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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#681 » by doclinkin » Sun May 19, 2013 3:53 pm

Deeptu McPullup wrote:
Here’s a real good Cody game to watch:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTyLJeaGOzo[/youtube]

It’s the Freshman to Freshman foray versus Brow Davis in the sweet 16. Both Zeller and AD get into foul trouble in the first half, so you only need to watch about the first 8 minutes of the game and then can fast forward to the second half (unless you want to watch Vic-Ola-D against the Wildcat wings).

They go to Zeller a lot, so it’s an excellent scouting tape considering the competition.


I like how Office Dipo works on here. He's so long armed he can keep a low dribble while standing up straight. Well okay, while maintaining his usual hunched but alert posture. He's added the long range shot this year and reports of his drive and desire are encouraging for future success. As a 'tweener' 2-3 he still fills a need, what we call a swingman. His defense and awareness are nice. I'd find it easy enough to cheer for him on my squad.

I liked Zeller's willingness to bang a bit, decent passing. His short arms do get snuffed a couple times or lose him rebounds out of his area but he has nice footwork and boxes out well. Defensive footwork is okay though in this game he was dialed in on Unibrow and not helping anyone while keeping in arms reach of the phenom.

Eh I won't cry if we land either one.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#682 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sun May 19, 2013 4:15 pm

Late with this, bit nbatv reshowing entire day 2. Past hour have been showing the centers going at it.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#683 » by The Consiglieri » Sun May 19, 2013 4:25 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Would be dumb to reach on a tweener in a draft with this many bigs.


Not when he's considered a better prospect than any one of them save Noel.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#684 » by Liverbird » Sun May 19, 2013 4:54 pm

Not terribly high on Zeller but if he's available at 8, I think it represents a good value. He does share some of the same offensive characteristics with Nene. I'd like then to trade both our 2nd round picks and move up for Glen Rice Jr or the best wing available. Consolidate the draft blunder of 2011 for some future picks.

Alternatively, I wouldn't mind a CJM/Muscala/BPA draft. Something about Shabazz unsettles me and I don't think his personality would fit with the current roster....of course they could impact him positively as well but I'm not encouraged.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#685 » by Dat2U » Sun May 19, 2013 5:28 pm

Deeptu McPullup wrote:I see SteveMcQ’s Nene comparison for Zeller with the similarity being how they operate offensively in the halfcourt.

Like Steve, I see Zeller’s first step as being pure nasty and his craftiness out of the post off the dribble or as a passer is Nenesque. I believe he’ll be more of a poor man’s Nene in those roles with less power, but his perimeter skill set should be higher. Some of Nene’s passing is also predicated on those huge hands, so I don’t know that Zeller can match that exactly, but he’s got great vision. However, contrary to some here, I don’t know how a seven footer with his handles, foot work, quickness, agility and free throw stroke is being disparaged for poor perimeter potential.

While I agree that he can easily fill out his frame, it’s indeed a bridge too far to think about him ever packing on the sheer power that Nene posses (to be fair, Steve did say some many pages back “a quicker but weaker Nene”). That said, the “Zeller is weak” talk is just a product of Cody attracting attention from such a young age. Guys that age with Conan The Roll Man frames like Kiwi Adams or Bowling Ball Bennet are exceptional.

Here’s a real good Cody game to watch:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTyLJeaGOzo[/youtube]

It’s the Freshman to Freshman foray versus Brow Davis in the sweet 16. Both Zeller and AD get into foul trouble in the first half, so you only need to watch about the first 8 minutes of the game and then can fast forward to the second half (unless you want to watch Vic-Ola-D against the Wildcat wings).

They go to Zeller a lot, so it’s an excellent scouting tape considering the competition.


It is good competition and Zeller acquitted himself pretty well. But Zeller's strengths have been discussed at length and this game did nothing to address the concerns regarding his transition at the next level.

