Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V

[Dark Faze]

I seriously think EG would trade down with Minny for Derrick WIlliams in a Ves swap. Its an interesting trade proposal. Poster on the trade board even offered Minny's #26. The Wiz could probably get Len/Zeller with that 9th pick.

Would a #3+Ves+Knicks 2nd rounder for #9+Derrick Williams+#26 deal be palatable for the fellow Wiz fans?

Derrick Williams is a proven bust, so his being apart of the deal is irrelevant. He does nothing well, absolutely nothing.

The number #26 is irrelevant, we can trade second rounders or Seraphin and find a way to move up if we want that.

You take Porter and run with it.

No, Williams is still not 22 years old. His PER was 14,5 and he averaged 17.5 and 8.1 per-36 minutes.

Olynyk and Williams for the pick and Vesely seems like a decent deal. The Wizards could stick with Webster and Ariza at three. The two young guys would have time to develop off the bench at 4.

I think trading the pick could really be a good way to improve the team. There are much better trades than this possible.

dude, Williams had a TS% of 51 as a PF and shot 33% from three and 43% from the field.

And he's a PF.

He's been awful.

[Rafael122]

Don't really agree with the knocking down of Bennett to build up Porter.

Defensive play can be taught, as can a post game. Natural talent and athleticism can't be. Otto Porter really does scream 'Evan Turner' to me. Pretty good at just about everything, great at nothing. Maybe there's some hidden upside in there.

It's really a shame Bennett didn't measure at the combine. That would really clear up what I believe is a muddy picture.

I suppose the discussion's all academic though. There's absolutely no chance Ted and EG pass on a Georgetown guy when he's not considered a reach, even if Bennett might be the better prospect.

I think if Turner were drafted 7 or 8, the opinion on him would change. As the #2 pick he's been a colossal disappointment. Turner was also a year or two older than Porter when he was drafted. Simple case of a guy being drafted too high.

And I'm not knocking Bennett, talented offensively but you wonder about the work ethic, motor, willingness to play defense when it seems like he doesn't understand basic defensive fundamentals. It's Blatche 2.0 w/out the attitude problems. I don't want a guy like that on the Wizards. If he's that bad defensively, you're basically starting all over with him and quite frankly the team probably doesn't have the patience for that right now.

[DCZards]

The top two players in this draft are Noel and McLemore, IMO. Assuming they go 1 and 2, I think it comes down to Porter or Bennett (with Len as an outside possibility) for the Zards. Porter is the safest bet. He doesn't have the upside of a Bennett or Len but nor does he carry the risk of being a bust.

I believe Porter will always (quietly) exceed people's expectations. Some of his best moments with the Hoyas came when he was coolly orchestrating the offensive flow and not looking to score. Yet when G'Town needed a hoop Porter usually delivered. He understands that playing winning bball means playing both ends of the court with passion, patience and smarts.

Otto's work ethic, high bball and humility makes him a great fit alongside Wall and Beal.

[Mizerooskie]

Don't really agree with the knocking down of Bennett to build up Porter.

Defensive play can be taught, as can a post game. Natural talent and athleticism can't be. Otto Porter really does scream 'Evan Turner' to me. Pretty good at just about everything, great at nothing. Maybe there's some hidden upside in there.

It's really a shame Bennett didn't measure at the combine. That would really clear up what I believe is a muddy picture.

I suppose the discussion's all academic though. There's absolutely no chance Ted and EG pass on a Georgetown guy when he's not considered a reach, even if Bennett might be the better prospect.

I think if Turner were drafted 7 or 8, the opinion on him would change. As the #2 pick he's been a colossal disappointment. Turner was also a year or two older than Porter when he was drafted. Simple case of a guy being drafted too high.

And I'm not knocking Bennett, talented offensively but you wonder about the work ethic, motor, willingness to play defense when it seems like he doesn't understand basic defensive fundamentals. It's Blatche 2.0 w/out the attitude problems. I don't want a guy like that on the Wizards. If he's that bad defensively, you're basically starting all over with him and quite frankly the team probably doesn't have the patience for that right now.

Blatche without the attitude problems would have been a fantastic player.

And I'd submit that the reason Blatche's defensive game never developed was due to the attitude problems.

