Why play making point guards are overrated?

[Vindicater]

So what you're saying is...

That in a game that for its entire history has preached the mantra "You can't teach height"...

That the typically smallest player on the court has not been the most successful.

Well paint me confused...

[dho4ever]

I've said it a million times before, and I'll say it again. In order to build a championship team you need to either build around a star SG or C.

All the other players on the team just need to be complimentary pieces.

PF should just focus on rebounding and defense, they don't need to be a scorer
SF should be jack of all trades, solid perimeter defender and decent scorer (low to mid teens)
PG should be able to be average defender, pass and hit an open shot.

Look at almost every championship team and they either had a star SG or C.

With the rise in small ball over the past few years though this is all beginning to change as positional play is becoming less and less important.

I still think you are basing this too much on teams ran by Phil Jackson, where he just happened to have the most dominant center of all time and the most dominant player of all time (SG). At the same time, his offense tends to support the cast that you mentioned.

Your SF (Jack of all trades) is pippen, odom, and to a lesser extend sometimes Kobe
Your PF is Rodman, Gasol,
PG is Fisher, Harper, etc...

In analyzing the non-phil jackson championships

The 80s had the Celtics vs the Lakers, where there isn't much to analyze into what position is the most important since you had 2 of the greatest players of all time and each had a very stacked team.

In the analying all the non-phil jackson victories

2003: Greatest Power Forward of all time. Great Coach. Poor supporting cast, but Duncan was just too good that year.
2004: One of the best defenses of all time, where all 5 players bought into the system.
2005: Ginobli (MVP?) also prime Duncan. <--this fits the star SG + star Center
2006: Shaq and Wade. Not exactly Shaq and Kobe as Shaq wasn't quit good. Wade did go into God Mode/Ref Mode however you want to remember it
2007: Parker, Ginobli, Duncan.. also fits the pattern.
2008: Doc Rivers and the Big 3: HoF talent with Thibs defense
2011: Dirk + Role Players
2012: Maybe the greatest small forward of all time.

In each of these non-phil teams, I don't think there's a clear pattern as to what position is the best to build around. It may seem that the big man is important, but this could also be skewed by the fact that this era contains some of the best big men of all time (Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, and Dirk).


Similarly, in today's era if Lebron wins some championships and then Durant wins a couple(who is theoretically the second best player in the game), I don't think that's an indicator that the SF position is the best position to build around, when that's just what the talent pool contains/

[An Unbiased Fan]

The need for a playmaking PG is overrated, BUT you do need a playmaker. Think about this, MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, can all playmake for their teams. Houston had Cassell, Detroit had Billups, Dirk had Nash/Kidd.

Once you had a 6'9 Magic, and point-forwards like Bird emerge, the notion that you need a traditional PG started to decline.

[tsherkin]

Once you had a 6'9 Magic, and point-forwards like Bird emerge, the notion that you need a traditional PG started to decline.

That notion was outdated before it existed. Cousy, Oscar and West were not traditional points either, or at least not the same kind of per-minute, low-shot assist factories people like to call playmakers.

[GeneralNbaFan]

Scoring was the most overrated part in Bbal, right now its the most underrated.

[Deus]

Many of them are hurt at the moment. Rose, Westbrook, Rondo. But if your talking about Deron and CP3 then yeah, I'd say they are over-rated somewhat. Especially Deron Williams.

Parker is still showing he is elite. Conley could show he's elite if he can beat him in the WCF.

[Vader]

Scoring PG >>> play making PG.

[sabonis]

Here's the problem with your argument... Every Phil Jackson coached team ran the triangle and the triangle doesn't rely on play making from the PG position... they don't handle the ball a lot... the guys who did handle the ball were what I called de facto PG's because they did everything PG's normally do in traditional systems.. Kobe, Mike, and Scottie all handled the ball and ran the offenses.. that's 11 of the 20 championship teams right there.

James you have to admit is the primary ball handler and play maker on the Miami team the way Wade was when the Heat won their first championship and Wade ran the point a lot at Marquette.. he knows how to take on the responsibilities. That's 2 more right there. And Rondo orchestrated the Celtics offense, sorry.. there's another one. Throw in Billups and there's 1 more. I'll let Parker slide even though his ability to score made the other parts of the job which he wasn't exactly great at much easier for him.

What you sound like you're trying to do is disparage the position which I think is ignorant if you just take those championship teams you ran off and go back and watch them again... you'll see that the PG's on those teams weren't just the smallest players.

wow. just wow....

do any of these things you listed change the fact that there were no ball dominant, play making point guards involved in any championship? No. So your argument is invalid.

and a HUGE HUGE LOL for Rondo erchestrating the 2008 Celtics offense. I think you confuse that Rondo with the Rondo in the last 3 years

so yeah, point guards on championship teams in the last 20 years were all role players except maybe Billups and that's because they had no superstar (which is a unique formula on its own). Of course by "role player", I mean not 1st option and mostly not even the 2nd option on offense.

[picc]

Its less the position itself than the smaller size and stature of those playing it. A 6'7 wing with point guard skills will usually be harder to stop than a 6'1 guard with point guard skills.

[moocow007]

So the moral of the story is that if you have one of the top 2-3 players in the NBA...who also have to be better than many teams starting point guards in running a team...then you don't really need a top notch PG to win a championship?

[sabonis]

yeah the thing is you don't want your PG to dominate the ball, you want your superstar SG to dominate the ball and create plays and score a bunch.