Zeller really struggles with strength. Even with all the weight he's added this past season, he's still weak. He gets pushed around so easily. I could show you tape against Minnesota or Syracuse that happened more recently, against non NBA talent, where Zeller really didn't look like a lottery prospect. I don't know if Zeller is ever going to have the core strength to really hold his own. Zeller did ok against Davis mainly because he didn't have to worry about getting mauled or roughed up. Davis is a PF prospect who uses length & athleticism to impact the game not brute force.

Secondly, I worry about Zeller's defensive impact. What position does he guard? His length at 8'10" is a legitimate issue. It's not ideal at all. So if his length & strength are both concerns, he really becomes a risky proposition the higher he goes.

Thirdly, is his skillset offensively. I'm less worried about this because I did read that he did come to Indiana with more of a face up game and had good range on his jumper. I'm worried about the fact he wasn't able to utilize those skills at Indiana, because if you don't use them, you could lose them. However, I suspect he'll work hard on that aspect and I'm glad he recognizes the need to show a perimeter game on the pro level.

All in all, Zeller is a guy I see as a backup. If he's drafted in the teens, I suspect a team will be happy with what they get. If he's drafted in the top half of the lottery, there may be some slight disappointment. I think he is fairly quick & mobile, runs the floor very well and shows excellent touch & craftiness around the rim, however his physical profile is going to limit him at the pro level. He may serve as a solid energy big off the bench, but it's hard for me to see much more beyond a rotation level role for him.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#686 » by hands11 » Sun May 19, 2013 5:32 pm

Combine Comments from the panel.

ESPN’s Ryen Russillo, former Duke guard Jay Williams, former assistant GM Tom Penn, analyst Fran Fraschilla and draft expert Chad Ford

They really liked the class. Said many would rise. Bigs usually do.
Lots of these "Centers" are really "Power Forwards"

All this stuff is a fringe element of picking a players. Does it translate. How do they fit in.
Where they slot is not nearly as important as fit on the right team. 2nd contract is more important.

Len Center
Would be willing to take top 3
Upside off the charts
Upside - starting center for 10 years
Md, 3rd worse passing team.
One of their favorites in the draft
Could be a dominate player
If he worked out, he might have worked his way to #1 considerations
They are happy he will slide. Say it will take the pressure off of him so he can develop

Noel no longer the consensus #1
just to light. NBA guards are 206. To light to even play PF.

Called Kelly O a TRex. They mentioned Jason Smith.
He works. BBIQ. Put on weight. Moves well.
16 mpg back up PF/C
10-15 pick

Muscala PF
more moves then Kevin McHale
not first rounder but not sure why they said that.
76% shooting at combine
efficient, skills, adv stats always top 10
looks like a Euro center
didn't handle contact well
development player
- I think they are missing it. He is a S4/PF more then a center.

Adams Center
top 10 pick
raw
said he could be pick and pop to the 3 line.
Tees it up nicely
he could be a very good starting center
takes guide hand off the ball. Shoot a one handed jumper.
Big hands.
NBA body already at 19. Only one real year a legit training program.

Gobert PF mid first leave him in Europe a few years mid first
Batum really likes and they respect Batum evaluation.
French player translate
Project
high release, super long

Dieng had a sprained ankle

Asked who they would pick between Dieng, Adam, Zeller
all 4 on the panel said Adams. Said solid vs upside. Take the upside
Zeller struggled against length but needs to be a PF and that move makes him more a crap shoot.
Zeller, a good role player on a playoff team is his upside.

Kadji 6-11 PF
nice standing vert but he doesn't use it in game so you would never know. They were shocked.
older. pick and pop
lets not get to excited. He doesn't show his hops in live games.
not the best rebounder
can take you off the dribble as a 4
can shot with range
pick and pop hands down best
he will make a roster

Zeller PF
Potential. Shows really well on screens. Closes out well.
Good college player. Gets pushed around.
5" higher the Plumlee, who would have thought. Doesn't do it in games.
Indiana trains for these kind of combine tests.
Runs the floor really well. Mentioned Tyler Hansbough. Energy guy.
Zeller without a position right now. Individual workout will be really important.

