Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V

[hands11]

Watching games like this game 2 of the ECF, makes me wonder if the bigman is about to make a return in the NBA. We can hang with teams like the Pacers, but what is more crucial in half court sets? Superior defensive big men or big time SFs....It really seems like Porter/Noel or bust.

If you notice which teams did well in the playoffs this year, it was the ones that had great defensive bigs... and Miami. Worth pointing out that Miami got to play the Bucks and a totally depleted Bulls team BTW.

Gasol, Duncan, and Hibbert are all still in it and Noah powered his team way beyond where people expected.

But it's also worth pointing out that the two best players in the game are forwards and Carmelo was a top 5 player this season. They can single handedly power their teams to the postseason and even win some games on their own once they get there. So I don't know which position is the most valuable. All I do know is that one guy can't win a series by himself and the best teams still win. Not Durant. Not Melo. And not even LeBron either. We need Beal to be a star for John to play with throughout his entire career.

Paul George is really the second coming of Scottie Pippen. If that team had better guards... man they'd be good. CP3 should go to Indy instead of signing in LA. He could push them over the top.

You're pretty much giving the rationale to swing for the fences for an impact player instead of the safe choice. I think only Noel and Bennett qualify as having a reasonable shot at that level of potential.

Read my long post above and let me know if you still think that. I think both those players will have the very little impact on good playoff quality teams over the next 2-3 years.

Wizards are going to the playoffs next year. Book it. And if they play it right, they will be there lots of years to follow. Bennett will look best going to crap team where he can post fluff stats playing losing basketball. Some place like PHX

[stevemcqueen1]

Here's a question:

Can Bennett be considered a SF who sometimes plays big? Notice I didn't say tweener. There are tweeners and then, every so often along comes a SF who can also play big. They're rare. Is he that rarity?

Because if he is, that might seal the deal.

He has a good jumper, we know that. He has quickness and explosion. Can he handle being on the wing most of the time and flourish, with occasional dips into the paint to post-up?

To be able to play SF, he'll have to be able to defend SFs. That's the determinant. Offensively you can use him where ever you want. People won't be able to guard him easily. You'll need someone strong and big and fast.

I've seen him keep smaller players in front of him but Bennett is a rebounder and a brute. I think he should play at PF and stay nearer to the basket so he can clean up the glass.

[truwizfan4evr]

People on this board seem to want Bennett more than porter now? I just don't understand the hype around Bennett he just a lazy defender and a under size big with no position in nba. Picking Bennett will be a huge mistake for wizards I would rather take a risk on Len then Bennett if Noel and Porter is gone at 3.

[stevemcqueen1]

Watching games like this game 2 of the ECF, makes me wonder if the bigman is about to make a return in the NBA. We can hang with teams like the Pacers, but what is more crucial in half court sets? Superior defensive big men or big time SFs....It really seems like Porter/Noel or bust.

If you notice which teams did well in the playoffs this year, it was the ones that had great defensive bigs... and Miami. Worth pointing out that Miami got to play the Bucks and a totally depleted Bulls team BTW.

Gasol, Duncan, and Hibbert are all still in it and Noah powered his team way beyond where people expected.

But it's also worth pointing out that the two best players in the game are forwards and Carmelo was a top 5 player this season. They can single handedly power their teams to the postseason and even win some games on their own once they get there. So I don't know which position is the most valuable. All I do know is that one guy can't win a series by himself and the best teams still win. Not Durant. Not Melo. And not even LeBron either. We need Beal to be a star for John to play with throughout his entire career.

Paul George is really the second coming of Scottie Pippen. If that team had better guards... man they'd be good. CP3 should go to Indy instead of signing in LA. He could push them over the top.

You're pretty much giving the rationale to swing for the fences for an impact player instead of the safe choice. I think only Noel and Bennett qualify as having a reasonable shot at that level of potential.

That wasn't my intent. I think those kinds of predictions are a myth. "John Wall, Derrick Favors, and DeMarcus Cousins are the only guys with multiple All Star game potential in the class." Greg Monroe and Paul George become total studs.

"Evan Turner is a high quality #2 on a contender, he's a Scottie Pippen clone." Three years in and he's not even close to that.

I think the best you can do from where we sit is identify the skills each player has, speculate on what skills they could develop, and see how it all fits within the system of your team.

Saying "Bennett is the only potential multiple AS" player in the class like Chad Ford did means nothing to me. We don't even know what team he's going to play for. What if he goes to a team that's loaded at his position and he struggles to see the court? Then his potential is zero All Star games. And what if Porter goes to a team where he's a perfect fit and gets a featured role and puts up great stats? Then he's the multi-AS guy. AS games come as a direct result of on court production. And on court production is very much the result of the systems and situations in which player's play.

