchise, the MLSE-owned Raptors, should go to manoeuvre to get the first Southern Ontario born- and -bred hoops star in the 2014 draft.
[Top prep prospect Andrew Wiggins to attend Kansas]
It shouldn't even be a question of if they should. In terms of (a) relevancy to the casual sports fan and (b) rewarding a loyal fanbase which is almost as steadfast as the supporters of other perennial also-ran Toronto teams, what is MLSE clinging to? Filling a hole in the Raptors' lineup this summer after GM Bryan Colangelo heads out the door won't turn heads. Somehow going from 34 wins to 44 and going down fighting in the first round of the playoffs, Toronto Maple Leafs-style, won't hit that nerve.
The very fact that Canada has a coming golden generation of basketball stars coming up through the ranks — among others, Tristan Thompson was a lottery pick by the Cleveland Cavaliers in 2011 while Brampton, Ont.'s Anthony Bennett and Kamloops, B.C.'s Kelly Olynyk should be first-rounders in this summer's draft — proves the worth of having a franchise in Toronto. Yet you still hear grousing about the franchise's mere existence. That overlooks that the effect of the Raptors' presence on grassroots Canadian basketball. It has has been the same as the influence the Wayne Gretzky Los Angeles Kings and Mario Lemieux Pittsburgh Penguins of the early 1990s had on inspiring honest-to-goodness NHL prospects to emerge from areas of the U.S. where hockey had only been an entertainment product, not a sport locals could realistically aspire to play at the highest level.

I've been anti-tank the last few years but for Wiggins I would gladly end my holdout to the concept of losing to win. He looks like elite prospect in the Lebron/Durant superstar mold who happens to be Canadian... You would think MLSE would be salivating at the marketing possibilities.

Would end my support for BC and Casey as they have shown no ability to run a proper tank... But I okay with that

[Inevitable]

I can't believe people are against tanking for him. He's the grand prize but the next 5+ selections are franchise altering talents too.

[Randle McMurphy]

If there is ever a year the Raptors should be tanking during an actual rebuild (and make no mistake, they absolutely should be considering their weak core), it is next season. There is some major talent in that draft.

[Hendrix]

If there is ever a year the Raptors should be tanking during an actual rebuild (and make no mistake, they absolutely should be considering their weak core), it is next season. There is some major talent in that draft.

Agreed. I wouldn't be for it if it was only Wiggins. But there's a number of great draft prospects out there that would be great to pair with Val, which would potentially give us 2 future all stars, and some decent talent around them, and some cap space for a sick free agent market. That would be a decent position to be in. Currently, even if Val does become an all star, he wouldn't be 'enough' of an all star in all probability to do much with the remaining talent on the team, and limited financial flexability to make additional moves.

[CB4Champ]

Man People, This will be the 1st time I am rooting for Dat Tank ISH. Tank, Tank and then TANK some more.

Kick out BC, Casey, Anderson etc and let the L's pile up. Wiggins and Jabari are worth the loss season and I hope who ever is GM sees this is Torontos chance to pick up an Vince Carter T-Mac type player.

Stock up on picks and let us Show the Association TO is not to be Messed with.

[LascelleL]

I've been begging for a Tank for him...us not having a pick was suppose to allow us to develop our young players..but BC...man I hope we really get to clean house

[Slackstring701]

I'm all for it.

Full on Tank would be sick ...

[Rap4Life_J]

Man People, This will be the 1st time I am rooting for Dat Tank ISH. Tank, Tank and then TANK some more.

Kick out BC, Casey, Anderson etc and let the L's pile up. Wiggins and Jabari are worth the loss season and I hope who ever is GM sees this is Torontos chance to pick up an Vince Carter T-Mac type player.

Stock up on picks and let us Show the Association TO is not to be Messed with.

Either way with BC, Casey, or Anderson, this team will not be a bottom 5 teams next season.

1. Since Casey is on the contract, if we fire him and hire another bad coach, we paid more for the same quality of coach.

2. We still have a lot of good player on our hand: Gay, JV, Demar, and Lowry. We just cannot fake it every game, and player don't fake for all season. It is hard for us to dumb away our player and get all the bad players.

3. Either if we keep Anderson or not, we are still the same team. If we keep him, we could not get into bottom 5 consider 30 to 40 percent of the games his chuck shots are lucky to get in. If we kick him out, we might get a player who has better quality than him.

