I want Detroit to draft Shabazz

[coolness]

Crabbe's gotta be moving up the board. Wasn't he a possible 38th pick?

[theBigLip]

Age - being 20 is a big issue. It isn't in terms of other draft picks being 20, but it is when all of Shabazz's work to this point has been inflated. Of course he will be a bit more physically dominant as a 19 year old senior beating up on younger kids. It was more impressive when we thought they were the same age.

[Piston Pete]

Crabbe's gotta be moving up the board. Wasn't he a possible 38th pick?

I think he was always late 1st-ish - like 18-30ish

I think in his combine interview, he said he liked comparisons of himself to Allan Houston.

[Piston Pete]

Shabazz didn't participate in Day 2 of the Combine?? Bummer. No agility/vertical/etc results for him....

[DetroitDon15]

I don't agree with either of these points. 20 is still young. He is one year older than previously thought. I am ok with that. I think he can be athletic enough but at 6'6" I think he can gaurd SFs if need be in a small line-up allah Paul Pierce who is 6'6". I am hoping Shabazz can be another PP and i'd be happy. He's a perfect fit for us. He address our biggest need which is primeter scoring.

I never considered the Paul Pierce comparison. Pierce's rookie line was 16PPG 44% FG, 41% 3pt, 2.4 assists, 6.4 rebounds on a 23% usage rate.

I could see Shabazz putting up similar numbers as a rookie. His rebounding would probably be lower, considering he would have to compete to get boards from not only the other team, but from Moose and Dre.

But, I'm not downplaying how damn good Pierce has been over his career. He came into the league as a gunner, and expanded his entire game. Excellent footwork, leadership, marksman shooting, and developed a great all-around game, mostly out of necessity because he was on some truly awful Celtics teams until the "Big 3" trade happened.

I won't go as far to say that Shabazz could be a future Paul Pierce, but I think he's well worth the risk with the 7th pick in this draft.

I've always viewed him as a smaller 3 than a 2. I'd be happy if he played either. I just think we need a guy who can be a high reward pick like Drummond. The Knight pick seemed to have been a fail (with what he is expected to be, ie PG of the future) but I'm willing to risk it on Muhammed. He has 20 PPG potential and number one option ceiling. Problems aside, I make that pick. I think I'm lookin too much at Drummond with this one.

[Goldtop]

Has there ever been a player stuck between a 2 and a 3? I've never seen it as an issue in the NBA. Stuck players are between the 1/2 and 3/4. Our best perimeter defender would be our 3. They guard the best 2/3. Shabazz playing theb2 makes us so dangerous.

Agreed. The 2/3 tweener is like the 4/5 tweener. Both are non-issues. In fact, its actually a plus if a player can play both the 2&3 or 4&5. They are interchangeable positions today, and if you can play both it shows versatility which is a good thing.

The 1/2 and 3/4 are totally different.

[theBigLip]

Shabazz didn't participate in Day 2 of the Combine?? Bummer. No agility/vertical/etc results for him....

Was just going to post it. He may be strong, but he has been described as not that athletic, so I don't think his numbers would have compared very well.

[Goldtop]

Shabazz didn't participate in Day 2 of the Combine?? Bummer. No agility/vertical/etc results for him....

Was just going to post it. He may be strong, but he has been described as not that athletic, so I don't think his numbers would have compared very well.

Thats odd. I thought all players were required to participate in all testing. I thought it was the drills/practice stuff that was voluntary.

Its weird that he volunteered to do thre drills when no one else did, and then refused to do the testing when everyone else did.

Probably after all the negative stuff that was said about his day yesterday, his ppl didn't want to him doing any further damage to his stock.

[detroitKG]

Shabazz is actually out there right now testing on agility and what not lol said he just didn't do the drills because of a hip injury..

[Kilo]

This kid is going to plummet like Perry Jones.

[theBigLip]

More from the combine:

NBA.com's Scott Howard-Cooper spoke to several front office executives and all said it's possible Muhammad could drop out of the Top-10.

“It’s his overall attitude,” one of the executives said. “His presentation of himself. It’s an all-about-me presentation. I think that’s his biggest knock…. His selfish tendencies on the floor show up at certain times. But that’s what scorers do.”

[c-dot]

More from the combine around measurements:

Small forwards
As far as small forwards go, Otto Porter was big, measuring 6-7.5 in socks and 6-8.5 in shoes. He has a very long 7-1.5 wing.