Anyway, I don't think we need to go out and find some future franchise player to come in and be "the guy." We've got John Wall.

[willbcocks]

If we want someone who's undersized with potential, draft Oladipo and play him as a 3 alongside Beal and Wall. Oladipo has a higher upside then Bennett, works harder than almost anyone, and is very athletic. I still prefer Porter, but if we're going for upside, let's at least do it right.

[jivelikenice]

^Bennett is growing on me. But if we are looking at pure upside, why not McLemore or Oladipo.

[nuposse04]

If we want someone who's undersized with potential, draft Oladipo and play him as a 3 alongside Beal and Wall. Oladipo has a higher upside then Bennett, works harder than almost anyone, and is very athletic. I still prefer Porter, but if we're going for upside, let's at least do it right.

I call BS on that. You want to argue that he's a safer pic and has a better chance of reaching his potential, then thats fine but higher upside? He's tony Allen with a jumpshot. Not as good defensively either. Bennett actually can become a star. I don't see a star in the making at all in Oladipo. He might be a top 10 SG one day but that is more by default as the SGs in the nba are so weak.

[LyricalRico]

But if we are looking at pure upside, why not McLemore or Oladipo.

Because we already have Beal. I'm not interested in any more guards. We need a forward or a big IMO.

[jivelikenice]

But if we are looking at pure upside, why not McLemore or Oladipo.

Because we already have Beal. I'm not interested in any more guards. We need a forward or a big IMO.

But what if they're better players than what's on the board? I just think you can play either 30 minutes a game having them back up Beal and play alongside of him for stretches. I mean you had Miami playing Wade at SF at the end of the game, NY played Shumpert at SF a lot, etc....

[hands11]

Hands, regarding the return of the center to prominence, far more likely I think is a continued emphasis on speed, meaning centers like Noah will make a far larger impact than folks like Hibbert. I think the longer players also have a bigger advantage today than previously due to the more open style of play and associated officiating. Someone like Len may not have the speed to really impact things as much as a smaller build but long and fast center. The game has moved away from the Detroit style beef brothers thing. If true, this means that mobile but big PFs should be fairly valuable as well.

Centers may be showing their worth, but their ideal composition is different now. I liken it to the change in Cadillacs over the years. No longer is the Seville a huge, long, luxury monstrosity, now its a sleaker sports sedan. Hibbert looks like a Caddy of the 70s, an Eldorado if you will. Noel looks like a 2013 XTS.

I think the opposite. Lets remember we had this debate and see who is right this year, next and the year after.

Caddys are going back in style.

Like I said, I remember when this kind of center conversation we are having now was about PG. Now looks around the league. There all kind of impactful PGs. Parkers, Rondos, CP3s, Wall, Westbrook, Lillard, Lawson, Curry, Conley, D Rose, etc, etc.

As I posted in the long post, what is a Noel going to do against a power combination at Center and PF. His only advantage is in transition and come playoff team and title time, LAL show time is the style that is out of date. He will be able to have some impact but not starter quality impact. Not unless he adds 45 lbs.

You gotta be better then the best and right now and moving forward, thats looking like MEM and INDY are going to be on that list. GS is in there, they have a big. And if ATL gets Howard, there another team you have to match up with. Plus teams like the Wizards are on the rise. DET has their bigs.

I see the top teams over the next 5 years having the long and strong bigs more than the speedy ones.

[verbal8]

If we want someone who's undersized with potential, draft Oladipo and play him as a 3 alongside Beal and Wall. Oladipo has a higher upside then Bennett, works harder than almost anyone, and is very athletic. I still prefer Porter, but if we're going for upside, let's at least do it right.

I think Oladipo would not be a bad choice if Porter is off the board or seems like he doesn't have the upside to justify the pick. I think you can get by for 1 season just playing Beal and Oladipo, I think a combination of back-up SG, a Beal/Oladipo backcourt and some small ball could be enough minutes for even a very good rookie. I think he likely could have the highest trade value, both draft night and say next off-season. Even if Bennett is a true star, I don't think it will happen from day 1. I think Oladipo will step in as a very defender from day 1 and improve offensively as he adjusts to the NBA. I can see Oladipo probably more so than any other player being a significant part of a good team as a rookie. McLemore might be the same story, but there is something about him that just doesn't scream NBA star to me.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I understand the Bennett support & those that want to add a stretch 4.

