Brook Lopez or Deron Williams, Best player?

[JF5]

Whose the best player for the Nets?

[vincecarter4pres]

On the season? Brook Lopez.

Overall the better player? Deron Williams, easily.

[PetroNet]

Dwill and it isnt close.

[therealbig3]

Even for this season, I feel like Deron clearly surpassed Lopez. Lopez regressed post-ASB (pretty sharply imo...his focus just wasn't where it was pre-ASB, and it showed defensively, and even offensively, when he would go through a lot more slumps in which he would just play really soft...his rebounding got worse too), D-Will exploded post-ASB, and D-Will was clearly our best player in the playoffs. And the gap between them pre-ASB was kind of overexaggerated anyway.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Brook Lopez. Utah Deron isn't around anymore.

[624]

Deron by far.

[N Ireland Nets]

Deron Williams is a superstar who underperformed this season. Lopez was our best player this season and hopefully will keep growing and getting better but right now Williams is by a country mile our best player.

[MrDollarBills]

Brooke was our best player in the regular, but he's a pussy and a coward.

Williams was fat for most of the season. Once he dropped the pounds and got the shot in the ankle he was elite level.



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[NyCeEvO]

Even for this season, I feel like Deron clearly surpassed Lopez. Lopez regressed post-ASB (pretty sharply imo...his focus just wasn't where it was pre-ASB, and it showed defensively, and even offensively, when he would go through a lot more slumps in which he would just play really soft...his rebounding got worse too), D-Will exploded post-ASB, and D-Will was clearly our best player in the playoffs. And the gap between them pre-ASB was kind of overexaggerated anyway.

Agreed 100%.

In addition to that, the reason why the pre-asb gap seemed big was because they were held to different standards. The PG position has become saturated with very good talent. D-will was supposed to be a top 5 PG and he was playing more like a top 15-20 PG which in general is ok but is not what you expect from him.that's why he got railed by everyone.

The center position has obviously weakened in the NBA, so saying Lopez is a top 5 center is good but it doesn't carry the same weight and meaning like it would have meant 20 years ago.

Lopez was never an all-star so he wasn't expected to carry the team like D-will was.

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[vincecarter4pres]

Even for this season, I feel like Deron clearly surpassed Lopez. Lopez regressed post-ASB (pretty sharply imo...his focus just wasn't where it was pre-ASB, and it showed defensively, and even offensively, when he would go through a lot more slumps in which he would just play really soft...his rebounding got worse too), D-Will exploded post-ASB, and D-Will was clearly our best player in the playoffs. And the gap between them pre-ASB was kind of overexaggerated anyway.

Agreed 100%.

In addition to that, the reason why the pre-asb gap seemed big was because they were held to different standards. The PG position has become saturated with very good talent. D-will was supposed to be a top 5 PG and he was playing more like a top 15-20 PG which in general is ok but is not what you expect from him.that's why he got railed by everyone.

The center position has obviously weakened in the NBA, so saying Lopez is a top 5 center is good but it doesn't carry the same weight and meaning like it would have meant 20 years ago.

Lopez was never an all-star so he wasn't expected to carry the team like D-will was.

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Top 15 to 20 point guard was crazy talk IMHO. Never was he out of the top 10 and all the banter about it was so NYC area media/fandom, like the quintessential and classic shilling of a player to disproportionate levels that our locale always lives by no matter the sport, the same as the overrating or at least over-smothering of our players when they are performing.

Also, I'd still have Lopez as a top 12 to 18 player on the season, but as I've said before which we seem to agree on, in all reality is he a true top 20 player when guys like Love, Rose and Rondo are healthy and guys like LMA and Dirk or Pau are on their normal games?

Yes some older guys are going to permanently fall out of the top range of players as well, such as Pierce, KG and maybe Pau and Dirk, but then there are some young guys like Paul George, Klay Thompson, Rubio, PEB, MKG, Beal, etc., who are likely to at worst equal Brook as well.

Now there's nothing wrong with being a top 20ish player, that's a high accolade, but I'm with you, as much as Brook has shown me this year, he's still shown me he's inconsistent, has bouts of straight softness, doesn't rebound the ball and needs to become a more reactionary passer.

