The Bulls this series and in the future

[twix2500]

The Bulls will never be the team they were two years ago. Unless they remodel their team, they will continue to degress if they remain the same.

[GreenHat]

Are you saying Wade's bone bruise is worse than Rose's torn ACL? Don't be that guy

Did I say that ?
Read more carefully.
I said that RIGHT NOW Wade's injury (bone bruise) is worse than what Rose has (lack of muscle memory, whatever the **** that is). Especially since AFAIK you build muscle memory through repetition, so the fastest way for Rose to get that muscle memory would be to play as much as possible.

Well Rose still has a surgically repaired ACL. That's the injury. But no need to argue semantics I get what you are saying now.

A game isn't the only place to regain muscle memory and given the short-handedness of the Bulls it really didn't make sense for him to try to play this year. He's doing the smart thing in not trying to come back just to lose to us.

A bone bruise also doesn't have the chance of getting much worse. Playing on a repaired ACL always has the chance of a catastrophic re-injury. It makes sense for him not to play, especially when the alternative is to get slaughtered by a vastly superior team.

If the roles were reversed I wouldn't want Wade playing, especially if he was that young and we only had like a 10% chance of winning.

[Bidnus]

Since the Bulls seem positioned to be a contender for the next few years and a major rival for Miami in the East, let's take a look at the recent series and the near future. Especially since some Heat fans seem a bit scared of what the Bulls might look like next season.

1. The series was close, but not that close.

There were 2 blowouts and in the 3 games that were close (including the L), the Bulls made a ton of difficult shots, which is not sustainable over a longer period of time, while Miami missed a ton of open shots, especially 3's (looking at you, Shane).

Not to take anything from the Bulls players who played hard, but it was mostly luck that kept those games close.

2. Having Rose, Deng and Hinrich would have helped them, but I doubt it would have put them over the top.
Especially if Wade was healthy.

If Rose and Deng played, it would have cut into Robinson's and Butler's minutes. It's not like you take the current boxscore and you add Rose's and Deng's averages to the Bulls side so they end up with 40 extra points and 10 rebounds.

Not to mention that Robinson played way over his head, and both him and Butler might not have gotten a rhythm had they played much fewer minutes. Then you might have to factor in Rose's impact on offense, as with him the Bulls might move the ball less. I also think Boozer's numbers with Rose are much worse than without him.

Actually, having Hinrich would have hurt them IMO, cause he's a ball stopper on offense. He's overrated as a defender, too.

3. Bulls' future with Rose healthy

Assuming his muscle memory comes back sometime this summer, you would normally expect the Bulls to be back where they were a couple of years ago: a very good regular season team and one of the contenders. Some might even put them above the Heat, citing the emergence of Butler.

There is no doubt the Bulls FO could build a strong contender, as they have the main pieces in place already, but looking at their history of cheapness, I expect them to:
- not keep Robinson
- trade Deng, citing Butler's emergence, in order to save some money
- cut Hamilton (already done)
- try to rebuild the bench on the cheap again - they did it last season, but I don't think they'll get that lucky again

With these in mind, I don't really expect to become contenders, just a very solid regular season team, like the Suns were from 2005 to 2009.

I also wonder when (not if) Thibs' style will start rubbing players the wrong way. He seems to be the same kind of coach as Skiles, a guy who'd get the most out of his teams for a couple of seasons (and especially in the season), but then lose the team and get fired. You can't have a team overachieving all the time. They will get physically and mentally fatigued and will stop responding.

Conclusion: other than the Pacers, the East should stay wide open for the Heat for the next couple of years at least. The Pacers and Bulls will be in position to test the Heat, but if the big 3 stays healthy, the Heat should be in a great position for the near future.

The better team won this series, but you cannot say the Bulls kept three other games close simply because of luck. Chicago, over the last three seasons, has been by far the most successful team against Miami and always gives them fits.

As for Hinrich, the Bulls were 9-21 this season (including playoffs) when Kirk did not play, and he certainly wasn't a ball stopper. That was Nate.

[HIF]

Thibs is brainless.

His team will never win a title because he doesn't know how to manage players.

DRose is and was laways overrated.

Noah and Deng are very good but they've been played into the ground and will never finish a season healthy under Thibs.

Butler is great but Thibs will wear him out next season too.

Bulls will be a regular season juggernaut and a playoff failure again next season.

[GreenHat]

Yep Thibs is brainless.

If he was smarter he could have gotten his medical degree and done Deng's spinal tap himself instead of letting the doctors screw it up.

Noah played less mpg than Lebron. Was Lebron played into the ground and will never finish a season healthy either?

Someone is brainless here but its not Thibs.

[greg4012]

Yep Thibs is brainless.

If he was smarter he could have gotten his medical degree and done Deng's spinal tap himself instead of letting the doctors screw it up.

Noah played less mpg than Lebron. Was Lebron played into the ground and will never finish a season healthy either?

Someone is brainless here but its not Thibs.

Thibs' system and success at getting the most out of his team game in and out during the regular season does 2 things:
1.) wears his team down to the point that they become injury riddled (they play playoff intensity 82 games, that has a toll on the body); and
2.) Inflates Bulls' players; and fans' expectations entering the postseason because they fail to realize that teams like the HEAT kick it to a different gear in the postseason, while the Bulls have already been at their ceiling all season.

