Harden who?

[wiff]

I don't think Wiff realizes that James Harden is the next great SG, and that OKC could have had arguably the best PG, SG, and SF in the league.

Well "you" could argue that point and "you" would be wrong. None of those guys are the best at their position. Not yet anyway.

13-16/7rbs/11ast/35pts. Putting up 27ppg on 60ts% and has Houston in the 5th spot in the West. Harden has as good an argument as Wade or Kobe for being the number one SG in the league.

He was the second best talent on OKC's roster, is proving himself better than Westbrook and significantly better than Ibaka, has a long future as an elite top 5 talent, and trading him was a mistake.

To me Kobe is still the champ, he holds the belt for the best SG in the league. Harden might be close but if you want to be the champ you need to have clear proof. He hasn't done enough to earn the belt.

And the other two? Yeah that's what I thought.

They are both amazing but NONE of those guys are the best at their positions.

[Flash4thewin]

Id say wait for the playoffs to see where the team goes because its a team game.

I forgot who said it but if the thunder wanted to trade for Harden now it would cost them Durrant or Westbrook and Westbrook is on the iffy side. That should tell you all you need to know about Harden and his trade value

[gordito]

Let's see who steps up to bail the team out during the playoffs if Westbrook and Durant are off their games.

You mean like last year in game 4 of the conference finals when the Thunder were on the brink of being swept by the Spurs and Ibaka went 11 for 11 from the field?

Is that what you mean by stepping up?

Thoughts on this? Just curious, since your savior Kevin Martin hasn't been getting it done thus far.

[wiff]

Let's see who steps up to bail the team out during the playoffs if Westbrook and Durant are off their games.

You mean like last year in game 4 of the conference finals when the Thunder were on the brink of being swept by the Spurs and Ibaka went 11 for 11 from the field?

Is that what you mean by stepping up?

Thoughts on this? Just curious, since your savior Kevin Martin hasn't been getting it done thus far.

The first thought that comes to mind is, "are you really that dumb"? Go back and read this thread from beginning to end. It's never been about KMart vs Harden. It has ALWAYS been about keeping Ibaka over Harden.

And considering without Ibaka this team would have very little up front. It makes perfect sense to keep him over a third wing player that you would have had to pay the max for which would have left a gaping hole in the center.

In a nut shell.
Ibaka cheaper than Harden.
Harden wouldn't have gotten the touches in OKC to blossom the way he has in Houston.
Defense wins rings, along with good offense. But you can't have all "O" and no "D". Ibaka anchors the middle.
In Hardens absence Durant has gotten better.

The only person who is making this about Harden vs KMart is you. Everyone knows KMart isn't the player Harden is.

[gordito]

You mean like last year in game 4 of the conference finals when the Thunder were on the brink of being swept by the Spurs and Ibaka went 11 for 11 from the field?

Is that what you mean by stepping up?

Thoughts on this? Just curious, since your savior Kevin Martin hasn't been getting it done thus far.

The first thought that comes to mind is, "are you really that dumb"? Go back and read this thread from beginning to end. It's never been about KMart vs Harden. It has ALWAYS been about keeping Ibaka over Harden.

And considering without Ibaka this team would have very little up front. It makes perfect sense to keep him over a third wing player that you would have had to pay the max for which would have left a gaping hole in the center.

In a nut shell.
Ibaka cheaper than Harden.
Harden wouldn't have gotten the touches in OKC to blossom the way he has in Houston.
Defense wins rings, along with good offense. But you can't have all "O" and no "D". Ibaka anchors the middle.
In Hardens absence Durant has gotten better.

The only person who is making this about Harden vs KMart is you. Everyone knows KMart isn't the player Harden is.

In the playoffs, Ibaka is looking like the same Ibaka from last year (only marginally improved) and Martin has yet to show up. No one is arguing the economics (or any other random factor) of keeping Harden. It was simply, whether OKC got better or worse.

I said they will miss him come playoff time when guys like Martin disappear, and right now, that couldn't be more true.

Not to mention, Ibaka jumps on a ridiculous amount of pump fakes, so he's not doing the greatest job at anchoring the defense. Besides, if OKC went ahead and traded him instead, you're telling me they wouldn't have been able to find another defensive anchor of his caliber? You're acting as if Kevin Martin was the only asset for sale.

[Chalky White]

You mean like last year in game 4 of the conference finals when the Thunder were on the brink of being swept by the Spurs and Ibaka went 11 for 11 from the field?

Is that what you mean by stepping up?

Thoughts on this? Just curious, since your savior Kevin Martin hasn't been getting it done thus far.

