NBA Games Discussion Thread

FAH1223 · Post #1341 » by **FAH1223** » Thu May 23, 2013 4:20 am

montestewart wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:Indiana playing their brand of ball in Miami. But it can't last. The refs will benefit the Heat down the stretch of tight games. Very predictable.

That game was actually pretty unpredictable, other than Miami winning.

Nah it was predictable in that the Heat had the last posession and won off it. Vogel idiotically took out Hibbert cause he got scared of Bosh picking and popping.

Pacers will get swept. Miami is unbeatable as they get all the crucial calls and fortunes of dumb coaching by the opposing team.

20MexicanosIn1Van · Post #1342 » by **20MexicanosIn1Van** » Thu May 23, 2013 4:20 am

1) Why the hell did Vogel take out Hibbert?

2) George Hill is not a point guard. He's a solid player - just not a point guard.

nuposse04 · Post #1343 » by **nuposse04** » Thu May 23, 2013 4:36 am

Vogel's decision to take Hibbert out wasn't the reason they lost, George simply over played. Let LBJ Shoot a jumper. LBJ resorted back to his flopping form as did Haslem, Wade, Battier, and semi new boy Cole is apparently dirty as well. I don't want to see anything bad happen to LBJ, but if the said previous players sans LBJ all suffered a high ankle sprain, I would cheer vehemently.

20MexicanosIn1Van · Post #1344 » by **20MexicanosIn1Van** » Thu May 23, 2013 3:53 pm

There were two plays were where Vogel took out Hibbert at the last second, LeBron's eyes lit up, and he made a b-line to the rim and got wide open lay-ups. After the first play, I don't know how Vogel took Hibbert out. With that said, yes Paul George over-played on that last play. I guess the young gun didn't realize how long 2.2 seconds really is.

Nivek · Post #1345 » by **Nivek** » Thu May 23, 2013 4:57 pm

I didn't have a problem with having Hibbert out of the game in that situation. I can see Vogel's reasoning, and I think it's a reasonable thought on his part that George -- one of the better SF defenders in the game -- would have been able to induce Lebron into a contested jumper considering there were only 2.2 seconds left.

Had he been in the game, I don't think Hibbert would have been in position to contest a shot at the rim anyway. He'd have had to follow Bosh when the Heat cleared the lane, and it would have been a tough rotation.

Pacers got beat by a well-designed play, Lebron being the best in the game, and poor execution from George.

GhostsOfGil · Post #1346 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Thu May 23, 2013 5:13 pm

Outside that last play, PG really impressed me. He cut off Lebron's drive on 3 consecutive plays. I dont think I've seen anyone do that. ever.

Higga · Post #1347 » by **Higga** » Thu May 23, 2013 5:50 pm

You can't bench Hibbert there. I know the reasoning, he can't guard Bosh/pick and roll D, but I'll give them that everytime over Lebron getting to the basket undeterred. I mean you KNEW Lebron was gonna drive for a layup, you can't take out your best rim protector, a guy you(referring to Coach Vogel here)said is the best rim protector in the league. Just a bonehead coach move.

Sucks because this was probably the Pacers best shot at making this a series. I don't see this going past 5 games now, though I do think the games will be fairly close.

Nivek · Post #1348 » by **Nivek** » Thu May 23, 2013 7:29 pm

Higga wrote:You can't bench Hibbert there. I know the reasoning, he can't guard Bosh/pick and roll D, but I'll give them that everytime over Lebron getting to the basket undeterred.

That wasn't the goal of the defense. George made a mistake that gave Lebron that opening.

I mean you KNEW Lebron was gonna drive for a layup, you can't take out your best rim protector, a guy you(referring to Coach Vogel here)said is the best rim protector in the league. Just a bonehead coach move.

No, you didn't. The tendency of most players taking that shot is to take a jumper. That's been Lebron's tendency on last-second shots as well. Vogel thought George would be able to stay with Lebron and contest the jumper. George didn't execute and Lebron got a lane to the basket.

PLUS, Hibbert probably would not have been in position to protect the rim even if he'd been on the floor. He'd have followed Bosh to the weak side and would have been on the edge of the paint -- right where Sam Young was. Hibbert might have recognized Lebron was driving a split second quicker, but he's not as physically quick as Young. And Lebron's drive was so quick -- he actually seemed to start it before he even caught the pass -- that it would have been tough for anyone to contest it at the rim who wasn't already standing under the rim.

All that said, maybe the right strategy would have been to station Hibbert under the basket and tell him just to stay there to contest anything in the paint. Let Bosh float to the corner or flash to the elbow. An open FT line jumper from Bosh is probably a 50% shot. Although...a contested jumper from Lebron is probably a 40% proposition. And there couldn't have been an illegal defense call because it's a 3-second count and there were only 2.2 seconds on the clock.

On yet another hand, an uncontested layup from Lebron is a 90% shot (at least), so there's that. Of course, Vogel was thinking that one of the top perimeter defenders in the league would be able to keep Lebron from getting a free run at the basket.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #1349 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Thu May 23, 2013 7:45 pm

With two seconds left you pick your poison and double Lebron. Make him pass or shoot a contested shot. Make a jump shot beat you, even if it's Bosh wide open. Percentages say lightly contest and give them the three. Chances are less than 50-50 that it goes in.