But I'd much rather come out of the draft with Porter and Muscala. Fills two needs with highly skilled, high IQ, high effort players. This is very do-able and both of them would be great fits on this team.

[hands11]

Here's a question:

Can Bennett be considered a SF who sometimes plays big? Notice I didn't say tweener. There are tweeners and then, every so often along comes a SF who can also play big. They're rare. Is he that rarity?

Because if he is, that might seal the deal.

He has a good jumper, we know that. He has quickness and explosion. Can he handle being on the wing most of the time and flourish, with occasional dips into the paint to post-up?

For me, Bennett doesn't fit here.

This is Wall and Beal team. In order for Bennett to have his best impact he needs to be at least the 2nd option. Wall and Beal are options 1 and 2 as they should be and will be for a long while. If we are looking for a Nene replacement longer term, I don't think Bennett is it. And we don't even have to cross that bridge right now. Lets see what Nene looks like with a good off season of rest. If he returns healthy, we already have options 1, 2 and 3.

What they need most is a tall defensive strong center with some scoring ability. That is a Len with a few more pounds and he has already proven his ability to add weight. Or Adams.

That is the biggest need. 2nd is a J Jack type 3rd guard. Add those two things and they are a 2nd round playoff team contending but held back by playoff inexperience. I would put them up against all four of these remaining teams.

Even with Wall and Beal, we don't have the scoring punch we need. Whether Bennett is second or third, or more likely Wall becomes the third option, we need another big time scorer if we plan to go far. I don't think Bennett is an SF, but he certainly could fit here. We would want an Ariza type on SF to ensure solid D, but we flat out need better scoring options. And we flat out need a third big - Bennett fits that well.

Here is my take. To start the year last year, most people had no vision of this team being any good given the pieces it had. Wall was a huge? Couldnt shoot and couldnt even change speeds. Beal an unknown promising rookie that was probably to short and people wondered if he could even shoot. Everyone hated Trevor A and Okafor. Webster was a huge ? And then a long line of ??? Crawford, Singleton, Kevin S, Ves. And of course Nene. Could Witty coach ?

And the start of the year sucked so most answered all those questions was bust, no, crap we suck, kill EG. But as players got healthy and they gelled, lots of those questions got answered and in many cases, about a well or better than anyone expected.

Wall did add change of pace and then later a jumper. Report to have Nash/Parker type IQ as a PG
Beal was THE REAL BEAL BEAST BEAL WITH IT. A franchise level rookie. Him and Wall are two franchise players.
Webby was mostly healthy and a top 3 ball shooter in the league and locker room mentor.
Trevor A and Okafor played very solid but even then they still didn't have career years. They did gel though.
Crawford got shipped off. More locker room clean up on isle 5. Thats over.
Randy got better with more players healthy but he keep it together in the worst of times.
As a team they were one of the best 3 ball shooting teams and a top defending team. That's SA.

Kool-Aid drinking happened. They went on a tear. They beat the best teams in the league. The teams we saw in the playoffs and some that are still there.

But I don't think people have fully grasped that or they forgot or they don't believe to begin with. Because as huge as the turnaround was, we just got a small taste of it. The best of that squad still didn't get to play that much together. Beal got hurt. And at the end of it all, they still didn't make the playoffs because of the crap start. So you have those that only look at the end result which is the record. But thats not a in depth evaluation of where they really are moving forward.

But even as is, I would put this Wizards roster healthy up against GS, ATL, NY, MEM, etc and feel good they would be doing battle. And if they had that 7-0 long strong center and J Jack type 3rd guard, I wouldn't even cap how far they could go. Short of them having team experience in the playoffs, they could contend if they added those two pieces.

This team is so much farther along them I think most here give them credit for. I know there are questions still. Nene is a big one and what to do with Trevor A and Okafor are also but TA and Okafor don't have to be an issue. Thats just a projection. Webby wants to be here. And Wall and Beal are studs for a long time. We already have our top scoring talent.

I wouldn't mess with what they have. I would smartly add to it by filling the two places they need depth. Center and 3rd guard. And another strong post rebounder. A Jackie Carmichael or Mike Muscala, Colton Iverson. And regardless of how they do that, they team is still young compared to the teams that actually go deep in the playoffs.

This party is just getting started. Wall and Beal. That is a stud pairing right there.

[hands11]

Here's a question:

Can Bennett be considered a SF who sometimes plays big? Notice I didn't say tweener. There are tweeners and then, every so often along comes a SF who can also play big. They're rare. Is he that rarity?

Because if he is, that might seal the deal.

He has a good jumper, we know that. He has quickness and explosion. Can he handle being on the wing most of the time and flourish, with occasional dips into the paint to post-up?