The first thought that comes to mind is, "are you really that dumb"? Go back and read this thread from beginning to end. It's never been about KMart vs Harden. It has ALWAYS been about keeping Ibaka over Harden.

And considering without Ibaka this team would have very little up front. It makes perfect sense to keep him over a third wing player that you would have had to pay the max for which would have left a gaping hole in the center.

In a nut shell.
Ibaka cheaper than Harden.
Harden wouldn't have gotten the touches in OKC to blossom the way he has in Houston.
Defense wins rings, along with good offense. But you can't have all "O" and no "D". Ibaka anchors the middle.
In Hardens absence Durant has gotten better.

The only person who is making this about Harden vs KMart is you. Everyone knows KMart isn't the player Harden is.

Ibaka isn't the player Harden is neither.

Harden wouldn't have gotten the touches in OKC to blossom as he has in Houston because your coach is terrible. James Harden looked like a star last season besides. Chris Bosh doesn't get the touches in Miami that he got in Toronto. Ask him which he prefers.

Ibaka could probably anchor the middle if he had some solid coaching on positioning, footwork, and discipline with his shot-blocking. But as he currently is, if he isn't blocking shots, his defense leaves a lot to be desired.

K-Mart is just straight trash. Worse than the package Orlando got for Howard, and Harden was a better player this season.

[sonictecture]

The entire, "an average starting power forward is harder to replace than an emerging star that is willing playing a sixth man role" has never made any sense. Presti traded Harden because he wanted to trade Harden. Presti was aware of how good Harden was and would become and knew he would never get completely equal value in a trade, but the core principle of how Presti built the team was sustainability.

Presti could have found a way to resign Harden, but it would have jeopardized the long term sustainability of the team.

Presti clearly values the dynamic that big men bring to the team, but he also ensures Brooks can play small, adapt to opposing line ups or create mismatches with his roster.

Trading Harden was not something I believed in doing, but Presti certainly earned the right to make the decision. What does it say about a GM who stands by his principles, knowing that he will take criticism for "losing" a trade?

[gordito]

Let's see who steps up to bail the team out during the playoffs if Westbrook and Durant are off their games.

You mean like last year in game 4 of the conference finals when the Thunder were on the brink of being swept by the Spurs and Ibaka went 11 for 11 from the field?

Is that what you mean by stepping up?

Have your thoughts changed since two weeks ago? Harden who?

[Bruteque]

K-Mart is just straight trash.

60.8 TS% 42.6 3P% for the season is not straight trash. He doesn't move the entire defense the way Harden does, but straight trash he also is not.

[rugbyrugger23]

The mistake Presti made was not trading Harden AND Ibaka. He should have packaged them together for a surefire All-star and third member of OKC Big 3.

The name that got floated most of the time was Kevin Love (ideally trade completed 2 seasons ago). That would have been such a perfect win-win trade for both teams.

Wolves would have landed perfect SG next to Rubio (Harden) and perfect PF next to emerging Pekovic (Ibaka).

OKC would've had Love-Westbrook-Durant big three, and I am sure such a trade would have required Wolves to send D. Williams (recent #2 pick still with decent trade value) to a third team for SG or C of OKC choice.

Cap numbers would have been 3 max players (affordable due to being 2nd contract max numbers, so 43ish), Sef, player acquired for DWill, Perkins (or amnestied), exception contracts, then role players and rookies.

[sonictecture]

The mistake Presti made was not trading Harden AND Ibaka. He should have packaged them together for a surefire All-star and third member of OKC Big 3.

The name that got floated most of the time was Kevin Love (ideally trade completed 2 seasons ago). That would have been such a perfect win-win trade for both teams.

Wolves would have landed perfect SG next to Rubio (Harden) and perfect PF next to emerging Pekovic (Ibaka).

OKC would've had Love-Westbrook-Durant big three, and I am sure such a trade would have required Wolves to send D. Williams (recent #2 pick still with decent trade value) to a third team for SG or C of OKC choice.

Cap numbers would have been 3 max players (affordable due to being 2nd contract max numbers, so 43ish), Sef, player acquired for DWill, Perkins (or amnestied), exception contracts, then role players and rookies.

Technically Harden was the sure fire all star in 2013 and Love spent most of the season injured.

As we've seen in OKC and Miami if you have three top talents one will have to sacrifice their touches and numbers. For OKC it was Harden and for Miami it is Bosh. So who would sacrifice between Durant, Westbrook and Love? Considering the defensive limitations of Love, what would be the point in getting a watered down version of him for max money?

In my view Presti made a mistake by trading Harden instead of Ibaka, but he also made a mistake in trading Harden a season too early.