Plumlee PF
energy guy
first in lane agility, mod lane and 3/4 sprint. 2nd max vert. 3rd in standing vert.
get a head a steam and nice running vert leaps 5.5" higher then standing leaps = 36"
rebounder, runner

Good year for overseas players. 6-7 in the first round.

Dario
well scouted.
Chad Ford - Lottery pick. GMs say highest BBIQ
vs Porter. bigger, better rebounder, better ball handler
If he was in college today, he would be a top prospect
Off the court issues though dragging him down. Been spoiled to told to much how good he is.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#687 » by Dat2U » Sun May 19, 2013 5:52 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Upper Decker wrote:I think the difference between Olynyk and Gasol is that Gasol has much better length than Olynyk. Even though Gasol started out weak, he always had defensive potential because he arms nearly drag on the ground when he's walking. Olynyk's short wing span will make him a bench player in the NBA. There's nothing wrong with that, but at 8 there will be better options.


I'm getting talked out of some of my Olynyk love. It's not like me to waiver once my mind is set, but I am thinking about his transition and envisioning others having an easier adjustment and more immediate impact.

My question are why is Olynyk ranked higher than Muscala? Is Olynyk mobile enough to start at 4? What is his assist/turnover ratio compared with other prospective 4/5 players in this draft? Can the same post moves work in the NBA, because if so his offense ranks very high. Olynyk was very successful all year, and what if he skipped the combine?


Olynyk's standing reach is 9'0. Muscala's standing reach is 9'0. Zeller's standing reach is 8'10"

Olynyk posted a TS% of .675 & eFG% of .642 while maintaining a usage rate of 30.7% in the WCC league.
Muscala posted a TS% of .575 & eFG of .513 while maintaining a usage rate of 31.6% in the Patriot league.

Olynyk simply was far more efficient than Muscala. And did it against arguably better competition.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#688 » by Liverbird » Sun May 19, 2013 5:56 pm

I'd love to see Saric vs. Porter in workouts.

Shabazz vs Oladipo.

Bennett vs. Zeller. Better yet, It would be interesting to see how Zeller matches up with Singleton and Booker (I realize it's not likely). Either should give us an idea of whether he can play PF.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#689 » by hands11 » Sun May 19, 2013 6:02 pm

Guards.. again. more comments about how nothing much that they see in the combine changes much.
If you liked a player, you like them. Only looking for extreme flags.

Picking at 15 could be as good as picking at 5.

No franchise #1
May see teams trade out of the top picks.
Teams have cap space this year.

Cleveland could trade out. Even if it is #1. They already have young talent. They need vets.
Bulls could use some young players. Maybe a trade for Luol Deng.

They love Tim Hardaway Jr
knows the pro game. Been playing with pro.
knows the spacing already.
16 mpg at the 2. With upside.

Pope
Good not exceptional athlete at NBA level

MIL, ATL, Utah. All have caps space and need a dynamic player or coach to build around.

MIL needs a guard that can make other players better. Gotta let Ellis go. Could be good as a role player
on a playoff team but not worth the money and role as a #1 scorer.

Bennett
Larry Johnson, Armon Gilliam, Isaiah Rider, Sidney Green
Blazers assistant coach says best prospect that was in camp.
outstanding rebounder
best combination of skill and longer term potential
knows how to play. Chad says can step into the NBA.
Not shy to take a shot.
Finish through contact
asthma issue
did some thing in NC camp that blow people away.

