The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2)

Mutnt · Post #1101 » by **Mutnt** » Thu May 16, 2013 1:48 am

What's up with LeBron's finishing around the rim this series? He's been atrocious for any standard, especially on the move. I know he's getting mugged in there and kudos to him for still attacking but some of the layups he is missing are just nowhere near close. He needs to gain some confidence in his mid-range game too, the Pacers are going to be a lot tougher than the Bulls.

rjchpd · Post #1102 » by **rjchpd** » Thu May 16, 2013 1:48 am

Not a bad performance. Seemed gassed in the fourth quarter.

TheChosen618 · Post #1103 » by **TheChosen618** » Thu May 16, 2013 1:48 am

Lebron has not been good this post-season. I think his 2012 post-season will be considered better than this one since he was good in every game of that post-season run. He has had too many disappointing games so far this post-season.

thebottomline · Post #1104 » by **thebottomline** » Thu May 16, 2013 1:57 am

Problem with his drives is they're so predictable right now. Usually late in the clock, starting from behind the arc, with no movement from the rest of the Heat, and the Bulls were good at forcing him into difficult angles or just fouled him.

nikomCH · Post #1105 » by **nikomCH** » Thu May 16, 2013 1:57 am

It would be fitting if they have to face the Pacers next round and then the Grizzlies in the Finals. Since none of the teams the Heat have had to face are really going to be that good at least they'll all be super tough defensively.

toodles23 · Post #1106 » by **toodles23** » Thu May 16, 2013 1:58 am

Yeah, definitely not a strong game for Lebron. His finishing really was awful in this series, I don't know what was up with that. Jumper was off for the whole series too. Hope he turns his shot making around, but it's only going to get tougher against the Pacers.

OnlyOneWay2Play · Post #1107 » by **OnlyOneWay2Play** » Thu May 16, 2013 1:59 am

Yup, I echo all your thoughts. To generate scoring consistently in the half-court you have to do at least one of three things well:

(1) Make quick moves off the dribble drive and then be able to explosively elevate to finish at the rim (e.g. Westbrook)

(2) Knock down mid-range and 3-point jumpers at a good % (e.g. prime Paul Pierce)

(3) Use post moves and body positioning to score down low with your back to the basket (e.g. ZBo)

(Notice that the best offensive players in the game do two of the three above very well: Durant and Curry do (1) and (2), while prime Duncan was (2) and (3) )

LeBron currently does not excel at any of these skills. Of course he used to be elite at (1) but he has lost the ability to elevate and finish at the rim and/or completely shake his man of the dribble (from combination of age + weight gain). So he needs to be able to either hit jumpers or score in the post. Or he won't be a consistently elite offensive player. It's that simple.

Last year LeBron's jumper was inconsistent in the playoffs, but when he absolutely needed it in Game 6 Boston, he had (2). And in much of the Indiana series I think the key was (3), especially the high post; I think he needs to get back to catching in the high post and either shooting the 15-footer or dribbling once or twice and attacking the rim with short floaters and hooks.

Rasho_libre · Post #1108 » by **Rasho_libre** » Thu May 16, 2013 2:05 am

Guys hell be fine. He was better finishing all season compared to the last two years. I expect him to return back to normal next series.

TheChosen618 · Post #1109 » by **TheChosen618** » Thu May 16, 2013 2:10 am

I would say 2013 Lebron has some parallels with 2010 Lebron. Both should have been unanimous for MVP. Both of them put less effort on the defensive end compared to their last season. I would say the playoff performances are similar as well. This Bulls series really reminded me of Lebron vs. the Celtics in 2010. His jumper being off and him just simply not playing well. Of course, people like to make stuff up and say he quit or faked an elbow injury or whatever in that series. The only difference is that Lebron finally has help and if he doesn't play very well, they can still win.

I'm starting to like 2012 Lebron over 2013 Lebron, anyone have any thoughts on this?

JordansBulls · Post #1110 » by **JordansBulls** » Thu May 16, 2013 2:24 am

Kinda shocked Lebron only shot around 45% FG in this series vs the Bulls. Butler defense on him has been great.

Rasho_libre · Post #1111 » by **Rasho_libre** » Thu May 16, 2013 2:30 am

Yup butler defense was great on him. I kinda disagree with chosen there. Lebron d has beeb the best ive seen from him, especially in the playoffs. He is giving an insane amount if effort on that end. One of the reasons he might have struggled scoring the ball this series. The playoffs will start now for him and i expect to see regular season lebron/ with post season defense. I can guarantee you we will see his best basketball these upcomng series, an perhaps the finals

Greatness · Post #1112 » by **Greatness** » Thu May 16, 2013 2:46 am

Every series is potentially bringing a great perimeter defender. Last year he got melo, granger, pierce and Durant. This year mbah a moute, butler, George and potentially Leonard/prince.