To be able to play SF, he'll have to be able to defend SFs. That's the determinant. Offensively you can use him where ever you want. People won't be able to guard him easily. You'll need someone strong and big and fast.

I've seen him keep smaller players in front of him but Bennett is a rebounder and a brute. I think he should play at PF and stay nearer to the basket so he can clean up the glass.

Booker could defend him. I'm sure there is a decent list of NBA players that could. Faried also.

[hands11]

If we want someone who's undersized with potential, draft Oladipo and play him as a 3 alongside Beal and Wall. Oladipo has a higher upside then Bennett, works harder than almost anyone, and is very athletic. I still prefer Porter, but if we're going for upside, let's at least do it right.

Yes. If thats what how you want to swing for, pick VO instead. He fits the style of this team right out of the box. You already know that. Randy would love him. And he isn't a primary scorer right now so he would fit with Wall and Beal just fine.

But before VO, I would go CJM. He has the offensive to replace Beal if he goes down. Could even step in for Wall with much less drop off then we could get with Price or Temple stepping in.

If you want a guard, CJM is the answer.
If you want a center, you go Len or Adams or you trade some how to get on of the big ones I listed.

I love Otto and VO but I just don't see them as the better fits for what we need.

[hands11]

^Bennett is growing on me. But if we are looking at pure upside, why not McLemore or Oladipo.

Then see a doctor and have is cut off. And quickly.

[hands11]

If we want someone who's undersized with potential, draft Oladipo and play him as a 3 alongside Beal and Wall. Oladipo has a higher upside then Bennett, works harder than almost anyone, and is very athletic. I still prefer Porter, but if we're going for upside, let's at least do it right.

I think Oladipo would not be a bad choice if Porter is off the board or seems like he doesn't have the upside to justify the pick. I think you can get by for 1 season just playing Beal and Oladipo, I think a combination of back-up SG, a Beal/Oladipo backcourt and some small ball could be enough minutes for even a very good rookie. I think he likely could have the highest trade value, both draft night and say next off-season. Even if Bennett is a true star, I don't think it will happen from day 1. I think Oladipo will step in as a very defender from day 1 and improve offensively as he adjusts to the NBA. I can see Oladipo probably more so than any other player being a significant part of a good team as a rookie. McLemore might be the same story, but there is something about him that just doesn't scream NBA star to me.

Exactly.

I would add McLemore could have that same impact if he lands some place like Barnes did. If so, he could have the same impact in year one.

But with VO and CJM types, you can send them to any of the playoff teams and they can contribute in year one.

[blazinskillz]

I'm on team Bennett. A Good defensive coach like Randy Wittman can help someone like Bennett. The NBA game is getting faster and good defensive schemes can hide a bad defensive player. Look at Dirk, was in the running for worst defensive bigman for years, once Avery Johnson took over, he improved tremendously. Don't get caught up on height. I would love to know his standing reach but his wingspan is telling enough. So many face palms this year watching Wall kick it to Nene and watching Nene hesitate and then pumpfake, then travel or dish it with 8 secs or less left on the clock instead of shooting it. Or the pick and rolls with Okafor ewwwwwwww. Bennett screams buckets to me. We need a young bigman that can score efficiently down low. Porter won't likely get to maximize his potential here because the team is gonna be built around Wall and Beal. Not a lot of touches. His lateral quickness isn't great and will have trouble staying infront of a lot of the physically imposing SF in the league.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

I'm not sure why you guys don't think Bennett can't play SF. PF/SF is becoming a hybrid position anyway. Bennett's game is similar to Carmelo's and he played both forward positions this season. Bennett attacks from the perimeter, can handle the ball and crate off the dribble, and can also bang inside. Offensively, at least he can play both positions. My only reservation picking him is his willingness to play D. At 240lbs, I think he would punish smaller SFs on offense and be a nightmare for PFs because of his ability to stretch the floor. If Wittmann thinks Bennett can be coached uo to play defense and can fit into his system, then he should definitely be the pick.

[sfam]

I understand the Bennett support & those that want to add a stretch 4.

But I'd much rather come out of the draft with Porter and Muscala. Fills two needs with highly skilled, high IQ, high effort players. This is very do-able and both of them would be great fits on this team.

while we can choose our first pick, we aren't able to call dibbs on the second. Muscala may be gone in the mid-20s. What we know if past is prologue is that EG probably won't choose anyone in the second round that people here like or talk about, so Muscala probably isn't in the cards.

With that aside, my ideal would be Bennett, a backup combo guard in the second, and the resigning Webster. That gives us a really nice team with depth.