PHX really hard to rebuild. No notable talent. If you want to see what not to do, look at PHX.
Held vets to long. Not a player on the team to get excited about. Only 11M cap. Its going to take a while.
Gotta start with culture for them. VO would be great for them. Maybe CJM. McLemore
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#690 » by gambitx777 » Sun May 19, 2013 6:05 pm

So, im curious about what you guys think, Zellers issues? are they coach-able or is he the bust that some think he will be
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#691 » by Dat2U » Sun May 19, 2013 6:35 pm

At this moment after the Chicago pre-draft camp: Likely to change lol

tier ONE:
None

tier TWO:
1. F Otto Porter Jr.
2. C Nerlens Noel
3. G Victor Oladipo

tier THREE:
4. G Trey Burke
5. C Kelly Olynyk
6. C Alex Len
7. C Rudy Gobert
8. G C.J. McCollum
9. G Dennis Schroeder
10. F Anthony Bennett

tier FOUR:
11. F Glen Rice Jr.
12. G Ben McLemore
13. F Cody Zeller
14. F Shabazz Muhammad
15. C Gorgui Dieng
16. G Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
17. G Jamaal Franklin
18. F Giannis Adetokunbo

tier FIVE:
19. G Isaiah Canaan
20. C Steven Adams
21. C Mike Muscala
22. F Dario Saric
23. C Jeff Withey
24. F Sergey Karasev
25. G Shane Larkin
26. G Pierre Jackson
27. G Erick Green
28. G Nate Wolters
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#692 » by hands11 » Sun May 19, 2013 6:37 pm

Jackie Carmichael

Solid mature. Strong.
He is going to back you down.
Knows who he is.
Solid role player off the bench.

Tony Michell
Wild card of the draft
Rebounding machine. He really got up on the vert. They were wowed.
Doesn't have the motor of a Faried but he can rebound.
Rebounding translates.
Big time athlete
Huge risk in the first
Kind of a tweaner. Wants to be a SF
Needs to check out in interviews.
7-2 wing span. 6-8 3/4 standing reach of 8-10.5 Thats a legit PF
B Griffin Size. 38 inch max vert. Higher then Blake.

Picks are bigger assets now with the new CBA
Teams wont be able to just buy players as easy.

Tim Hardaway Jr
Seems like a really nice young man.
Did well in 4 on 4
Pretty sure he makes a team.

McLemore
lol. He could probably do a good Muhammad Ali impersonation.
They said he comes across as a kid in the interviews. They noticed the difference vs others.
The sweet spot is to find young talent in someone who is already a man but it hard to find everything.
- guess it wasn't just me seeing what I saw.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#693 » by nate33 » Sun May 19, 2013 6:48 pm

hands11 wrote:Adams Center
top 10 pick
raw
said he could be pick and pop to the 3 line.
Tees it up nicely
he could be a very good starting center
takes guide hand off the ball. Shoot a one handed jumper.
Big hands.
NBA body already at 19. Only one real year a legit training program.

:o

Who said this stuff?
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#694 » by hands11 » Sun May 19, 2013 6:56 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:
hands11 wrote:Ok, I'm ready to project my #1.

I think come draft day, Trey Burke will be the consensus #1

I think its going to be between him, Otto and Len.

Otto will have the upside talk holding him back.
Len is injured.

Burke getting way to much props for his leadership and CP3 type comparisons. People will buy onto that.


While I think that Otto will probably go top 4, or at worst, sixth or seventh, I think there's zero chance he will go #1. Just doesn't have anywhere near the upside to justify that at slot 1. At the end of the day, teams picking at #1, are hoping for someone that might be great someday or will be. Porter isn't that.


Depends on who gets the picks. If its a team like PHX, they are looking for a franchise player. That has a lot to do with personality as well as what you can do on the court. Most of the crap teams don't have that player so they will value these players.

Burke, Otto, and VO. They are players that can help give a franchise like PHX some direction. That isn't McLemore. He just isn't mature enough yet. You want a player who personality will help define you team in the locker and on the court.

Cavs have their franchise face already so it means less to them. Actually, they may just trade out. They need more vets and they have 4 picks. The Wizards already have that so that quality doesn't matter as much. They can go for pure talent and upside in a Len or Adams.