[Swingy]

I'd say Brook had the better series against Chicago, though. I might put Deron ahead of Brook for the regular season, but that margin is really, really slight to me. The only reason why I'd put Deron over Brook during the regular season is because of the minutes difference, but the gap between pre-ASB and post-ASB Brook was much smaller than between pre-ASB and post-ASB Deron (even though pre-ASB Deron wasn't THAT bad). At most, I'd say they had equivalent seasons in terms of overall impact and if coerced, I'd say Lopez was slightly better. I'd expect Deron to be the better player next year.

[Paradise]

Brook had an amazing season but Deron is clearly the better player and way more reliable.

[enetric]

Even for this season, I feel like Deron clearly surpassed Lopez. Lopez regressed post-ASB (pretty sharply imo...his focus just wasn't where it was pre-ASB, and it showed defensively, and even offensively, when he would go through a lot more slumps in which he would just play really soft...his rebounding got worse too), D-Will exploded post-ASB, and D-Will was clearly our best player in the playoffs. And the gap between them pre-ASB was kind of overexaggerated anyway.

I agree about their level of play post all star break.

But, I am going to disagree to the extreme that Dwill was better than Lopez in the playoffs. I am sorry but Lopez was much better in the playoffs. Yes I thought he had moments that disappointed but....Deron actually had a couple of BAD games. BAAAAAAD that resulted in loses (game 2 and 3). I just dont know how anyone can praise him for the playoffs.

There wasnt ONE game in the entire series where you felt him take over. I dont mean just scoring. I mean that moment when its clear there is a superstar on the floor. Freakin Noah did it. Nate did it. Bellinelli did it. But not once did I feel OK...superstar on the floor imposing his will on the game strapping the team on his back. NOT ONCE.

Add to that...pretty much whoever Deron guarded torched us. TORCHED. And he decisions on the court nauseated me. Overall, he shot poorly. I would say easily worst playoffs of Deron's own career.

I felt that Lopez was consistently contributing in this series. I thought he was the one player the Bulls had trouble with. The one guy they adapted to as the game went on. And once they did...once it was Deron's time to shine and take over late...he failed to do so.

I have no beef with anyone who rips Brook's rebounding. Or that he lacks fire as a player...something our entire team lacks...but I get why comic book boy gets the biggest raised eye brow.

But have got to stop all the Deron denial.

[enetric]

Even for this season, I feel like Deron clearly surpassed Lopez. Lopez regressed post-ASB (pretty sharply imo...his focus just wasn't where it was pre-ASB, and it showed defensively, and even offensively, when he would go through a lot more slumps in which he would just play really soft...his rebounding got worse too), D-Will exploded post-ASB, and D-Will was clearly our best player in the playoffs. And the gap between them pre-ASB was kind of overexaggerated anyway.

Agreed 100%.

In addition to that, the reason why the pre-asb gap seemed big was because they were held to different standards. The PG position has become saturated with very good talent. D-will was supposed to be a top 5 PG and he was playing more like a top 15-20 PG which in general is ok but is not what you expect from him.that's why he got railed by everyone.

The center position has obviously weakened in the NBA, so saying Lopez is a top 5 center is good but it doesn't carry the same weight and meaning like it would have meant 20 years ago.

Lopez was never an all-star so he wasn't expected to carry the team like D-will was.

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Top 15 to 20 point guard was crazy talk IMHO. Never was he out of the top 10 and all the banter about it was so NYC area media/fandom, like the quintessential and classic shilling of a player to disproportionate levels that our locale always lives by no matter the sport, the same as the overrating or at least over-smothering of our players when they are performing.

Also, I'd still have Lopez as a top 12 to 18 player on the season, but as I've said before which we seem to agree on, in all reality is he a true top 20 player when guys like Love, Rose and Rondo are healthy and guys like LMA and Dirk or Pau are on their normal games?

Yes some older guys are going to permanently fall out of the top range of players as well, such as Pierce, KG and maybe Pau and Dirk, but then there are some young guys like Paul George, Klay Thompson, Rubio, PEB, MKG, Beal, etc., who are likely to at worst equal Brook as well.

Now there's nothing wrong with being a top 20ish player, that's a high accolade, but I'm with you, as much as Brook has shown me this year, he's still shown me he's inconsistent, has bouts of straight softness, doesn't rebound the ball and needs to become a more reactionary passer.

