Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV

[No-Man]

The problem with Wolters is the same as guys like Jeremy Lin, Vasquez, Calderon, Dragic... they're not good enough for handling the ball that much, and they're useless without the ball.

They're also liabilities on defense, so... yeah, I wouldn't want a player like unless they accept a clear back-up role, or my team is full of crap and I need somebody to put some order and stuff like that, for example, the Magic this year.

But they're not starters long-term, unless they change their games a lot.

I love Jackson, he's probably my favourite PG outside of Burke from this class, but he has limitations that would put him in a tough spot, he'll have some shiny moments, like Thomas, Barea or Robinson had, but he's clearly a back-up.

What separates Larkin from guys like Augustin? that actually have a better feel for the game than him, I don't know, I can see him as a good guy to have around, but he's weak, small, I don't know if he's going to be able to finish at the rim despite his athletic ability (Jackson is tougher even if he jumps less).

I just don't see it, for me all those guys are 2nd rounders in every draft because their flaws are way more difficult to surpass than other guys's.

[hands11]

Ok, I'm ready to project my #1.

I think come draft day, Trey Burke will be the consensus #1

I think its going to be between him, Otto and Len.

Otto will have the upside talk holding him back.
Len is injured.

Burke getting way to much props for his leadership and CP3 type comparisons. People will buy onto that.

And they're going to be disappointed when Burke turns into a good, but not great pro.

Oladipo is going to be a VASTLY SUPERIOR player over the long haul. Burke is a great shooter. He's got a nice step back move. He hits big shots. He is a natural leader. However, PG is the NBAs most deep positions IMO. Burke isn't going to outgun other PGs because he can't defend with the intensity or proficiency or toughness that Chris Paul does. Burke has a very refined offensive game but I don't see a destroyer in him like Chris Paul.

IMO there's NO WAY Burke should be the top pick. He's going to be a good pro but not a great pro. I say he's going to be like a Mo Williams/Mike Conley/Kyle Lowry kind of good PG.

First off, I wasn't saying he should, I was saying he would. I have already said I don't think any of these players is a clear #1 type.

But if you are a crap team without a PG or a leader, I think most would be happy with Mike Conley production in a Burke personality.

Good not great pro is pretty subjective and for the players ranked at the top 3 of this class, I think that is what is likely to be the description for who is picked there. There will be at least one very good player out of this class. There always is. As for great. I think what people view as great is very different.

To me great is HOF.

[The Consiglieri]

In reference to an earlier post on why on earth people would have Len higher than Zeller when Zeller was statistically better across the board, it's simple. People think Len has a chance to be something special. I think people feel that Zeller has fundamental limitations that preclude being something more than good. Teams always are more attracted to the possibility of greater things (even if a higher degree of failure rate) than sure things that are middling.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Geez CCJ, I usually agree with you, but I am not high on Crabbe at all. To me he looks a carbon copy of Nick Young.

And I am also at a loss on why Muscala is rated so much lower than Olynyk. Very similar, both are PF in the NBA, and to me Muscala looked more fluid and skilled at the combine than Olynyk, and has better length.

I keep hoping Muscala will be there for us at 37, but I doubt he lasts that long. I see him moving up as the draft gets closer.

Muscala is also a far, far better rebounder than Olynyk.

I'm just irrationally up on Crabbe because of the Price connection and what I think he's capable of, not what he did at Cal per se.

If I had to hang my hat on one or two players who I think are REALLY going to surprise, I would say Wolters and DJ Stephens. I also like, no matter how little press he gets, Zeke Marshall. I'm also looking forward to seeing what kind of pro Pierre Jackson will be. This draft has a lot of guys in round two projections, like Jackson, Isaiah Canaan, and Ray McCallum who look like they can be darned good contributors with the right team in the right system.

Wolters seems like a future starter to me. Can't see why he's rated so low, as well as Muscala.

I like those guys also, especially McCallum.

The combine really helped clear some things up for me though. It was eye opening seeing the players together and matched up against each other.