The Magic could use one of those three. Burke would be good for them.
SAC could also use one.

Personality, maturity, leadership. Those things all matter when it comes to finding player that can help lead your franchise in a new direction. That is what separates the top talent. And that is what a lot of teams will look for in a top 3 pick.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#695 » by hands11 » Sun May 19, 2013 7:31 pm

nate33 wrote:
hands11 wrote:Adams Center
top 10 pick
raw
said he could be pick and pop to the 3 line.
Tees it up nicely
he could be a very good starting center
takes guide hand off the ball. Shoot a one handed jumper.
Big hands.
NBA body already at 19. Only one real year a legit training program.

:o

Who said this stuff?


All comments I posted where the consensus of the combine panel.

ESPN’s Ryen Russillo, former Duke guard Jay Williams, former assistant GM Tom Penn, analyst Fran Fraschilla and draft expert Chad Ford
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#696 » by theboomking » Sun May 19, 2013 7:54 pm

Just played the lotto 3 times. We won the 2nd pick and chose Porter, and the 3rd pick and chose Bennett. I wonder how much info they have on who we like.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#697 » by DCZards » Sun May 19, 2013 8:11 pm

hands11 wrote:Personality, maturity, leadership. Those things all matter when it comes to finding player that can help lead your franchise in a new direction. That is what separates the top talent. And that is what a lot of teams will look for in a top 3 pick.


Teams may look for those things in players, but at the end of the day McLemore and Noel will get drafted ahead of more mature and personable guys like Porter and VO. Talent and potential trumps personality every time.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#698 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun May 19, 2013 8:21 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Upper Decker wrote:I think the difference between Olynyk and Gasol is that Gasol has much better length than Olynyk. Even though Gasol started out weak, he always had defensive potential because he arms nearly drag on the ground when he's walking. Olynyk's short wing span will make him a bench player in the NBA. There's nothing wrong with that, but at 8 there will be better options.


I'm getting talked out of some of my Olynyk love. It's not like me to waiver once my mind is set, but I am thinking about his transition and envisioning others having an easier adjustment and more immediate impact.

My question are why is Olynyk ranked higher than Muscala? Is Olynyk mobile enough to start at 4? What is his assist/turnover ratio compared with other prospective 4/5 players in this draft? Can the same post moves work in the NBA, because if so his offense ranks very high. Olynyk was very successful all year, and what if he skipped the combine?


Olynyk's standing reach is 9'0. Muscala's standing reach is 9'0. Zeller's standing reach is 8'10"

Olynyk posted a TS% of .675 & eFG% of .642 while maintaining a usage rate of 30.7% in the WCC league.
Muscala posted a TS% of .575 & eFG of .513 while maintaining a usage rate of 31.6% in the Patriot league.

Olynyk simply was far more efficient than Muscala. And did it against arguably better competition.


Thanks for posting the stats.

My original line of thinking about Olynyk is the Wizards need an offensive-minded big. With Wall, Beal, and likely wing scoring from Webster/Ariza; a very efficient PF/C should really boost the Wizards.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#699 » by pancakes3 » Sun May 19, 2013 8:42 pm

hands11 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
hands11 wrote:Adams Center
top 10 pick
raw
said he could be pick and pop to the 3 line.
Tees it up nicely
he could be a very good starting center
takes guide hand off the ball. Shoot a one handed jumper.
Big hands.
NBA body already at 19. Only one real year a legit training program.

:o

Who said this stuff?


All comments I posted where the consensus of the combine panel.

ESPN’s Ryen Russillo, former Duke guard Jay Williams, former assistant GM Tom Penn, analyst Fran Fraschilla and draft expert Chad Ford


I also read that Adams has a pretty decent jumper and it was mentioned earlier in this thread. I don't know what "tees it up nicely" means though.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#700 » by AFM » Sun May 19, 2013 9:42 pm

It means he's good at golf

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