I agree with every word you just said. But can we also be honest about Deron's true short comings and not feel like we are defending our sister that someone just called slutty?

I feel like that is what we do. We cant just say the criticisms he took were too harsh. But yeah, he D is suspect. His foot speed is meh. He isnt a good rebounder. He isnt going to bring transition game to this team and he makes some really bad choices. Bad shot selection, bad rotations and bad decisions for when to do what.

I agree he is a top 5 PG. But there are so many good PG's in the game today...is there really a canyon between him and the guy at 12? The problem is...there IS a canyon between him and the top 5 players in the game.

And while he is better overall than Lopez? Supply and demand of bigs compared to PG's makes Lopez significantly more valuable to this team. Much harder to replace.

[enetric]

Brooke was our best player in the regular, but he's a pussy and a coward.

Williams was fat for most of the season. Once he dropped the pounds and got the shot in the ankle he was elite level.



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Agreed. UNTIL THE PLAYOFFS. There was nothing elite about Deron in the playoffs. NOTHING.

[therealbig3]

Even for this season, I feel like Deron clearly surpassed Lopez. Lopez regressed post-ASB (pretty sharply imo...his focus just wasn't where it was pre-ASB, and it showed defensively, and even offensively, when he would go through a lot more slumps in which he would just play really soft...his rebounding got worse too), D-Will exploded post-ASB, and D-Will was clearly our best player in the playoffs. And the gap between them pre-ASB was kind of overexaggerated anyway.

I agree about their level of play post all star break.

But, I am going to disagree to the extreme that Dwill was better than Lopez in the playoffs. I am sorry but Lopez was much better in the playoffs. Yes I thought he had moments that disappointed but....Deron actually had a couple of BAD games. BAAAAAAD that resulted in loses (game 2 and 3). I just dont know how anyone can praise him for the playoffs.

There wasnt ONE game in the entire series where you felt him take over. I dont mean just scoring. I mean that moment when its clear there is a superstar on the floor. Freakin Noah did it. Nate did it. Bellinelli did it. But not once did I feel OK...superstar on the floor imposing his will on the game strapping the team on his back. NOT ONCE.

Add to that...pretty much whoever Deron guarded torched us. TORCHED. And he decisions on the court nauseated me. Overall, he shot poorly. I would say easily worst playoffs of Deron's own career.

I felt that Lopez was consistently contributing in this series. I thought he was the one player the Bulls had trouble with. The one guy they adapted to as the game went on. And once they did...once it was Deron's time to shine and take over late...he failed to do so.

I have no beef with anyone who rips Brook's rebounding. Or that he lacks fire as a player...something our entire team lacks...but I get why comic book boy gets the biggest raised eye brow.

But have got to stop all the Deron denial.

And I disagree just as strongly that Lopez outplayed Deron. Lopez had 2 really bad games as well, in games 6 and 7, when we were facing elimination.

And the thing about Lopez...even when he puts up nice scoring numbers, his defense can be pretty bad, and he'll have entire games when he can't keep opposing big men off the glass, and overall, his impact becomes pretty much nothing, or even a slight negative. I thought Lopez played great in games 1, 3, and 5. He had a pretty decent game in game 4. Even though he scored well in game 2, I wouldn't really give too much props for that, because I felt that his rebounding and defense were awful, and then yeah, his two stinkers in games 6 and 7. And keep in mind that a lot of his offensive production didn't come from his own creation, it came from OTHERS setting him up, namely Deron.

No Deron didn't have one truly dominant game (depends on how you feel on his game 1 performance though), and he did have two stinkers (games 2 and 3), but he still played well, certainly well enough to win, and his lows in the series weren't as low as Lopez's, while his highs were clearly higher than Lopez's.

And imo it's pretty unfair to single out Deron for his defense, since a lot of what the Bulls ran was the high screen and roll, which depends on the big man to help the PG, which was Lopez, and he barely provided any defensive resistance much of the time. His defense in like the last 3-4 games of the series was a MUCH bigger problem than D-Will's, easily, imo. As soon as Noah got healthier as the series went on, he DESTROYED Lopez.

[enetric]

I dont think his game in 6/7 was as bad as you are making it out to be and I dont think Deron played all that great in those games either. Deron IS the better player. How can you not hold him to a higher standard?