I do believe our current roster can reach about 4 to 5 seeds next season. Base on our young core of players improvement and the grow of chemistry. All we need is to adjust our bench players to become better and improve our coaching staff.

Anyway, I do believe MLSE is willing to spend money on getting quality players through free agency starting this summer. They want to be LA where they want to get big name via free agency and trade. Think about it, Most of the players from Lakers are not being drafted by them. They get all the talents through trade, and that's what they want to do!

[Kabookalu]

Knowing our luck this is how it's going to end up, aim for Wiggins/Parker, end up with Randle after losing the coin toss.

[DG88]

Here's what we do when the new GM roles in trade one of our pieces for a mid first rounder and draft Dennis Schroeder. Tank hard next season for Wiggins. If all works out well this is our starting lineup of the future.

Schroeder
Ross
Wiggins
Johnson
Valanciunas

It's a pipe dream but still that core would be soooo dirty.

[Zeno]

Well tanking isn't as simple as it seems. You can't just instruct the players to lose. You'd need to move out certain player who contribute to winning. You've also got to bench players down the stretch who contribute to winning with incentives in their contracts like Amir. I think you'd have to at a minimum move out Lowry, Gay, Demar and Bargs (for public relations/his safety). You would probably have to move Amir too in my opinion just out of decency.

Those players make a fair bit of money as you all know.

[WhatsaTDot]

The moves we would be required to make to unload our players/salaries would continue to cripple the franchise for years to come; aka The BC Effect.

[Randle McMurphy]

Well tanking isn't as simple as it seems. You can't just instruct the players to lose. You'd need to move out certain player who contribute to winning. You've also got to bench players down the stretch who contribute to winning with incentives in their contracts like Amir. I think you'd have to at a minimum move out Lowry, Gay, Demar and Bargs (for public relations/his safety). You would probably have to move Amir too in my opinion just out of decency.

Those players make a fair bit of money as you all know.

Bargnani would be great to keep around for tanking purposes. In fact, he could be instrumental. Give him all the minutes and shots he wants.

[Double Helix]

I don't see us doing it. Sorry, folks. The only way we get a bottom 3 pick in next year's draft is if we trade for one and it's hard to imagine any team wanting to tank for us in a good draft not wanting Jonas as the centerpiece.

The other problem is that teams that have already won the #1 pick rarely trade it on draft day. They know that their fans have already grown attached to the name at the top when there's a clear-cut favorite. In fact, I can't remember the last time a #1 was traded and announced at the draft.

He's not going to be as good as Lebron or Durant anyway. He's not the ball-handler or passer that James was and he's not 6'11 like Durant. Yes, he's the most hyped prospect since Lebron but if he wasn't Canadian we'd all be scrutinizing harder, especially after witnessing a guy like Harrison Barnes go from being the clear cut best prospect in HS basketball to just a good player in the NCAA. A lot of the hype stems from how good he was at a young age. What's his greatest single attribute as a SF? Nobody can really seem to answer that question. He's above average at most things and will unquestionably be a good SF but will he become a transformative NBA player the way Lebron or KD have? I don't see the one thing that will separate him from Bron, KD, George and Mello that makes him truly special. He's a scorer that can block shots and rebound. To me, at 6'7-6'8 that sounds like a more efficient Rudy Gay or Paul George type. I think he'll be a better version of that type of SF. Still going to be a top 5 SF but I think the hype is a bit much based on where he's from and how long we've known him. His handle and court vision aren't anywhere near as special as Lebron's were at the same age and his height is simply the new standard for the position. He relies a lot on his jumper.

[nodeal]

What exactly are we risking with a rebuild? We will finish 6th-11th next yr if we dont rebuild, and continue to finish 6th-11th. Jonas should get better, but so will orl cle cha det wsh phi.

Dont rebuild
Worst case - 11th
Best case - land a playoff spot and maybe win a series. about a 5% shot

Rebuild
Worst case - A high 2014 draft pick in a great draft + whatever prospects we were able to acquire with gay/lowry/amir(bring him back in 2 yrs)/demar.
Best case - land wiggins. about a 15% shot

I dont like the excuse, "Im tired of losing I want to start winning" What makes you think continuing on the same path we've been on for the past 5 yrs is going to turn into something different?


20 - 25 - 40 - 50 - 55
vs
39 - 39 - 39 - 39 - 39
these are wins over the next 5 yrs which would you prefer?