In Bennett's case, I've seen no indication anywhere that he has any character issues or isn't coachable. It's not hard to envision a top prospect that's likely dominated every level he's played (especially considering where he's from) never learning to play defense. The kid's only 19 years old. He's still very, very early in his development.

[Rafael122]

Don't really agree with the knocking down of Bennett to build up Porter.

Defensive play can be taught, as can a post game. Natural talent and athleticism can't be. Otto Porter really does scream 'Evan Turner' to me. Pretty good at just about everything, great at nothing. Maybe there's some hidden upside in there.

It's really a shame Bennett didn't measure at the combine. That would really clear up what I believe is a muddy picture.

I suppose the discussion's all academic though. There's absolutely no chance Ted and EG pass on a Georgetown guy when he's not considered a reach, even if Bennett might be the better prospect.

I think if Turner were drafted 7 or 8, the opinion on him would change. As the #2 pick he's been a colossal disappointment. Turner was also a year or two older than Porter when he was drafted. Simple case of a guy being drafted too high.

And I'm not knocking Bennett, talented offensively but you wonder about the work ethic, motor, willingness to play defense when it seems like he doesn't understand basic defensive fundamentals. It's Blatche 2.0 w/out the attitude problems. I don't want a guy like that on the Wizards. If he's that bad defensively, you're basically starting all over with him and quite frankly the team probably doesn't have the patience for that right now.

Blatche without the attitude problems would have been a fantastic player.

And I'd submit that the reason Blatche's defensive game never developed was due to the attitude problems.

In Bennett's case, I've seen no indication anywhere that he has any character issues or isn't coachable. It's not hard to envision a top prospect that's likely dominated every level he's played (especially considering where he's from) never learning to play defense. The kid's only 19 years old. He's still very, very early in his development.

So is Porter, but he seems to be further along in his overall game.

[Mizerooskie]

I think if Turner were drafted 7 or 8, the opinion on him would change. As the #2 pick he's been a colossal disappointment. Turner was also a year or two older than Porter when he was drafted. Simple case of a guy being drafted too high.

And I'm not knocking Bennett, talented offensively but you wonder about the work ethic, motor, willingness to play defense when it seems like he doesn't understand basic defensive fundamentals. It's Blatche 2.0 w/out the attitude problems. I don't want a guy like that on the Wizards. If he's that bad defensively, you're basically starting all over with him and quite frankly the team probably doesn't have the patience for that right now.

Blatche without the attitude problems would have been a fantastic player.

And I'd submit that the reason Blatche's defensive game never developed was due to the attitude problems.

In Bennett's case, I've seen no indication anywhere that he has any character issues or isn't coachable. It's not hard to envision a top prospect that's likely dominated every level he's played (especially considering where he's from) never learning to play defense. The kid's only 19 years old. He's still very, very early in his development.

So is Porter, but he seems to be further along in his overall game.

Right. He's more polished, but doesn't have near the athletic gifts.

If their level of polish was equal, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

[jivelikenice]

Couple of thoughts on some comments I've spotted:
1. Not sure why Porter means no Webster when Ariza is signed for only one year, we already traded Ariza once to LAC (just to have Sterling veto), and Webster has expressed a willingness to come off the bench. Also with Porter's length, its reasonable to assume he gets some minutes in a stretch 4 role. I'm guess Ariza will be shopped agressively. Hopefully for a combo guard.

2. There's no reason to worry about cap room now in terms of re-signing Wall,Beal, and Porter potentially. Porter doesn't project as a max player IMO and if he can play some 4, that makes it more easy to justify his second deal. We might be able to make it work via bigs on shrt term deals and future draft picks

3. Derrick Williams is a horrible idea. He's a bust....why trade for him going on yr 3 of his rookie deal? He has little value IMO.

[TGW]

Bennett is an embarrassingly terrible defender. I honestly hope he's not an option.

[Dat2U]

"Trade the pick for a young big who you wouldn't feel bad about extending at somewhere north of $13 million a year" is far and away my best case.

Monroe, Kanter or Favors, Cousins & Patterson.....these sorts of guys. I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of who.

Ok cool, so let's play

Here's a list of potential options ranked by their WS48. I didn't include guys like MGasol, ADavis, Drummond or Valanciunas. We aren't getting them. I also knocked out anyone 30 or older so no Varejao, ZRandolph or TChandler. Didn't include free agents either since S&Ts can't occur during the draft.