[GreenHat]

Except the Heat "kicked it into high gear" dozens of games before the postseason. We basically started playing well when we got Anderson. That was 40+ games ago. Its not like we started playing well right before the postseason. If your narrative is correct (which I doubt) then we are the team that was at our ceiling for more than half the season. Why kick into high gear when you still have half of your warm up laps left?

Again Deng had a mishap with a spinal tap. That has nothing to do with minutes. Noah played less mpg than James. Are you blaming Thibs for Noah not being a cyborg who never gets hurt like Lebron? Rose got hurt on a freak injury which could have happened to anyone, had nothing to do with wear and tear and was during the playoffs anyway so it doesn't fit your narrative.

A good example of this is Wade. Wade is frequently hurt during the playoffs. That's not Spo's fault.

[greg4012]

Except the Heat "kicked it into high gear" dozens of games before the postseason. We basically started playing well when we got Anderson. That was 40+ games ago. Its not like we started playing well right before the postseason. If your narrative is correct (which I doubt) then we are the team that was at our ceiling for more than half the season. Why kick into high gear when you still have half of your warm up laps left?

Again Deng had a mishap with a spinal tap. That has nothing to do with minutes. Noah played less mpg than James. Are you blaming Thibs for Noah not being a cyborg who never gets hurt like Lebron? Rose got hurt on a freak injury which could have happened to anyone, had nothing to do with wear and tear and was during the playoffs anyway so it doesn't fit your narrative.

A good example of this is Wade. Wade is frequently hurt during the playoffs. That's not Spo's fault.

Did you watch the streak? There were SO many games during the streak where the HEAT slept walked through 3 quarters and kicked it into high gear for a quarter or less to pull out the victory. Playing at a high level and giving max effort are 2 very different things. Thibs' philosophy and style of getting 100% from his players night in and night out is what got the Bulls to be the top seed 2 years in a row and higher seeded than their talent this past year. It is a matter of the Bulls having laser focus on every possession, more effort for every rebound, more effort for every loose ball, etc. game in and out during the regular season thus not having another gear to kick it to in the playoffs.

It is the reason that the Bulls can regularly win the regular season series against the HEAT but can't win more than a game against them in the postseason.

All the other stuff you mentioned above is kind of talking in circles and not really related to anything I said.

[GreenHat]

No I didn't watch the streak. What happened?

Look chances are we either won't live up to that level of play at some point in the next to rounds OR we will play at a higher level at the start of next season. If neither happen I can buy that its a calculated plan. Until then I'm going to assume its just a narrative you are trying to create to make us smarter than everyone when in reality our advantage is largely physical. You see it all the time with fans of Jordan and Russell. They want to pretend the advantage is actually mental.

Its ridiculous to blame the injuries on Thibs. Some players just get hurt. Those injuries were not minutes based. An ACL has nothing to do with minutes. A botched spinal tap literally has nothing to do with basketball. You can say Noah's plantar fascitis is minute based but again he played less minutes than Lebron. Its ridiculous to pin the injuries on the coaching strategy.

Look at our team. Lebron never gets hurt, but Miller will get hurt if we played him Lebron's minutes for a week. Wade is constantly banged up. None of that has anything to do with Spo. What you're doing would be the equivalent of blaming Riley for Zo's kidney.

Players are different and freak injuries happen.

The reason why the Bulls couldn't win more than a game is because they were forced to run their offense through Nate Robinson. Don't be so dense.

Other than that we beat them one series where we were literally hitting every three down the stretch. Saying that one series shows something opens the door for the Mavs to say the same thing about us (which wouldn't be true)

[greg4012]

No I didn't watch the streak. What happened?

Look chances are we either won't live up to that level of play at some point in the next to rounds OR we will play at a higher level at the start of next season. If neither happen I can buy that its a calculated plan. Until then I'm going to assume its just a narrative you are trying to create to make us smarter than everyone when in reality our advantage is largely physical. You see it all the time with fans of Jordan and Russell. They want to pretend the advantage is actually mental.

Its ridiculous to blame the injuries on Thibs. Some players just get hurt. Those injuries were not minutes based. An ACL has nothing to do with minutes. A botched spinal tap literally has nothing to do with basketball. You can say Noah's plantar fascitis is minute based but again he played less minutes than Lebron. Its ridiculous to pin the injuries on the coaching strategy.

Look at our team. Lebron never gets hurt, but Miller will get hurt if we played him Lebron's minutes for a week. Wade is constantly banged up. None of that has anything to do with Spo. What you're doing would be the equivalent of blaming Riley for Zo's kidney.

Players are different and freak injuries happen.

The reason why the Bulls couldn't win more than a game is because they were forced to run their offense through Nate Robinson. Don't be so dense.

Other than that we beat them one series where we were literally hitting every three down the stretch. Saying that one series shows something opens the door for the Mavs to say the same thing about us (which wouldn't be true)

You're literally having a conversation with yourself and not acknowledging what I'm saying. The Thibs-injury correlation was a secondary part of my original post and not even mentioned in my second response to you, yet it is virtually all you keep repeating.

I get it, you came up with a "narrative theory" (read common sense) and you're trying to speak like you are operating from some higher-level thinking but your comprehension has kinda failed you.

Are you denying that the Bulls coast less than virtually every team in the league during the regular season? Do you deny that the HEAT spent much time basically every night in cruise control during the streak? Do you deny that you have steered this conversation to an unrecognizable place in an effort to thwart it?