[nahom1319]

^^^ He's not wrong

I think the hope here is that these aspects will get fleshed out during his time with Bill Self. As his skills stand now, my gut would have me take Jabari Parker over Wiggins. I just feel that he is a much more cerebral player and has the skills to back it up. I expect my stance to change over the next 12 months but as of now for me its Parker over Wiggins.

[Double Helix]

I'm more tempted than I normally would be due to the strength at the top despite how sick I am of losing after spending 6 years watching this team miss the playoffs.

Man, I wish we had timed this better. I wish we had been in the playoffs up until the Jonas draft so that sucking again wouldn't seem so painful.

Thinking about another bleak winter of horrible basketball while Leafs fans run wild with Stanley Cup talk is beyond painful to imagine. If when I saw Wiggins I saw Lebron and there was some kind of guarantee that we would get him for the short term pain I could get on board but 7 years is a long time to spend watching and supporting a non-playoff NBA team.

I don't see MLSE doing it.

[D.Brasco]

I'm more tempted than I normally would be due to the strength at the top despite how sick I am of losing after spending 6 years watching this team miss the playoffs.

Man, I wish we had timed this better. I wish we had been in the playoffs up until the Jonas draft so that sucking again wouldn't seem so painful.

Thinking about another bleak winter of horrible basketball while Leafs fans run wild with Stanley Cup talk is beyond painful to imagine. If when I saw Wiggins I saw Lebron and there was some kind of guarantee that we would get him for the short term pain I could get on board but 7 years is a long time to spend watching and supporting a non-playoff NBA team.

I don't see MLSE doing it.

A successful leafs team compared to the raptors would just add fuel to the fire of those who think the raptors are irrelevant on the toronto sports scene. Not to mention the late winter/early spring period where even the jays will start getting more attention.

[MEDIC]

I don't see us doing it. Sorry, folks. The only way we get a bottom 3 pick in next year's draft is if we trade for one and it's hard to imagine any team wanting to tank for us in a good draft not wanting Jonas as the centerpiece.

The other problem is that teams that have already won the #1 pick rarely trade it on draft day. They know that their fans have already grown attached to the name at the top when there's a clear-cut favorite. In fact, I can't remember the last time a #1 was traded and announced at the draft.

He's not going to be as good as Lebron or Durant anyway. He's not the ball-handler or passer that James was and he's not 6'11 like Durant.

Agreed. He may prove me wrong (I hope so), but at this point he looks nowhere near the prospect that Lebron was. I don't see him being as good as a prospect as D-Wade, Kobe, or KD either.

We'll know a hell of a lot more watching Kansas games this season.

I hope he has the work ethic to get there, but there have been a few red flags based on some of the things I've read.

Not hating on the guy. I just think people have to temper expectations. Coming out of Highschool Rudy Gay was as highly touted (if not more). Harrison Barnes as well.

[Kabookalu]

He's not going to be as good as Lebron or Durant anyway. He's not the ball-handler or passer that James was and he's not 6'11 like Durant. Yes, he's the most hyped prospect since Lebron but if he wasn't Canadian we'd all be scrutinizing harder, especially after witnessing a guy like Harrison Barnes go from being the clear cut best prospect in HS basketball to just a good player in the NCAA. A lot of the hype stems from how good he was at a young age. What's his greatest single attribute as a SF? Nobody can really seem to answer that question. He's above average at most things and will unquestionably be a good SF but will he become a transformative NBA player the way Lebron or KD have? I don't see the one thing that will separate him from Bron, KD, George and Mello that makes him truly special. He's a scorer that can block shots and rebound. To me, at 6'7-6'8 that sounds like a more efficient Rudy Gay or Paul George type. I think he'll be a better version of that type of SF. Still going to be a top 5 SF but I think the hype is a bit much based on where he's from and how long we've known him. His handle and court vision aren't anywhere near as special as Lebron's were at the same age and his height is simply the new standard for the position. He relies a lot on his jumper.

It's true that Wiggins is nowhere near LeBron as a playmaker and handler at the same age but then again neither was Durant. I recall there were some concerns about Durant's game not translating because of his lack of ballhandling and he would simply be a bigger Reggie Miller. Through sheer hard word and determination Durant has evolved to becoming one of the most deadliest players with the ball. I think Wiggins has the work ethic to follow in the same footsteps as his idol.

I know the concept has become fictitious here in Raptorland due to all the failure but Wiggins has "it" imo, a superstar passion for basketball. He loves the game and is humble almost to a fault. He doesn't have that killer instinct but then again he's never been challenged because of how dominant he has been so far, that will be cleared up in college.