C Brook Lopez ... 24 yrs old ... .191 WS48
F Carmelo Anthony ... 28 yrs old ... .184 WS48
F/C Serge Ibaka ... 23 yrs old ... .181 WS48
F/C Chris Bosh ... 28 yrs old ... .175 WS48
F Kenneth Faried ... 23 yrs old ... .167 WS48
F Ersan Ilyasova ... 25 yrs old ... .159 WS48
F/C Al Horford ... 26 yrs old ... .153 WS48
F David Lee ... 29 yrs old ... .150 WS48
C Larry Sanders ... 24 yrs old ... .149 WS48
C DeAndre Jordan ... 24 yrs old ... .148 WS48
C Joakim Noah ... 27 yrs old ... .145 WS48
F Thaddeus Young ... 24 yrs old ... .136 WS48
C Roy Hibbert ... 26 yrs old ... .129 WS48
C Robin Lopez ... 24 yrs old ... .126 WS48
F Ryan Anderson ... 24 yrs old ... .125 WS48
F LaMarcus Aldridge ... 27 yrs old ... .124 WS48
F Derrick Favors ... 21 yrs old ... .117 WS48
F Taj Gibson ... 27 yrs old ... .109 WS48
F John Henson ... 22 yrs old ... .109 WS48
C Omer Asik ... 26 yrs old ... .108 WS48
C Nikola Vucevic ... 22 yrs old ... .106 WS48
C Greg Monroe ... 22 yrs old ... .105 WS48
C Enes Kanter ... 20 yrs old ... .101 WS48
F Tristan Thompson ... 21 yrs old ... .098 WS48
C Meyers Leonard ... 20 yrs old ... .097 WS48
C DeMarcus Cousins ... 22 yrs old ... .092 WS48
C Marcin Gortat ... 28 yrs old ... .086 WS48
F Derrick Williams ... 21 yrs old ... .076 WS48

My guess of the 5 best options are bolded.

[pancakes3]

Why the vast disparity in Porter's potential vs Bennett's?

Porter is 19 years old, fills up the box score across the board, was one of the most efficient wings in college basketball, and did it in the Big East. He's also taller, has a longer wingspan, and probably has longer reaches/vert+reaches.

Bennett put up great per-minute stats but is 3 months older and has a less polished game.

[doclinkin]

The elephant in the room of the "draft Porter as a core piece" scenario is that we can't afford to keep him, Beal and Wall on their second contracts, pay quality bigs at market rate and stay under the tax.

There are literally no quality teams under the luxury tax with three highly paid wings on the roster. The current CBA does not really allow mid-market teams to have three highly paid wings.
[snip]

Porter's long term fit potential doesn't even come into the equation for me.

The other pachyderm being that Ernie only has to save his bacon this year, and can worry about the future only if the team wins this year.

That said I think it will still come down to Len vs. Porter.

Ernie will flirt with the idea of a trade in order to please his superstar and teammates, but Teddy loves building around high picks, and players who are available on the trade market commonly have some flaw working against them else they would not be available. Granted Ernie loves undervalued players who have proven something in the league and has stated his discomfort with draft picks inasmuch as they have no track record at the next level yet. (This around the Jamison lotto trade, so it could be smokescreen and PR).

But hope sells season tickets, and the promise of the new overrules known quantities in the eyes of most fans. Teddy wants fans to bond with players who will grow and stay with this team, build brand loyalty in the fanbase.

Now if keeping the pick Ernie has said his preference towards size. That true size with athleticism is really rare, and if you are gambling in selecting a lotto player instead of swapping out for a proven player well then you ought to swing for the fences. The fact that Len is local is nice but I think less relevant to Ernie than the Eastern European connection. There is a chauvinism at play here I think, given that Ernie is an immigrant kid himself, a tough scrappy player who overcame lack of talent to succeed. I think he likes the idea of a Euro, has drafted some clunkers. I think I recall he selected 7 footer Frederic Weis (who got a good look at Vinsanity's asscrack in the Olympics, when Carter used his head as toilet paper jumping over him). As a New Yorker at the time I recall lustily booing Ernie's occasional Euro pick that never panned out. He was picking them even before Dirk made a landing strip for finesse bigs who were scared of contact.

