2012-13 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[Vinsanity420]

I think we should all feel a little silly about how we were talking about Curry earlier.

He's had 17 ppg on 35% from the field in the last 4 games. And the funny thing is, we still need to put him in our top fives simply because no one else is playing that great.

These Playoffs are crazy... So up and down. Parker is probably back in my list.

While there's no doubt that the hype on Curry went out of control, for the most part to me the only reason Curry's getting the consideration he is in this project is that the competition is so damn weak. After Paul at #3, I really am at a loss. No one seems worthy.

This is pretty much how I feel. I don't know what's stopping someone like Marc Gasol from creeping up to #5. There's just a bunch of guys that are playing approximately at the same level.

[Woodsanity]

1) Lebron
2) Durant
3) Cp3
4) meh

Rest are really iffy. I guess I could put TP there but I am not impressed by him shredding extremely weak defenses.

[Doctor MJ]

This is pretty much how I feel. I don't know what's stopping someone like Marc Gasol from creeping up to #5. There's just a bunch of guys that are playing approximately at the same level.

Yup I can already see it. If Memphis gets to the Finals and Gasol is the clear star, he'll get Top 5 love here and people will criticize that as just siding with whoever was on a successful playoff team...but it's awfully hard for me to imagine feeling strongly that someone else outside the Top 3 would be drastically better in my book at that time.

Really, whoever I end up putting at 4 I expect criticism because whoever is at 4 deserves criticism of some sort compared to what "#4" typically means.

[Colbinii]

Yup I can already see it. If Memphis gets to the Finals and Gasol is the clear star, he'll get Top 5 love here and people will criticize that as just siding with whoever was on a successful playoff team...but it's awfully hard for me to imagine feeling strongly that someone else outside the Top 3 would be drastically better in my book at that time.

Really, whoever I end up putting at 4 I expect criticism because whoever is at 4 deserves criticism of some sort compared to what "#4" typically means.

Why don't you have Tony Parker at 4, and why do people have Curry ahead of Parker?

[B_Creamy]

This is pretty much how I feel. I don't know what's stopping someone like Marc Gasol from creeping up to #5. There's just a bunch of guys that are playing approximately at the same level.

Yup I can already see it. If Memphis gets to the Finals and Gasol is the clear star, he'll get Top 5 love here and people will criticize that as just siding with whoever was on a successful playoff team...but it's awfully hard for me to imagine feeling strongly that someone else outside the Top 3 would be drastically better in my book at that time.

Really, whoever I end up putting at 4 I expect criticism because whoever is at 4 deserves criticism of some sort compared to what "#4" typically means.

How do you feel about Duncan right now? It's look to me like he's playing the best ball he has in years.



As far as 4 and 5 candidates I have in order

Curry
Harden
Duncan
Gasol
Wade (liable to make the biggest jump if he explodes in the next 2 rounds)

[Doctor MJ]

It's pretty dang fitting that the two responses to my post about no legit #4 mention Parker and Duncan respectively. The fact that there's no consensus there has everything to do with why it's so hard to take them seriously as POY candidate (the fact that their coach seems more valuable than either of them is also relevant).

But if the team keeps winning and they keep impressing along the way, one of them might get there.

[nunemouse]

Well, Parker is playing better than Curry/Harden/Melo/Wade and has comparable RS numbers. What real argument does anyone one of those 4 have above Parker? Why do we have to postulate his impact on his team, when his numbers are better than the competition by a fair margin?

[bondom34]

Well, Parker is playing better than Curry/Harden/Melo/Wade and has comparable RS numbers. What real argument does anyone one of those 4 have above Parker? Why do we have to postulate his impact on his team, when his numbers are better than the competition by a fair margin?

OK, so I tried to figure out how I'd do this after the top 3 (LBJ, KD, CP3), and this is my reasoning (critique if you see fit):

4: Harden
On the total season/POs, played most time out of himself, Melo, Wade, Duncan, Parker, Curry, and was clear front man to his team which massively overplayed expectations. Was also a solid scorer and reasonably efficient, whether or not you like how he did it with drawing fouls (it works). Also tops in that list in WS and TS percentage

5. Curry
Late push in postseason, leads underdog to upset of LAC and hangs with Spurs for a bit, big push post all star snub as well, kind of fluid with Melo for 5 now.
Reasons others were behind:
Melo
Clear first option for his team, scoring champ, although high volume guy. Highest in list in scoring and PER. Also 9 games less in RS than Curry, so time played factors in along with not as good of a postseason.

Duncan and Parker and Wade would all be slightly higher, but their amount of games/minutes played are a factor for me. Thats really the main factor (Duncan played almost 900 fewer minutes than Harden and Curry, Parker played 100 more min than Duncan, and Wade another 200 more (however Wade also hasn't been the same in the POs which also drops him).

[GSP]

Duncan being taken out in crunch time of a closeout game for Splitter b/c of his struggles especially with pick and roll..........he is not a top 5 player the spurs just have the great system and goat coach
Tony parker 1-12.....

