McLemore/Shabazz combine comparison

ImHeisenberg · Post #1 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Tue May 28, 2013 2:59 pm

I'm writing this up because I've read and responded to a few people that Shabazz can't be a SG, blah blah blah, not athletic enough, not fast enough. But, Ben McLemore is universally considered not just a shooting guard, but a potentially elite shooting guard. Let's look at the numbers side by side, shall we.

....................................-Mac *Bazz
height............................-6'3.5" *6'4.75" (both without shoes)
weight...........................-189 *222
wingspan........................-6'7.75 *6'11"
st. reach........................-8'4.5" *8'8.5"
body fat.........................-5% *9%
max vertical....................-42" *37
lane agility......................-11.87 *10.99
3/4 court spring.................-3.27 *3.32

So, laying the athletic testing numbers out, they really aren't too far apart. Shabazz has a lot more reach, bigger size, and apparently more lateral quickness. McLemore is a better jumper, and marginally faster in a full sprint.

I'd also point out that Shamu's body fat is 4% higher, which would indicate that he could cut his fat and get a little quicker.

So, please stop saying that Shabazz Muhammad can't play the SG in the NBA. If you still feel that way, I'd like to hear your case for why McLemore is a SG, and Muhammad isn't.

coolness · Post #2 » by **coolness** » Tue May 28, 2013 3:18 pm

Wow at the lane agility. Bazz looks good here. Makes me feel better if we end up taking him.

The vertical jump must be the least trustworthy combine stat anyways. You can tamper with your vertical quickly and lose it just as quickly. 5 inches is no difference with the reach.

9% body fat is to be in pretty good shape for somebody called ShaMu. I always thought that was a fat joke. *shrug*

Post #3 » by **theBigLip** » Tue May 28, 2013 3:27 pm

Just my two cents...

McLemore played SG in college, Shamu played SF in college

Shamu can certainly play SG on the offensive end in the NBA

Neither player was known for their defense in college, so there are still a lot of questions

Draft "experts" have written that Shamu will be too slow to guard SGs in the NBA.

Looking at the stats you've listed - we can agree that Shamu is bigger, and a little fatter. McLemore can jump higher and sprint faster. The only item that is a surprise is the "Lane Agility". So based on this one drill, we can come to the conclusion that Shamu makes the transition to guarding 2's in the league? Maybe. Maybe not.

I think it will come down to how hard he will work to make the transition. I'm not convinced, but I don't think it is easy to provide "proof" to say that he can't. If we are drafting him as a SG, it is certainly a risk whether or not that he can make the transition.

ImHeisenberg · Post #4 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Tue May 28, 2013 4:34 pm

Lane agility is telling, BigLip. In a half court situation, a players lateral quickness and ability to run backwards is incredibly important, more so than how fast your can run in a sprint. Considering Shamu's reach, and better lateral quickness, I would certainly project him as a better half court defender (obviously, desire to be a good one factors heavily).

My point of the post was simply to extinguish the belief that Shamu isn't athletic enough to be a shooting guard. Players make the transition all the time. Also, moving from SF to SG has to rank as the easiest position slide. It's not like a SG becoming a PG (cough*BK7*cough).

Clarity · Post #5 » by **Clarity** » Tue May 28, 2013 4:41 pm

McLemore's defense is actually a strong asset of his, I would worry about his offense where he often sleep walks more than his defense.

As we have said many times, Shabazz has plenty of ability to play the NBA 2, its a non topic at this point.

HotelVitale · Post #6 » by **HotelVitale** » Tue May 28, 2013 6:48 pm

As someone who follows draft scouting year-round, the issue with Shabazz's athleticism is that coming into this season he was hyped as an elite slasher who could take anyone to the rack. But at UCLA this year people started to see that, hey, the kid isn't really that quick or that good of a finisher, and he usually just tries to bulldoze his way to the rim or post up little guys. Scouts started worrying early in the year that, even though he was definitely a pretty good college scorer, Shabazz wasn't quite who he was advertised as. Now that they know he's not athlete at the high Kobe/Iguodala/Derozan level, they're trying to figure out if (and how) he can still be a great scorer despite not having superior raw athletic abilities.

In other words, from what I can tell, I don't think NBA scouts are saying he doesn't have the size or athleticism to play either wing position. It's more that he doesn't have exceptional athleticism and might not have the skills or offensive arsenal to set him apart from other prospects with NBA size. No one is saying he's a bad prospect or a guy who won't be at least a decent scorer in the NBA, but lots of people are questioning whether he can be better than other pretty good NCAA scorers with good size like Deshaun Thomas, Allen Crabbe, and Ray McCallum.

Vicissitudes · Post #7 » by **Vicissitudes** » Tue May 28, 2013 8:13 pm

If Singler can play 45 games at SG then I have no idea why some people think Shabazz can't. Shabazz has all it takes to play SG in the NBA. And one thing I noticed about Shabazz topics, it's either you hate him or love him. Some people need to look at the positives, as it overshadows his flaws in my opinion.

Post #8 » by **theBigLip** » Tue May 28, 2013 8:19 pm

Vicissitudes wrote:If Singler can play 45 games at SG then I have no idea why some people think Shabazz can't. Shabazz has all it takes to play SG in the NBA. And one thing I noticed about Shabazz topics, it's either you hate him or love him. Some people need to look at the positives, as it overshadows his flaws in my opinion.