Len is the upside pick, good size coupled with surprising dexterity, plausible excuse for lower success, track record of improvement in one of the toughest leagues in the NCAA, and sure it helps that he's a local product.

Working against Len however is his balky kickstand. It would require sanguine reports from the Wiz doctors to let Ernie risk the pick. He's got to play this year, and show more than flashes of ability.

Porter is the safe pick, and will be bloviated about by all the local media. He's also got team connections, and Georgetown connections which satisfies alumnus Teddy. Gtown loyalists buy tickets, already paying to watch games in the Phone Booth. The David Falk thing is overblown, at least with Uncle Abe having left us and ascended. Porter's game sinters well with our perimeter players. He plays defense, rebounds, makes the smart pass, hits a midrange shot as well as an improving long ball and Randy Wittman will love him. He will have an impact in the win/loss column if we don't manage to re-sign Webster, or when we manage to trade the valuable asset of a productive Ariza and his large expiring contract.

I suspect Porter will be the pick. But that's like 53% over Len's 47%. If Len's foot were fine and Ernie had a contract extension Len would be the pick no question.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Derrick Williams is a proven bust, so his being apart of the deal is irrelevant. He does nothing well, absolutely nothing.

The number #26 is irrelevant, we can trade second rounders or Seraphin and find a way to move up if we want that.

You take Porter and run with it.

No, Williams is still not 22 years old. His PER was 14,5 and he averaged 17.5 and 8.1 per-36 minutes.

Olynyk and Williams for the pick and Vesely seems like a decent deal. The Wizards could stick with Webster and Ariza at three. The two young guys would have time to develop off the bench at 4.

I think trading the pick could really be a good way to improve the team. There are much better trades than this possible.

dude, Williams had a TS% of 51 as a PF and shot 33% from three and 43% from the field.

And he's a PF.

He's been awful.

Vesely has been awfuller. .

Drop this. I don't want Derrick Williams--keep it simple and draft BPA.

I will be happy with Porter.

[Deeptu McPullup]

did you really just mention salary 4 years down the road as a reason not to take the BPA lol

OKC could have kept 4 near max players but they chose not to

The way the CBA is you can have 4 near max guys and a bunch of real low salary guys

Wiz would have 3 and thats IF Porter and Beal command near maxes.

Assuming Okafors next contract is only as long as Nenes, we'll be able to afford a decent big once they expire.

I'm not seeing this argument at all.

You most certainly can't have four near max deals and stay under the tax. This is not even a question. OKC very clearly had no ability whatsoever to keep 4 near max guys long term when you factor in annual raises; they are currently struggling with two (effectively) max perimeter players, a fixed salary big and a market rate starting center. This is just going to get worse as the 7.5% increases on Westbrook and Durant come on with the theme being that they turnover those rookie deals and don't resign anyone. There is absolutely no chance in any universe that OKC was going to keep Harden, have decent bigs and not balloon way over the tax. None.

And a team with multiple minimum salary bigs in the rotation is going to get bloody well shellacked come May or June. Bigs who can win in the playoffs are expensive. You can get by with cheaps wings if things break right, but not bigs.

And anyway, the only reason for even talking about young players is because of "4 years down the road". Young players are all about "down the road". Why not trade Wall for Chris Paul if we don't care about four years down the road? Four years down the road is when we should be competing for a championship.

Anyway, my position is that Porter's not the guy with the long term trade potential and only BPA if you want to talk glue guy sort of way. Office-Dipo is the guy who jumps off the page as the upside talent with the best trade value to me while offering similar glue, so take him if we can't get a big. I'm not saying we take a lesser player based on peripheral issues.

Porter's an alright pick even at 3 for me, which means I like him fine, but I believe that this will be our best shot ever to get a franchise big. Getting a franchise big is THE move to get us into championship consideration as far as I'm concerned.

Hopefully that explains my position clearly.

