Does LeBron surpass Bird with a great title run?

[colts18]

If LeBron dominates in the next 2 rounds and loses like 1-2 games while averaging 30/7/7, would he surpass Bird on the all-time list? Bird played 9 years before he got injured and washed up. LeBron has played 10 years so far with his rookie year not adding much value. Will LeBron's last 9 years matchup well vs. Bird's first 9 years?

Career playoffs averages:
LeBron: 28-9-7, .567 TS%, 27.1 PER, .238 WS/48, 114 O rating
Bird: 24-10-7, .551 TS%, 21.4 PER, .173 WS/48, 114 O rating

[E-Balla]

No. Lebron's averaging 24/7/7 and the team is 9-1. If the team loses more than 1-2 games before winning it all that will be a disappointment. His playoff run (barring Lebron jumping into 09 ECF mode) is already worse than last year and his season overall (counting postseason) is probably worse too (even if he ends the playoffs averaging 27/7/7 with a team that's 16-2).

He'd come very close to my top 10 with a win this season topping Dr. J and (maybe) KG depending on how dominant he looks individually.

[JordansBulls]

It all depends on how you weigh Larry Bird's losses with HCA. He has the most series losses with it of all the all time greats.

[E-Balla]

Also comparing first 9 seasons Bird comes out way on top but his first 9 seasons is basically every year of relevancy for Bird.

[colts18]

He'd come very close to my top 10 with a win this season topping Dr. J and (maybe) KG depending on how dominant he looks individually.

I think he beats out KG and Dr. J with a win this year in dominating fashion. LeBron has 4 all-time seasons (09,10, 12, 13). Dr. J only has like 2 comparable seasons (74, 76) while KG only has 1 season on that level (04).

LeBron in the playoffs from 09-13:
29-9-7, .589 TS%, 29 PER, 118 O rating

That is a great 5 year run

[E-Balla]

He'd come very close to my top 10 with a win this season topping Dr. J and (maybe) KG depending on how dominant he looks individually.

I think he beats out KG and Dr. J with a win this year in dominating fashion. LeBron has 4 all-time seasons (09,10, 12, 13). Dr. J only has like 2 comparable seasons (74, 76) while KG only has 1 season on that level (04).

LeBron in the playoffs from 09-13:
29-9-7, .589 TS%, 29 PER, 118 O rating

That is a great 5 year run

I wouldn't give Lebron 2010. That Boston series wasn't greatness.

So I give Lebron 3 (including 13) top level seasons and most likely 1 season on the next level down (2010).

Dr. J has 74 and 76 on that top level but he also has 80 and 82 on that next level down plus longevity.

KG has 04 on the top level but I can't help but to think that if we saw more of him in the playoffs at his peak he'd have more top class seasons. From 01-03 he averaged 24.5/15.2/4.8 on 54 TS in 3 series (all losses). In 04 (the great playoff year) he averaged 24.3/14.6/5.1 on 51 TS. Put KG from 01-05 on teams good enough to advance and he'd have at least 2 more top level years.

[colts18]

I wouldn't give Lebron 2010. That Boston series wasn't greatness.

So I give Lebron 3 (including 13) top level seasons and most likely 1 season on the next level down (2010).

Dr. J has 74 and 76 on that top level but he also has 80 and 82 on that next level down plus longevity.

KG has 04 on the top level but I can't help but to think that if we saw more of him in the playoffs at his peak he'd have more top class seasons. From 01-03 he averaged 24.5/15.2/4.8 on 54 TS in 3 series (all losses). In 04 (the great playoff year) he averaged 24.3/14.6/5.1 on 51 TS. Put KG from 01-05 on teams good enough to advance and he'd have at least 2 more top level years.

LeBron 2010 has a case for the greatest regular season in history. Certainly top 5 or 10. He played great in the playoffs until the final 3 games. Thats enough to be a top level season though not on the level of 09 or 13.

[nikomCH]

I wouldn't give Lebron 2010. That Boston series wasn't greatness.

So I give Lebron 3 (including 13) top level seasons and most likely 1 season on the next level down (2010).

Dr. J has 74 and 76 on that top level but he also has 80 and 82 on that next level down plus longevity.

KG has 04 on the top level but I can't help but to think that if we saw more of him in the playoffs at his peak he'd have more top class seasons. From 01-03 he averaged 24.5/15.2/4.8 on 54 TS in 3 series (all losses). In 04 (the great playoff year) he averaged 24.3/14.6/5.1 on 51 TS. Put KG from 01-05 on teams good enough to advance and he'd have at least 2 more top level years.

LeBron 2010 has a case for the greatest regular season in history. Certainly top 5 or 10. He played great in the playoffs until the final 3 games. Thats enough to be a top level season though not on the level of 09 or 13.