TheChosen618 · Post #1113 » by **TheChosen618** » Thu May 16, 2013 2:49 am

Rasho_libre wrote:Yup butler defense was great on him. I kinda disagree with chosen there. Lebron d has beeb the best ive seen from him, especially in the playoffs. He is giving an insane amount if effort on that end. One of the reasons he might have struggled scoring the ball this series. The playoffs will start now for him and i expect to see regular season lebron/ with post season defense. I can guarantee you we will see his best basketball these upcomng series, an perhaps the finals

His defense in the post-season has been better than it was in the regular season when he was coasting, but it is still not as good as it last season. He just isn't playing with the same intensity and effort on that end.

What I find most annoying about Lebron this season is how he cherry picks and doesn't even bother going for the rebound at times or his opponent getting the offensive rebound and his man is wide open because of it.

I don't know how you can say he is giving an insane amount of effort on that end, especially since he makes Battier guards the bigs instead, although that might fall under the coach's fault, not his.

IG2 · Post #1114 » by **IG2** » Thu May 16, 2013 2:55 am

TheChosen618 wrote: I think his 2012 post-season will be considered better than this one since he was good in every game of that post-season run.

He had better stats last postseason, sure, but he wasn't facing anywhere close to the defensive pressure he has done in these playoffs. Teams have correctly recognized that he's a much bigger threat on the court now, especially off the dribble, and have essentially returned to the old Cleveland defense - overloading the strong side, always shading hard and basically making sure he's never going to the basket with momentum. He didn't face anything resembling this the last 2 postseasons. Seriously, go watch the 2012 ECF against Boston and follow it up with the 2010 ECS against the exact same team. The difference between how LeBron's guarded in those series' is a joke.

Anyway, one thing LeBron clearly has to do better though is be a much willing jump shooter - something that's been an issue his entire career. He makes it all worse by continuing to do it off-the-dribble against this type of D. He can occasionally get away with it on Miami because he actually plays with talent now, but he'll need to have some truly big games soon in these playoffs for Miami to win and an approach like today's won't cut it. Shoot. The. Ball.

Rasho_libre · Post #1115 » by **Rasho_libre** » Thu May 16, 2013 2:57 am

TheChosen618 wrote:
Rasho_libre wrote:Yup butler defense was great on him. I kinda disagree with chosen there. Lebron d has beeb the best ive seen from him, especially in the playoffs. He is giving an insane amount if effort on that end. One of the reasons he might have struggled scoring the ball this series. The playoffs will start now for him and i expect to see regular season lebron/ with post season defense. I can guarantee you we will see his best basketball these upcomng series, an perhaps the finals

His defense in the post-season has been better than it was in the regular season when he was coasting, but it is still not as good as it last season. He just isn't playing with the same intensity and effort on that end.

What I find most annoying about Lebron this season is how he cherry picks and doesn't even bother going for the rebound at times or his opponent getting the offensive rebound and his man is wide open because of it.

I don't know how you can say he is giving an insane amount of effort on that end, especially since he makes Battier guards the bigs instead, although that might fall under the coach's fault, not his.

Only reason battier is guarding the bigs is because lebrons is needed on jimmy butler/belli. I havnet once seen belli or butler beat him in a 1 on 1 matchup. Next seres we will see him at the 4 more defending west etc.

Rasho_libre · Post #1116 » by **Rasho_libre** » Thu May 16, 2013 3:00 am

IG2 wrote:
TheChosen618 wrote: I think his 2012 post-season will be considered better than this one since he was good in every game of that post-season run.

He had better stats last postseason, sure, but he wasn't facing anywhere close to the defensive pressure he has done in these playoffs. Teams have correctly recognized that he's a much bigger threat on the court now, especially off the dribble, and have essentially returned to the old Cleveland defense - overloading the strong side, always shading hard and basically making sure he's never going to the basket with momentum. He didn't face anything resembling this the last 2 postseasons. Seriously, go watch the 2012 ECF against Boston and follow it up with the 2010 ECS against the exact same team. The difference between how LeBron's guarded in those series' is a joke.