[mhd]

From Chad Ford:

""he Wizards need help at the small forward position and Porter, who played his college ball in Washington, appears to be the perfect fit. With two super backcourt scorers such as John Wall and Bradley Beal, having a forward who's a facilitator like Porter feels just right. The other player to watch carefully for the Wizards is Anthony Bennett. Sources say the Wizards also are very high on Bennett and could opt for his potent offensive game to expand their options at power forward

[stevemcqueen1]

To those who insist Oladipo can't play the 3, you're wrong. It might not be his best position, but he can play it. His max verticle reach was about 2 inches short of the best at the combine and 5 inches longer than 7 foot center Olynyk - and his wingspan was a half inch shorter than Olynyk's. He weighed in at 213 lbs (14 more than Porter) and is very strong.

Agreed. And it's what he played most of the time last season because Hulls and Farrell got so much burn together. He has a strong looking body and tremendous athleticism. Put him on the floor with Wall and Beal.

My instinct is that we should probably go BPA, and Oladipo is better than Porter. And I don't think there would be any personality conflicts.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

To those who insist Oladipo can't play the 3, you're wrong. It might not be his best position, but he can play it. His max verticle reach was about 2 inches short of the best at the combine and 5 inches longer than 7 foot center Olynyk - and his wingspan was a half inch shorter than Olynyk's. He weighed in at 213 lbs (14 more than Porter) and is very strong.

Agreed. And it's what he played most of the time last season because Hulls and Farrell got so much burn together. He has a strong looking body and tremendous athleticism. Put him on the floor with Wall and Beal.

My instinct is that we should probably go BPA, and Oladipo is better than Porter. And I don't think there would be any personality conflicts.

My instinct also says Oladipo will be the BPA.

[sfam]

9

did you really just mention salary 4 years down the road as a reason not to take the BPA lol

OKC could have kept 4 near max players but they chose not to

The way the CBA is you can have 4 near max guys and a bunch of real low salary guys

Wiz would have 3 and thats IF Porter and Beal command near maxes.

Assuming Okafors next contract is only as long as Nenes, we'll be able to afford a decent big once they expire.

I'm not seeing this argument at all.

You most certainly can't have four near max deals and stay under the tax. This is not even a question. OKC very clearly had no ability whatsoever to keep 4 near max guys long term when you factor in annual raises; they are currently struggling with two (effectively) max perimeter players, a fixed salary big and a market rate starting center. This is just going to get worse as the 7.5% increases on Westbrook and Durant come on with the theme being that they turnover those rookie deals and don't resign anyone. There is absolutely no chance in any universe that OKC was going to keep Harden, have decent bigs and not balloon way over the tax. None.

And a team with multiple minimum salary bigs in the rotation is going to get bloody well shellacked come May or June. Bigs who can win in the playoffs are expensive. You can get by with cheaps wings if things break right, but not bigs.

And anyway, the only reason for even talking about young players is because of "4 years down the road". Young players are all about "down the road". Why not trade Wall for Chris Paul if we don't care about four years down the road? Four years down the road is when we should be competing for a championship.

Anyway, my position is that Porter's not the guy with the long term trade potential and only BPA if you want to talk glue guy sort of way. Office-Dipo is the guy who jumps off the page as the upside talent with the best trade value to me while offering similar glue, so take him if we can't get a big. I'm not saying we take a lesser player based on peripheral issues.

Porter's an alright pick even at 3 for me, which means I like him fine, but I believe that this will be our best shot ever to get a franchise big. Getting a franchise big is THE move to get us into championship consideration as far as I'm concerned.

Hopefully that explains my position clearly.

The problem is if there is a franchise big, you're left guessing as to who it is. Bennett looks like the best case, even as a smaller PF. Len may be great. Or Zeller. Or Olynyk. Or Adams. Who knows? Does EG know? I'm guessing not.

Bottom line, EG sucks with lower first round picks. You're better off with someone at the top of this draft. Trade back no lower than #5.

Edit: nevermind. Just realized you're talking about someone like Kanter, not someone in this draft.

[Dat2U]

Yeah, I think Ernie's guy would be Bennett. An undersized tweener PF with a developed face up game and doesn't play a lick of D? Sounds like a guy after Ernie's own heart. Where's Eddie Jordan to co-sign the pick when you need him?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How about trading the pick and Vesely to the Bucks for Henson and their lottery pick?

[stevemcqueen1]

What if you took Burke and had a 3gaurd set like GS at atimes (Klay, Steph, Jack)

Wall and Burke aren't good enough shooters to play together IMO. They're streaky and ball dominant/need to take dribbles before they shoot.