Of notable concern, Shabazz Muhammad was much smaller, measuring just 6-4.75 in socks and 6-6.25 in shoes. He does have a 6-11 wingspan. However, another general manager seemed very troubled by this revelation.

"It's a problem. If you're on the fence about him, this could push you off," the GM said. "As a shot-creator, size matters. Especially with the length of the new wave of small forwards like Paul George. His wingspan helps, but only if he plays defense. And he doesn't."

As a comparison, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist measured 6-7.5 in shoes with a 7-foot wingspan.

Smoke blowing season has begun!

We've known Bazz was 6'6 all year, this is no surprise. And that last cheap shot about his defense, whats the point of a GM to bash a player like that? If you don't like him don't draft him. It seems like he doesn't want someone else to draft him.

[ImHeisenberg]

More from the combine around measurements:

Small forwards
As far as small forwards go, Otto Porter was big, measuring 6-7.5 in socks and 6-8.5 in shoes. He has a very long 7-1.5 wing.

Of notable concern, Shabazz Muhammad was much smaller, measuring just 6-4.75 in socks and 6-6.25 in shoes. He does have a 6-11 wingspan. However, another general manager seemed very troubled by this revelation.

"It's a problem. If you're on the fence about him, this could push you off," the GM said. "As a shot-creator, size matters. Especially with the length of the new wave of small forwards like Paul George. His wingspan helps, but only if he plays defense. And he doesn't."

As a comparison, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist measured 6-7.5 in shoes with a 7-foot wingspan.

Smoke blowing season has begun!

We've known Bazz was 6'6 all year, this is no surprise. And that last cheap shot about his defense, whats the point of a GM to bash a player like that? If you don't like him don't draft him. It seems like he doesn't want someone else to draft him.

There's a great point in bashing a player like Bazz. If you're drafting around 10 or 11, and you want him to drop to you. You then have an opportunity to have a 15-20PPG scorer on a dirt cheap contract for a good while.

Smoke blowing goes both ways, to inflate and deflate players. You don't think Boston wasn't drumming up negativity about Sullinger's back last summer? Now they have a legit scoring power forward for barely more than the veteran's minimum.

[c-dot]

More from the combine:

NBA.com's Scott Howard-Cooper spoke to several front office executives and all said it's possible Muhammad could drop out of the Top-10.

“It’s his overall attitude,” one of the executives said. “His presentation of himself. It’s an all-about-me presentation. I think that’s his biggest knock…. His selfish tendencies on the floor show up at certain times. But that’s what scorers do.”

Hmmm I wonder how many of those execs are picking out of the top 10

[MrBigShot]

6'6 with a 6'11 wingspan? He'll be fine. As long as he slims down and regains some of his quickness he had in high school. 230 lbs is not gonna cut it.

[Clarity]

Age - being 20 is a big issue. It isn't in terms of other draft picks being 20, but it is when all of Shabazz's work to this point has been inflated. Of course he will be a bit more physically dominant as a 19 year old senior beating up on younger kids. It was more impressive when we thought they were the same age.

seems like a bunch to do about nothing, he is 6'6, 220 lbs, 19 or 20, he will have the same impact w his size in the pros.

Has there ever been a player stuck between a 2 and a 3? I've never seen it as an issue in the NBA. Stuck players are between the 1/2 and 3/4. Our best perimeter defender would be our 3. They guard the best 2/3. Shabazz playing theb2 makes us so dangerous.

this is more where i'm leaning.

[Goldtop]

I found some troubling advanced stats on Shabazz in comparison to the other top perimeter prospects.

He's last in all 3 major categories, and by a wide margin.

PER

1. Burke: 28.7
2. Oladipo: 28.9
3. Porter: 27.3
4. Mclemore: 23.2
5. Shabazz 21.9

ORTG

1. Oladipo: 125.7
2. Burke: 123.4
3. Porter: 122.3
4. Mclemore: 121.4
5. Shabazz: 110.1

DRTG

1. Porter: 85.0
2. Oladipo: 86.9
3. Mclemore: 93.3
4. Burke: 99.1
5. Shabazz: 104.5

Going by these numbers, Oladipo and Porter look like the most complete players. And the numbers don't lie because they are clearly the best 2 way players just by watchig them.

What's troubling about Shabazz''s numbers is that his strength is supposed to be offense, yet he's last among the top prospects in both PER and Offensive Rating. Even Oladipo and Porter, who are supposed to be mostly defensive players grade out better than Shabazz in offensive stats. That's concerning to me.