How many games did we win with Singler at SG? :-)

Post #9 » by **theBigLip** » Tue May 28, 2013 8:21 pm

HotelVitale wrote:As someone who follows draft scouting year-round, the issue with Shabazz's athleticism is that coming into this season he was hyped as an elite slasher who could take anyone to the rack. But at UCLA this year people started to see that, hey, the kid isn't really that quick or that good of a finisher, and he usually just tries to bulldoze his way to the rim or post up little guys. Scouts started worrying early in the year that, even though he was definitely a pretty good college scorer, Shabazz wasn't quite who he was advertised as. Now that they know he's not athlete at the high Kobe/Iguodala/Derozan level, they're trying to figure out if (and how) he can still be a great scorer despite not having superior raw athletic abilities.

In other words, from what I can tell, I don't think NBA scouts are saying he doesn't have the size or athleticism to play either wing position. It's more that he doesn't have exceptional athleticism and might not have the skills or offensive arsenal to set him apart from other prospects with NBA size. No one is saying he's a bad prospect or a guy who won't be at least a decent scorer in the NBA, but lots of people are questioning whether he can be better than other pretty good NCAA scorers with good size like Deshaun Thomas, Allen Crabbe, and Ray McCallum.

Agree with this. It isn't that Shamu sucks, it is that he isn't what he was hyped up to be. He certainly isn't a top3 pick which is where he was a year ago. Late lottery seems about right, and that's where he seems to be settling. Which means the taking him at #8 is a big risk! (Had to get that out of my system) :-)

Vicissitudes · Post #10 » by **Vicissitudes** » Tue May 28, 2013 8:40 pm

theBigLip wrote:
Vicissitudes wrote:If Singler can play 45 games at SG then I have no idea why some people think Shabazz can't. Shabazz has all it takes to play SG in the NBA. And one thing I noticed about Shabazz topics, it's either you hate him or love him. Some people need to look at the positives, as it overshadows his flaws in my opinion.

How many games did we win with Singler at SG?

He played better than Stuckey tho lol who is supposed to be our best SG? :lol:

Post #11 » by **theBigLip** » Tue May 28, 2013 9:12 pm

Vicissitudes wrote:
theBigLip wrote:
Vicissitudes wrote:If Singler can play 45 games at SG then I have no idea why some people think Shabazz can't. Shabazz has all it takes to play SG in the NBA. And one thing I noticed about Shabazz topics, it's either you hate him or love him. Some people need to look at the positives, as it overshadows his flaws in my opinion.

How many games did we win with Singler at SG?

He played better than Stuckey tho lol who is supposed to be our best SG?

Maybe Dumars is our best SG? :-)

joseph mamah · Post #12 » by **joseph mamah** » Tue May 28, 2013 9:13 pm

Vicissitudes wrote:If Singler can play 45 games at SG then I have no idea why some people think Shabazz can't. Shabazz has all it takes to play SG in the NBA. And one thing I noticed about Shabazz topics, it's either you hate him or love him. Some people need to look at the positives, as it overshadows his flaws in my opinion.

this is irrelevant to Bazz, but Singler was routinely abused on the defensive end at SG.

Piston Pete · Post #13 » by **Piston Pete** » Tue May 28, 2013 9:13 pm

Not a fair argument though....

Singler's just not a great player. Solid, good guy to have in the rotation....but not a difference-maker to ask "how many did we win with him" wherever....

I know Singler was brought into the conversation to justify Shabazz playing SG. Shabazz can definitely play SG full-time in the NBA. I'd hope he does.

Clarity · Post #14 » by **Clarity** » Wed May 29, 2013 7:21 am

Hype is meaningless, & Shabazz is a fine finisher just not in face up iso's yet. Him "posting smaller guys" is outstanding. His ball handling & face up play making will improve but he can already score in a variety of different ways.

Minas · Post #15 » by **Minas** » Wed May 29, 2013 7:53 am

I think that Shabazz definitely has the physical tools and ability to effectively guard SGs in the NBA. It's just about whether he applies himself and how much effort he puts in on the defensive side of the floor.

Jodi · Post #16 » by **Jodi** » Wed May 29, 2013 8:59 am

Muhammad is a 3...He can play the 2, but his primary position is a 3...

Piston Pete · Post #17 » by **Piston Pete** » Wed May 29, 2013 11:51 am

Jodi wrote:Muhammad is a 3...He can play the 2, but his primary position is a 3...

I think its clear that Shabazz is a guy who can play both spots.

I personally think he has a bigger advantage over opposing SGs and it would be best for him to play there more than SF.

The Penguin · Post #18 » by **The Penguin** » Wed May 29, 2013 12:03 pm

I really want to trade for Dallas's 1st (by taking Marion).

I am very intrigued by the size advantage a MCW-Shabazz backcourt could possess and Knight could play off the bench with either guy.

Minas · Post #19 » by **Minas** » Wed May 29, 2013 12:30 pm

Piston Prince wrote:I really want to trade for Dallas's 1st (by taking Marion).

I am very intrigued by the size advantage a MCW-Shabazz backcourt could possess and Knight could play off the bench with either guy.

If we could get Dallas' pick by just taking on Marion's salary I'd do the deal without hesitation.

The Penguin · Post #20 » by **The Penguin** » Wed May 29, 2013 1:42 pm

Minas wrote:
Piston Prince wrote:I really want to trade for Dallas's 1st (by taking Marion).

I am very intrigued by the size advantage a MCW-Shabazz backcourt could possess and Knight could play off the bench with either guy.

If we could get Dallas' pick by just taking on Marion's salary I'd do the deal without hesitation.

I imagine it'd be something like our two 2nds and English for Marion & 1st. Mavs free up nearly $10 mil in cap room.