It's 20/20 hindsight but Hibbert has to be inside at the rim. Yes, station him underneath and just zone defend. If Bosh got a corner three or he hit from outside then so be it.

Nivek · Post #1350 » by **Nivek** » Thu May 23, 2013 8:00 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:With two seconds left you pick your poison and double Lebron. Make him pass or shoot a contested shot. Make a jump shot beat you, even if it's Bosh wide open. Percentages say lightly contest and give them the three. Chances are less than 50-50 that it goes in.

It's 20/20 hindsight but Hibbert has to be inside at the rim. Yes, station him underneath and just zone defend. If Bosh got a corner three or he hit from outside then so be it.

All right coach, who should the Heat leave open?

With an open jumper:

- Wade -- 50%
- Bosh -- 50%
- Ray Allen -- 55-60%
- Battier (quick pass back) -- 45-50%

Vs. what was SUPPOSED to be a contested jumper by Lebron, which is about a 40% shot.

Post #1351 » by **montestewart** » Thu May 23, 2013 8:19 pm

I was surprised that Hibbert was out, but I'm not the coach, or a coach at all, as far as I know, and George (and some others) did a pretty good job up to that point. LeBJ's stat line and game winner bely the frustration he showed at times. Bosh and Wade were hitting, Andersen had the game of his life, some key calls went against the Pacers, and they lost by one point in OT. Pacers looked really good through most of that whacky and entertaining game.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #1352 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Thu May 23, 2013 11:53 pm

Nivek wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:With two seconds left you pick your poison and double Lebron. Make him pass or shoot a contested shot. Make a jump shot beat you, even if it's Bosh wide open. Percentages say lightly contest and give them the three. Chances are less than 50-50 that it goes in.

It's 20/20 hindsight but Hibbert has to be inside at the rim. Yes, station him underneath and just zone defend. If Bosh got a corner three or he hit from outside then so be it.

All right coach, who should the Heat leave open?

With an open jumper:

- Wade -- 50%
- Bosh -- 50%
- Ray Allen -- 55-60%
- Battier (quick pass back) -- 45-50%

Vs. what was SUPPOSED to be a contested jumper by Lebron, which is about a 40% shot.

Wade was out on fouls. I think leave Battier because you guess he's the third option.

George and others just didn't defend the last play well. It happened that way and Hibbert might not have rotated over fast enough or he might have fouled.

I just wish the last shot was a jump shot.

FAH1223 · Post #1353 » by **FAH1223** » Fri May 24, 2013 5:37 am

GhostsOfGil wrote:Outside that last play, PG really impressed me. He cut off Lebron's drive on 3 consecutive plays. I dont think I've seen anyone do that. ever.

George is very, very good defensively. But his inexperience and youth showed a number of times in that game. That last play was just another one of his mental errors.

George also had many lanes to the hoop throughout the game, he passed up on a lot of looks at the rim. He should be more aggressive since Miami lacks shot blocking.

Post #1354 » by **montestewart** » Sat May 25, 2013 2:42 am

Inadvertent/mistaken backcourt violation call results in Pacers having to inbound from the backcourt into the front court, essentially I bounding from the corner. Seems like an unfair burden to impose on a team when it was the refs mistake.

Post #1355 » by **nate33** » Sat May 25, 2013 3:22 am

This has been a fantastic game. Absolutely great defense on both ends. I have so much respect for Indiana right now. Larry Bird did a great job putting that team together. They mesh perfectly.

All they need is an upgrade at SG.

Post #1356 » by **montestewart** » Sat May 25, 2013 3:23 am

I think I have Pacermania

hands11 · Post #1357 » by **hands11** » Sat May 25, 2013 3:32 am

nate33 wrote:This has been a fantastic game. Absolutely great defense on both ends. I have so much respect for Indiana right now. Larry Bird did a great job putting that team together. They mesh perfectly.

All they need is an upgrade at SG.

Nasty D down the stretch. Thats what 2nd round and on playoffs is all about.

Glad Wizards are building a D focused team.

Man, Roy Hibbard has really grown up and filled out from the guy I saw drafted.
And just one pick separated Hibbert and McGee.

What a difference 5 years can make. He is coming into his prime. He actually looks more athletic now then he did when he was drafted.

Illuminaire · Post #1358 » by **Illuminaire** » Sat May 25, 2013 3:44 am

I remember arguing loudly about how McGee and Hibbert were about the same player. That was about two years ago, and I think I was mostly right... then. Maybe. Probably not. My goodness has Hibbert grown as a smart, team defender and all-around awesome big.

Javale... not so much. Imma go try to wipe the red off my face now.

GhostsOfGil · Post #1359 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Sat May 25, 2013 3:55 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFI4CJdX66Y[/youtube]

hands11 · Post #1360 » by **hands11** » Sat May 25, 2013 4:01 am

Illuminaire wrote:I remember arguing loudly about how McGee and Hibbert were about the same player. That was about two years ago, and I think I was mostly right... then. Maybe. Probably not. My goodness has Hibbert grown as a smart, team defender and all-around awesome big.

Javale... not so much. Imma go try to wipe the red off my face now.

I remember there were lots of questions about Hibbert. That draft I was locking in on the Wizards getting a center and posed the question, which would you take.

There was debate both ways. And the same things came up. Roy was in the Princeton and a better passer. McGee was skinner and more athletic.

But Hibbert was taken a pick early so that took the decision out of the Wizards hands.