Granted, you would expect him to be last given that the other 4 are expected to go before him. But still makes you wonder about taking him 7th

[Warspite]

I found some troubling advanced stats on Shabazz in comparison to the other top perimeter prospects.

He's last in all 3 major categories, and by a wide margin.

PER

1. Burke: 28.7
2. Oladipo: 28.9
3. Porter: 27.3
4. Mclemore: 23.2
5. Shabazz 21.9

ORTG

1. Oladipo: 125.7
2. Burke: 123.4
3. Porter: 122.3
4. Mclemore: 121.4
5. Shabazz: 110.1

DRTG

1. Porter: 85.0
2. Oladipo: 86.9
3. Mclemore: 93.3
4. Burke: 99.1
5. Shabazz: 104.5

Going by these numbers, Oladipo and Porter look like the most complete players. And the numbers don't lie because they are clearly the best 2 way players just by watchig them.

What's troubling about Shabazz''s numbers is that his strength is supposed to be offense, yet he's last among the top prospects in both PER and Offensive Rating. Even Oladipo and Porter, who are supposed to be mostly defensive players grade out better than Shabazz in offensive stats. That's concerning to me.

Granted, you would expect him to be last given that the other 4 are expected to go before him. But still makes you wonder about taking him 7th

Useing PER in NCAA? Ill bet Grinner has a better PER than any of them but I dont see her on your draft board. Porter played in the Big Least and every other player on that list had NBA teammates. Not to mention that UCLA didnt run an offense nor had any talent on it. If Shabazz went to UofM and played with Burke, Hardaway ect then his PER would look awsome. If he had gone to MSU his stats would look even worse than UCLA and he would still be in school.

He was asked to be a 1st option scorer and told to stay out of foul trouble and carry a poorly constructed team (supposed to play defense but didnt) that had no offense.

[Mr. Krabs]

^ Yes, he's not been efficient.

But also the other guys you mentioned had much better teams, Shabazz has a usage rate of 29.8, which is higher than all the others (only Burke gets close 28.3) and defenses focused on him. I think he will be fine and a very good fit if he becomes unselfish and learn to pass to our bigs.

[Goldtop]

I found some troubling advanced stats on Shabazz in comparison to the other top perimeter prospects.

He's last in all 3 major categories, and by a wide margin.

PER

1. Burke: 28.7
2. Oladipo: 28.9
3. Porter: 27.3
4. Mclemore: 23.2
5. Shabazz 21.9

ORTG

1. Oladipo: 125.7
2. Burke: 123.4
3. Porter: 122.3
4. Mclemore: 121.4
5. Shabazz: 110.1

DRTG

1. Porter: 85.0
2. Oladipo: 86.9
3. Mclemore: 93.3
4. Burke: 99.1
5. Shabazz: 104.5

Going by these numbers, Oladipo and Porter look like the most complete players. And the numbers don't lie because they are clearly the best 2 way players just by watchig them.

What's troubling about Shabazz''s numbers is that his strength is supposed to be offense, yet he's last among the top prospects in both PER and Offensive Rating. Even Oladipo and Porter, who are supposed to be mostly defensive players grade out better than Shabazz in offensive stats. That's concerning to me.

Granted, you would expect him to be last given that the other 4 are expected to go before him. But still makes you wonder about taking him 7th

Useing PER in NCAA? Ill bet Grinner has a better PER than any of them but I dont see her on your draft board. Porter played in the Big Least and every other player on that list had NBA teammates. Not to mention that UCLA didnt run an offense nor had any talent on it. If Shabazz went to UofM and played with Burke, Hardaway ect then his PER would look awsome. If he had gone to MSU his stats would look even worse than UCLA and he would still be in school.

He was asked to be a 1st option scorer and told to stay out of foul trouble and carry a poorly constructed team (supposed to play defense but didnt) that had no offense.

What is your excuse for his poor ORTG and DRTG?

I like Shabazz, but the fact that there seems to be soooo many doubters among NBA execs, and it seems like there needs to be some excuse to explain everything about him, eventually you start to wonder if you want to be the team to take on all these question marks by drafting him.

You could say there was similar doubts about Drummond, but I could tell Drummond was special the first time I saw him, and knew the doubters were wrong about him. I don't see that with Shabazz. I think he's going to be a good player at least, with potential to be great, but I don't see the greatness right now. Whereas I saw it immediately with Drummond.