Adams really stood out to me. Considering his inexperience and background, I was impressed with how he carried himself. Came across confident and sure of himself, he just looks like a star player to me. He has an NBA ready body and strength. He has legit 7ft center size and strength. His willingness to bang and defend is his base, and he was surprising skilled and fluid on the offensive end.

He is raw, but given his background and his age (19) he has very high upside. And no injury history, he can come in and participate in summer league and camp, unlike Noel or Len. Physically he is ready now, you don't have to wait 2-3 years for him to develop or put on weight. But he still has the potential to substantially add more strength over time.

He has moved to the top of my board with Porter, ahead of Len or Bennett. Olynyk on the other hand has dropped off my board at 8.

[No-Man]

And Len is really overrated, the guys just doesnt desire it that much, and he's going to have strength issues and injuries just because of his physique.

At best, and this is being optimistic, he's Big Z 2.0, and Ilgauskas was way more skilled at his age.

[hands11]

Burke is going to be at least at Deron Williams level.

If he pans out and works really hard, maybe even Parker's

I think Paul is unreachable for him because of concerns on defense.

He'll be the best player of this class without any doubt.

I will be tremendously surprised if Burke is the best player in this class. I'm not even sure he's the best PG.

Michigan had athletes, floor spacers, and a post presence. (Hardaway Jr., Robinson III, Stauskas, McGary) That team was built to be good offensively. Put Burke on South Dakota State in place of Nate Wolters and how good would Burke be? Put Burke on Lehigh and is he as good as C.J. McCollum? Put Trey Burke on University of Detroit Mercy and would he have been as successful as Ray McCallum Jr? Put Burke on Miami U and is he better than Shane Larkin?

Fischella, I like his game a lot but I think he might not be considerably better than Nate Wolters, Pierre Jackson, Ray McCallum, or Shane Larkin. On the other side of the ball, a lot of PGs get after it better defensively than Burke. The ones I named are good enough offensively to not be totally overshadowed by Burke, who is without a doubt a TREMENDOUS offensive talent with points and assists ability.

Im going to go out on a limb here and say Burke has a vastly better career then Wolters. And I love Pierre as you can tell by all my posts about him early on but he is a back up PG who might find some starts down the road. Burke is going to run a team and be the team leader.

And CJM was another one I loved, but he isn't the PG that Burke is. CJM is more a SG with handles who will become a better PG as time goes on if a team wants him to be that.

Now Shane Larkin is interesting. We will see.

As for what is Muscala ranked so much lower then Kelly Olynyk. I don't know. I posted that questions a few pages back but didn't see any answers to it. Maybe its just the Gonzaga Canadian thing and the long hair.

[hands11]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wiz ... -abnormal/

Oladipo famously used his key card at the gym at Indiana so much for workouts that it stopped working and forced him to get a replacement. He would go to the gym for late-night training sessions – after watching West Coast NBA games conclude after midnight.

“I’m just abnormal,” said Oladipo, who also took 19 credit hours his final semester in order to graduate in three years. “I’m a weird dude. I’m not going to lie to you.”

he had the second-best maximum vertical leap at 42 inches

Oladipo, 21, believes that he hasn’t come close to reaching his peak as a player after improving each season at Indiana.

“I feel like I have another level every year that I start a new season of basketball. If I continue to keep growing, and make everything consistent, I’m going to get better and better each year. That’s what I feel like I’ll be able to do,” Oladipo said.

“I feel in order to be great, I have to be able to impact the ball on both ends of the floor,” Oladipo said, while adding that what distinguishes him from other perimeter prospects is “my willingness to get stops and play defense. I’m not going to forget that, because that’s what got me to this point.”

named Big 10 defensive player of the year.

But Oladipo wouldn’t be considered a lottery pick if he hadn’t worked on his jump shot. Oladipo shot 44.1 percent (30 of 68) from beyond the three-point line after connecting on just 28.1 percent from long distance (18 of 64) in his first two seasons with the Hoosiers. “My first two years, whenever I missed a shot, I would be, ‘Oh, no need to shoot the next one, because the next one isn’t going in either,’ ” he said. “This year, I was like, so what? If I miss it. I’m going to shoot with the same confidence. If I miss it’s rare. Like if I miss, ‘Oh, I know the next one is going in.’ I felt like a shooter.”