[B_Creamy]

Well, Parker is playing better than Curry/Harden/Melo/Wade and has comparable RS numbers. What real argument does anyone one of those 4 have above Parker? Why do we have to postulate his impact on his team, when his numbers are better than the competition by a fair margin?

Tony Parker PS: 22.3/6.3/4.1 on 52%TS
James Harden PS: 26.3/4.5/6.7 on 55%TS
Steph Curry PS: 23.4/8.1/3.8 on 56%TS

Without "postulating his impact on his team" Parker's numbers really do not come out looking better, really they look slightly worse.

[Doctor MJ]

Thorpe says Marc Gasol has been the playoff MVP.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/58392/truehoop-tv-thorpes-new-playoff-mvp

Talk to me about that.

How clear to you is it that Gasol is the best player on the Grizz (if at all)?

[Vinsanity420]

After the Rudy Gay trade, Memphis was #11 on O-Rating, I believe. On top of this, they're a Top 3 defensive team, because Tayshaun Prince wasn't much of a downgrade on that end.

Lazy man's analysis would say Marc Gasol is clearly the best 'cause they're a defensive minded team, and he's the QB of their defense. I am wondering how much they drop off if you take Conley out of the equation, though... on both ends of the floor, too. He's always been a +/- star, and those numbers generally point out to a HUGE impact of the Grizzlies. He doesn't get noticed much because he isn't flashy like Westbrook, but his approach is very fundamental and still gets the job done.

[Mutnt]

Thorpe says Marc Gasol has been the playoff MVP.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/58392/truehoop-tv-thorpes-new-playoff-mvp

Talk to me about that.

How clear to you is it that Gasol is the best player on the Grizz (if at all)?

As far as the best player on the Grizz goes, pretty clear I think. Who else do you think deserves that title? The only two other players that have a case are Zbo and Conley. All three are very important to what Memphis does but Conley hasn't really had a stellar playoff run (his shooting numbers are quite awful). That leaves us with Gasol vs. Zbo. I'm not sure why anyone would side with Zbo's better rebounding and slightly better scoring over a defensive anchor who also happened to be the best offensive player for the Grizzlies this postseason. Great ball-mover, passer, shooter, low turnover guy, sets great screens... he also made quite a few clutch shots. So yeah, I'm not sue why anyone would side with Zach, although he's practically a 20-10 guy on good efficiency.

[Mutnt]

After the Rudy Gay trade, Memphis was #11 on O-Rating, I believe. On top of this, they're a Top 3 defensive team, because Tayshaun Prince wasn't much of a downgrade on that end.

Lazy man's analysis would say Marc Gasol is clearly the best 'cause they're a defensive minded team, and he's the QB of their defense. I am wondering how much they drop off if you take Conley out of the equation, though... on both ends of the floor, too. He's always been a +/- star, and those numbers generally point out to a HUGE impact of the Grizzlies. He doesn't get noticed much because he isn't flashy like Westbrook, but his approach is very fundamental and still gets the job done.

Conley's huge because he's the only capable wing scorer for the Grizzlies. A guy who can create his own shot, is decent at penetrating, a solid shooter, a respectable passer and on top of that he's not too shabby as a rebounding guard. Unfortunately, his shot has just been broken in the postseason. I can't side with a guy who's scoring less than Zbo & Gasol on way worse efficiency. Everything else, he is doing at a high level though. Some consistency would be nice too. One game he is like 28/9, the next his 6/10 , the next 13/3...

[E-Balla]

Conley goes beyond the numbers. He's still putting up 17.6/4.8/7.6 a game on 51.3 TS (10.0 TOV%). He has a 112 ORTG (just like Randolph). Also Randolph's been just as inconsistent.

But yes Marc is easily the best. I just noticed he has only a 5.7 TOV% and a 119 ORTG! How in the hell is he pulling that off.

[GSP]

I feel so dumb for thinking Timmy was the best player on the spurs this season. Forgive me tony parker

[B_Creamy]

I feel so dumb for thinking Timmy was the best player on the spurs this season. Forgive me tony parker

I'm still on the Duncan bandwagon. If he plays really well against this monster frontcourt it'll probably solidify him a spot in my Top 5.

[GSP]

I feel so dumb for thinking Timmy was the best player on the spurs this season. Forgive me tony parker

I'm still on the Duncan bandwagon. If he plays really well against this monster frontcourt it'll probably solidify him a spot in my Top 5.

His defense is still good but hes not the same game offensively he just looks like a system C on offense
TONY FREAKING PARKER!!!

[lorak]

After the Rudy Gay trade, Memphis was #11 on O-Rating, I believe. On top of this, they're a Top 3 defensive team, because Tayshaun Prince wasn't much of a downgrade on that end.

According to nba.com data (it's more accurate than b-r) Memphis ORTG was #17 since Tay trade: 103.6, barley better than NOH - 103.4 - or Celtics - 102.8. And Grizzlies had rather easy schedule.

[Vinsanity420]

Ah, alright, I stand corrected... got that off an article published in April. Still, the point about Conley being a +/- star stands.