Meh LeBron got to feast on an absolutely atrocious Bulls team in the 1st round and then had only two games against the Celtics that you could consider really good. I don't value those playoffs very much at all

[E-Balla]

It's definetly an arguable point but the first series (Chicago) was nothing. They even won in game 5 when Lebron played very meh putting up 19/10/9 on 52 TS while Shaq and Jamison combined for 39 (15/23). When I look at that year I look at just the Boston series. He floundered and lost a very winnable series. In game 2 Cleveland was out scored 52-38 at half (Lebron had 24/7/4 and 5 tos) and in the last 3 games (all losses) Lebron put up 21/11/8 with 6 turnovers a game (47 TS, 87 ORTG).

So sure he dominated the -1.63 SRS Bulls but he lost in spectacular fashion to Boston.

[GSP]

No......
If I ranked their seasons

2013
1986
2009
2010
1987
1988
2012
1985
1984
2011
1983
2008
1982
1981
2006
1989
1990
1980
2005
2007
2004

[colts18]

No......
If I ranked their seasons

2013
1986
2009
2010
1987
1988
2012
1985
1984
2011
1983
2008
1982
1981
2006
1989
1990
1980
2005
2007
2004

How do you rank LeBron's 2007 season so low when he carried a team starting Drew Gooden to the finals?

[NaturalThunder]

He needs to do something really special the rest of the playoffs in my opinion, simply because he was pretty underwhelming the first two rounds. Not that the 24-7-7 on 62% TS was bad, but it wasn't anything special; not in terms of being compared to other top 10 caliber players. I know that had something to do with the competition he faced which, to be blunt, was awful, so he mostly coasted; but for him to pass Bird based on his playoff performance this year, he needs to take his play up a couple of levels.

As for how many wins or losses he has being an indicator, it's tough to use that as a barometer given how poor (historically speaking) his competition has been. He wouldn't face a 50+ win team until the Finals: a 38 win team in the first round, a 45 win team in the second round without two very key players; and a 49 win team (who was 9th this year in SRS) in the ECF. LeBron obviously has no control of that, but that has to be taken into consideration when judging this playoff run.

Of course that excludes how brilliant he was in the regular season. You'd obviously have to use that in determining something like this, because it was arguably the greatest peak season by a perimeter player EVER. But just putting the playoff run, and level of competition faced under the microscope, it's been pretty underwhelming thus far in my opinion.

[GSP]

No......
If I ranked their seasons

2013
1986
2009
2010
1987
1988
2012
1985
1984
2011
1983
2008
1982
1981
2006
1989
1990
1980
2005
2007
2004

How do you rank LeBron's 2007 season so low when he carried a team starting Drew Gooden to the finals?

They mostly won games because of their strong defense. Lebron was their whole offense for sure but he wasnt the offensive player he was in 08 or even the year before in 06. The east was really bad that year and the first two teams they beat had negative Srs. If u put 06 Lebron that year they would have made the finals too and same with 08 they would have won 2 games with 08 Lebron. He exploded against Pistons everyone remembers but that werent the same pistons the next year or the year before. His defense was averagehe had 25% shooting and 6 turnovers games in the finals and they still only lost by single digits b/c of great team D that Lebron wasnt big part of. Lebron just wasnt as impactful as the team results show IMO.

[Joao Saraiva]

LeBron already is ahead of Bird. Sorry to tell you that.

[Woodsanity]

Were comparing Lebron to Bird here. Lebron's playoff blunders pale to Bird's so not sure how people are talking about his blunders and ignoring Bird's blunders. Bird's production in the playoffs plummets much like the likes of DRob, Karl Malone, etc. That cannot be ignored.

That being said I would say yes.

[john248]

I wouldn't put him past Bird. Another title where he's a major contributor will do that. I'd have him at #11 just after Hakeem if he wins a chip this year.

[TheChosen618]

Yes.

Lebron at his peak (2012, 2013, and possibly 2009) was better than Bird ever was. Bird's greatness comes from his peak play, not his longevity. After this season, Lebron will have practically matched Bird's longevity as a superstar so because of that, he will ultimately surpass him.

[NaturalThunder]

Yes.

Lebron at his peak (2012, 2013, and possibly 2009) was better than Bird ever was. Bird's greatness comes from his peak play, not his longevity. After this season, Lebron will have practically matched Bird's longevity as a superstar so because of that, he will ultimately surpass him.

What bothers me is you say it so defiantly, like it's not even up for debate.

[tonyreyes123]

LeBron is already better than Bird.

[orangeparka]

I could've sworn the last Lebron vs Bird thread, the consensus was that Lebron had already passed him...