You make comments like well enough. Well enough????

Deron is supposed to be a STUD. A top 10 NBA player. I dont think I have ever seen a star player go through a 7 game series without having a single game where he didnt shine brightly. He was just "there".

And you can absolutely point out his D. I dont know how you can make excuses for him and be that harsh on Lopez. Lopez as a #2 guy was overall DAMN impressive in this series. Deron as not only the #1 on our team but by far better than anyone on the Bulls was shown up by Hinrich, Nate and Belinelli. I mean SHOWN UP.

The Deron apologies have got to stop. LBJ was not the worst player on the Heat when they lost to Dallas. Yet he deserved the most blame. Kobe...to Detroit. Deserved the most blame.

DERON WAS BAD in this series. BAD!!!! Bad decisions, bad D...and a some terrible games without ONE great one.

There is no other way to say it. Come on already. EXPECT MORE FROM THE TOP GUY.

[therealbig3]

But now you're pointing out something different: actual play vs expected play. In that sense, yeah, I can buy that Lopez was more impressive than Deron.

But comparing their play to each other specifically? Deron was still better and it was pretty clear to me imho.

I also don't criticize his play as severely as you do. I thought he was great in games 1 and 4. He struggled down the stretch in game 4, and yes, I understand that's when superstars are supposed to step up and he didn't, and even though I was angry at him at the time...games like that have happened to the best of them. I remember a game in 2006, Spurs-Mavs, game 7, OT. Tim Duncan finishes with 41/15 in a Spurs loss...but he was just 1-7 in the OT. Even in these playoffs, Melo just had a 39 point game in which he shot over 50%...but he was 2-7 in the 4th quarter and the Knicks lost. Heck, look at KD, who struggled throughout the Memphis series in 4th quarters. The same thing happened to Deron, who carried us up until the 3 OTs.

A tough series for him? Sure. Should he have played better? Yes. Does he deserve criticism? Absolutely. But was he still our best player, not in terms of expectations but in terms of actual play? Pretty clearly yes as far as I'm concerned.

[enetric]

Well, we arent going to get anywhere on this one. I thought Lopez was our best player in the series just as he was first half of the year. I thought he played well overall. I thought Deron stunk up the joint so for you to call him the best player or even anything that resembles a positive is odd to me.

And I think the most unbiased of opinions? Bulls fans. They have been VERY clear to respect what Lopez brought and from what I have seen fairly shocked at how little Deron brought to the table in the series.

I can recall him getting hot with his shot for a quarter here and there...but beyond that I found myself ranging from unimpressed to irritated with his play.

[deepblueday]

i agree with enetric, brook was our best player vs chicago. the thing is, brook is a spectacular finisher on offense. from all areas of the court. i don't think that varied much at all throughout the series. when he was able to catch the ball for set shot jumpers, or flashing through the lane for a floater, or on dumpoffs from penetration, he was consistently superb. when the offense stagnated, and we tried to force him the ball in the post, no, he couldnt do it for us... but that isn't his role. it's on DERON to manufacture offense with the ball, for both himself and teammates. it's on deron to give brook the ball in positions where he can be successful. and, like so many times this season, he simply couldn't do it. he could not consistently break down the defense, he switched into this pathetic passive mode he has, and he checked out.

now im of the belief that our coaching and our role players were so abnormally abysmal throughout the course of this season, that it's difficult speculate where a deron/brook duo could take us. i mean, ill say it again, we just lost to a team with nate robinson as its best offensive player. that's... stunning. but if you asked me do i think a team with those two as its best players could beat indiana, or new york, or atlanta, or boston, id have to say yes. but you need to surround them with skill players. the kind of talent we need, high BBIQ roleplayers, is there to be found in FA and late in the draft.

i mean people are talking about trading for boozer? the ****? THAT WILL NOT HELP. and it will make this team even more boring and insufferable to watch. i dont even know if boozer is better than blatche. keep blatche, start him at the four, bring in shooters, try to move hump + whatever for a bad deal and something resembling youth and energy, play marshon and mirza, cut back crash and reggie to 25 and 15 MPG players respectively.. does this get us a title? **** no. but its the first step in allowing our star players the space to play like stars, in establishing a team identity, and building a base for consistent and steady improvement.