Anyway, one thing LeBron clearly has to do better though is be a much willing jump shooter - something that's been an issue his entire career. He makes it all worse by continuing to do it off-the-dribble against this type of D. He can occasionally get away with it on Miami because he actually plays with talent now, but he'll need to have some truly big games soon in these playoffs for Miami to win and an approach like today's won't cut it. Shoot. The. Ball.

Totally agree. Teams are defending him differently from last year. Watch the way indy and especially defended him last year. Youre right he has to shoot it in those scenarios

TheChosen618 · Post #1117 » by **TheChosen618** » Thu May 16, 2013 3:02 am

IG2 wrote:He had better stats last postseason, sure, but he wasn't facing anywhere close to the defensive pressure he has done in these playoffs. Teams have correctly recognized that he's a much bigger threat on the court now, especially off the dribble, and have essentially returned to the old Cleveland defense - overloading the strong side, always shading hard and basically making sure he's never going to the basket with momentum. He didn't face anything resembling this the last 2 postseasons. Seriously, go watch the 2012 ECF against Boston and follow it up with the 2010 ECS against the exact same team. The difference between how LeBron's guarded in those series' is a joke.

All of this you said is true. He is definitely getting more defensive attention than he did last season and he also is playing against much better defensive teams. The defenses he faced last season were not exactly impressive. Although, if he were guarded by Paul George, it would have been different, but he had been guarded by Granger for most of the series.

I'm not really blaming Lebron for being passive on offense because he made great decisions in the Bulls series, not so much in the Bucks series though and all those turnovers.

Anyway, one thing LeBron clearly has to do better though is be a much willing jump shooter - something that's been an issue his entire career. He makes it all worse by continuing to do it off-the-dribble against this type of D. He can occasionally get away with it on Miami because he actually plays with talent now, but he'll need to have some truly big games soon in these playoffs for Miami to win and an approach like today's won't cut it. Shoot. The. Ball.

I agree with this too.

Rasho_libre wrote:Only reason battier is guarding the bigs is because lebrons is needed on jimmy butler/belli. I havnet once seen belli or butler beat him in a 1 on 1 matchup. Next seres we will see him at the 4 more defending west etc.

Butler and Bellinelli can't beat anyone, so I'm not sure how those two not being able to beat Lebron is suppose to be impressive.

I hope Lebron defends West more, even then I'll doubt it. Battier guarded West in the final games of last season's ECSF. This is mainly because Lebron complained about defending West and playing the PF being too "taxing." He did defend other PFs in the ECF and Finals though, like Bass and Ibaka, but that's probably because that was an easier job than defending Pierce and Durant.

Still, I don't think it is asking too much for him to guard Taj Gibson.

PCProductions · Post #1118 » by **PCProductions** » Thu May 16, 2013 3:41 am

Though I completely agree about Lebron facing stronger defenses, I feel like he's been pretty indecisive on offense. He sometimes will just pound the rock for 10+ secs while threatening his defender to give him space/bite his shot and it ends up in a predictable and unsuccessful drive to the hoop. Other times he'll force a bad pass because he drove and got overloaded in the lane. Credit the defense, but Lebron needs to make quicker decisions, if you ask me.

therealbig3 · Post #1119 » by **therealbig3** » Thu May 16, 2013 6:07 am

I can see LeBron having a pretty monster series against Indiana. Hibbert is slow and can't really defend the PnR all that great, and LeBron/Wade abused him last year because of this. George guarding LeBron will make things tougher on him for sure, but I think LeBron will do well.

He needs to stop being so passive though, and like others have said, make quicker decisions and not be so hesitant to take the jumper when it's there.

SideshowBob · Post #1120 » by **SideshowBob** » Thu May 16, 2013 6:23 am

PCProductions wrote:Though I completely agree about Lebron facing stronger defenses, I feel like he's been pretty indecisive on offense. He sometimes will just pound the rock for 10+ secs while threatening his defender to give him space/bite his shot and it ends up in a predictable and unsuccessful drive to the hoop. Other times he'll force a bad pass because he drove and got overloaded in the lane. Credit the defense, but Lebron needs to make quicker decisions, if you ask me.

As I've already said, I think he's been quite impressive so far, but you've basically summarized the biggest issue I've had with him so far. His decision making with the ball has been good, but could be crisper, and quicker. I feel like he's unnecessarily making possessions difficult by not doing this which is baffling because this is exactly what was so impressive in his strong stretches in the RS (and we were seeing this against all kinds of defenses, good and bad).