The Wizards interviewed Oladipo on the first night teams were allowed to speak to prospects this week, which was a thrill for the Upper Marlboro native. “It was fun,” Oladipo said. “Those guys know pretty much everything about you. I mean, everybody does, but they’re right in the back yard. Growing up watching the Wizards, so it was fun being in that room and talking to them and being from the area.”

[Dark Faze]

Hibbert dominated without having a PG that can pass into the post worth a crap.

Whatever, draft Len. If he has a chance to become Hibbert I guess we have to do it.

[Dat2U]

Why are people so high on Len but low on Zeller. Zeller looked better than Len in college in every aspect of basketball and is more athletic.

Your not looking for the best college player, but the best NBA player.

[hands11]

From DraftX

-Steven Adams is an enormous individual, measuring in at 6'10.75 without shoes with a 7'4.5 wingspan and 255 pound frame. His hands are among the largest recorded since the NBA began measuring hand width and length regularly as well. Adams's measurements are eerily similar to those of Greg Oden (6'11 without shoes, 7'4.25 wingspan, 257 pounds), which certainly puts just how impressive his physical profile is in perspective.

[Dat2U]

Ok, I'm ready to project my #1.

I think come draft day, Trey Burke will be the consensus #1

I think its going to be between him, Otto and Len.

Otto will have the upside talk holding him back.
Len is injured.

Burke getting way to much props for his leadership and CP3 type comparisons. People will buy onto that.

So what about the lack of upside for Burke? I don't think he's got the athleticism to dominate the league's deepest position. There are plenty of high quality PGs in the league, he's going to have a tough time standing out.

Porter plays a position that lacks top shelf talent especially with LeBron & Melo playing more extensively at the 4. It would be much easier for him to standout, kind of like it is for Paul George now. Getting an above average SF these days is like hitting the lottery.

[Upper Decker]

Hibbert dominated without having a PG that can pass into the post worth a crap.

Whatever, draft Len. If he has a chance to become Hibbert I guess we have to do it.

Not sure what you're talking about. Jonathan Wallace was a damned good college PG. Not only that but Lens numbers are strikingly similar to Hibberts, who by your account dominated. So if Len can do that w/o a PG, look out!

[Dark Faze]

I was talking about Indianas PG situation tonight..

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

And Len is really overrated, the guys just doesnt desire it that much, and he's going to have strength issues and injuries just because of his physique.

At best, and this is being optimistic, he's Big Z 2.0, and Ilgauskas was way more skilled at his age.

Wow. This is eerie....

Way before reading this post I thought Alex Len might become another Zydrunas, including starting off with foot
issues. I even thought of posting "Zydrunas Len" or "Alex Igauskas"
as a joke!

The one caveat about Len is his guards were horrific, Len finished at an elite level but on sparse few attempts, I agree totally, Fischella, that Len doesn't appear to want it that much. However, with Wall as his PG I believe he'd get the greatest looks and he would definitely finish with authority. Len's best hope would be to play with an elite facilitator. Wall is that player.

I am not as down on Len but I think Big Z is a good comparison.

[Deeptu McPullup]

I see SteveMcQ’s Nene comparison for Zeller with the similarity being how they operate offensively in the halfcourt.

Like Steve, I see Zeller’s first step as being pure nasty and his craftiness out of the post off the dribble or as a passer is Nenesque. I believe he’ll be more of a poor man’s Nene in those roles with less power, but his perimeter skill set should be higher. Some of Nene’s passing is also predicated on those huge hands, so I don’t know that Zeller can match that exactly, but he’s got great vision. However, contrary to some here, I don’t know how a seven footer with his handles, foot work, quickness, agility and free throw stroke is being disparaged for poor perimeter potential.

While I agree that he can easily fill out his frame, it’s indeed a bridge too far to think about him ever packing on the sheer power that Nene posses (to be fair, Steve did say some many pages back “a quicker but weaker Nene”). That said, the “Zeller is weak” talk is just a product of Cody attracting attention from such a young age. Guys that age with Conan The Roll Man frames like Kiwi Adams or Bowling Ball Bennet are exceptional.

Here’s a real good Cody game to watch:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTyLJeaGOzo[/youtube]

It’s the Freshman to Freshman foray versus Brow Davis in the sweet 16. Both Zeller and AD get into foul trouble in the first half, so you only need to watch about the first 8 minutes of the game and then can fast forward to the second half (unless you want to watch Vic-Ola-D against the Wildcat wings).

They go to Zeller a lot, so it’s an excellent scouting tape considering the competition.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/wp/2013/05/18/indianas-victor-oladipo-im-just-abnormal/

Oladipo famously used his key card at the gym at Indiana so much for workouts that it stopped working and forced him to get a replacement. He would go to the gym for late-night training sessions – after watching West Coast NBA games conclude after midnight.

“I’m just abnormal,” said Oladipo, who also took 19 credit hours his final semester in order to graduate in three years. “I’m a weird dude. I’m not going to lie to you.”

he had the second-best maximum vertical leap at 42 inches

Oladipo, 21, believes that he hasn’t come close to reaching his peak as a player after improving each season at Indiana.

“I feel like I have another level every year that I start a new season of basketball. If I continue to keep growing, and make everything consistent, I’m going to get better and better each year. That’s what I feel like I’ll be able to do,” Oladipo said.

“I feel in order to be great, I have to be able to impact the ball on both ends of the floor,” Oladipo said, while adding that what distinguishes him from other perimeter prospects is “my willingness to get stops and play defense. I’m not going to forget that, because that’s what got me to this point.”

named Big 10 defensive player of the year.

But Oladipo wouldn’t be considered a lottery pick if he hadn’t worked on his jump shot. Oladipo shot 44.1 percent (30 of 68) from beyond the three-point line after connecting on just 28.1 percent from long distance (18 of 64) in his first two seasons with the Hoosiers. “My first two years, whenever I missed a shot, I would be, ‘Oh, no need to shoot the next one, because the next one isn’t going in either,’ ” he said. “This year, I was like, so what? If I miss it. I’m going to shoot with the same confidence. If I miss it’s rare. Like if I miss, ‘Oh, I know the next one is going in.’ I felt like a shooter.”

The Wizards interviewed Oladipo on the first night teams were allowed to speak to prospects this week, which was a thrill for the Upper Marlboro native. “It was fun,” Oladipo said. “Those guys know pretty much everything about you. I mean, everybody does, but they’re right in the back yard. Growing up watching the Wizards, so it was fun being in that room and talking to them and being from the area.”

If I had to guess which player will be THE dominant player in this class I would say Victor Oladipo.

Athleticism and work ethic, as well as intelligence, are off the chart. I think he's going to score far better in the NBA than projected. Oladipo will become an all star IMO.

[mhd]

I think Oladipo is locked in to the Suns. If not, the Pelicans, Kings, and Pistons all would take him. His floor is Detroit IMO.

[tontoz]

Sucks that we don't know Bennett's standing reach. With guys like Dipo and Burke looking like they will be picked ahead of us i think their is a reasonable chance Bennett falls.

[Dark Faze]

Would be dumb to reach on a tweener in a draft with this many bigs.

[doclinkin]

The more I watch film and assess the draft the more I feel like we'll get a good player no matter what. There is talent, skill, size, upside, hard-workers -- all available deep into the lottery and a few who will surprise likely to be selected later. No superstars maybe, but solid productive long-careered role-players, and possibly a few all-star appearances, or all-defensive team players. I'm happy to see who falls to us and take what we can get. I don't think we'll get opportunities to trade back even if we do leap into the top 3. Draftniks can be forgiven for being excited about their favorite players, there's no great separation between any of them, the lack of significant talent also means there are fewer poison pill types who will severely disappoint in the gap between potential and accomplishment. You pretty much know what you're getting with most of the guys int he front part of the draft.