Alec Burks over Kawhi Leonard

[Reckless]

Why is this draft mistake overlooked by jazz fans?

[king everything]

Why is this draft mistake overlooked by jazz fans?

Because Burks don't suck. And Leonard coulda went either way. He wasn't a sure thing. Sure, today, I'd rather have him... but Leonard was a sleeper from a middling conference. Spurs just did well. Thats why Spurs >>>> Jazz.

[Inigo Montoya]

Why is this draft mistake overlooked by jazz fans?

because burks don't get to play. we don't know how good he can be. leonard gets to play, so we see his worth. also, he plays with hall of fame players and the best coach in the NBA with a system that runs like a well oiled machine. we got corbin as a coach, and mo as a PG. poor alec don't stand a chance.

[hoops4life]

Hindsight is 20/20.

There is a reason that he slid like he did. If we drafted Leonard and them Burks, Leonard would be sitting on the bench or playing out of position and Burks would be lighting it up about to play in the finals.

[erudite23]

I think its a solid point. I wasn't crazy about Burks before the draft and most of my fears seem to have been confirmed. He might turn out but to me it looks likely that he is either a deep rotation guy or maybe even playing in Europe in a few years. There's still hope, but its a long shot at this point.

Meanwhile, Leonard was a top 5-7 pick throughout the draft process and he slid on draft day for reasons that still aren't clear (correct me if I'm wrong, but he didn't have any medical or character flags, and his size and skill set were pretty ideal for his position, although shooting was thought to be his weakness and instead its been a strength). We wanted a smaller guard who could handle and penetrate to complement Gordo, but when you're trying to build you grab talent and don't worry too much about fit.

I think it was a mistake, but not along the lines of Augustin over Lopez or Thabeet over Harden. And it might still work out.

[king everything]

He might turn out but to me it looks likely that he is either a deep rotation guy or maybe even playing in Europe in a few years. There's still hope, but its a long shot at this point.

What Burks do you watch? We're discussing the one on the Jazz. The one thats possibly the teams 2nd best defender and gets forced to play outta position where he produces admirably and then is forced back to DNPland for stretches of multiple games. We're talking about the one that takes the ball to the hole better than anyone else on the team, and draws fouls and free throws like Whoopi Goldberg draws flys.

[StocktonShorts]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/931 ... nce-finals

I love how the Zach Lowe piece today subtly highlights both recent Jazz draft screw ups. The Pacers didn't expect George to be there at 10 nor did they expect Leonard to be there at 15.

[Jazzfan12]

I think its a solid point. I wasn't crazy about Burks before the draft and most of my fears seem to have been confirmed. He might turn out but to me it looks likely that he is either a deep rotation guy or maybe even playing in Europe in a few years. There's still hope, but its a long shot at this point.

Meanwhile, Leonard was a top 5-7 pick throughout the draft process and he slid on draft day for reasons that still aren't clear (correct me if I'm wrong, but he didn't have any medical or character flags, and his size and skill set were pretty ideal for his position, although shooting was thought to be his weakness and instead its been a strength). We wanted a smaller guard who could handle and penetrate to complement Gordo, but when you're trying to build you grab talent and don't worry too much about fit.

I think it was a mistake, but not along the lines of Augustin over Lopez or Thabeet over Harden. And it might still work out.

Leonard was expected to go in the top 7 or so, but the Cavs reaching for Thompson screwed up the draft board and caused him to drop past the teams that worked him out and then the other teams in the late lottery passed on him because they never worked him out because they never expected him to drop that far lol.

Jazz probably would have picked him at 12 but his agent pulled him from the workout with the Jazz because his agent was convinced that Leonard would never slide to 12

[reapaman]

Stop these depressing threads please. Lets just look towards the future and make it mistake free. Whats making it worst is the hawks just signed my favorite head coaching candidate, Mike Budenhozier ..... **sigh**

[StocktonShorts]

Stop these depressing threads please. Lets just look towards the future and make it mistake free. Whats making it worst is the hawks just signed my favorite head coaching candidate, Mike Budenhozier ..... **sigh**

Hear, hear.

[Blackie]

It is easy after the fact to say what should have happened. I still like Burks. I am disappointed he has not been given more plaing time. Either play him or trade him.

[Winglish]

Alec Burks over Kawhi Leonard

Unread postby ut_jazz on Tue May 28, 2013 12:11 pm

Why is this draft mistake overlooked by jazz fans?

It's not. I was literally screaming at the TV during that draft.

[Hoops Addict]

Jazz fan here.

I would take Leonard of Burks any time. Leonard is 10 year starter, defensive lock down player, awesome.

Jazz took Kanter and needed a guard. There were big smokescreens with Leonard.....fake stories saying he could not shoot....but he can bang open 3's all day in the playoffs.

I like Burks a lot....he is good.....can drop 20 if you play him 36min and let him shoot....on a bad team he would get big minutes and score 15 a game.

Burks was better than most of the people taken after him.

I resent missing out on getting George, but Hayward is solid.

[Reckless]

here is story how the George Hill for Kawhi Leonard trade went down
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/931 ... ource=t.co

The Pacers had Leonard as their 5th or 6th best on their draft board but they decided not to keep him since they already had Granger and George. Who knows where they had Burks.

[countrybama24]

Why is this draft mistake overlooked by jazz fans?

Because Leonard is a system guy who looks great with the spurs but may not have been anything special elsewhere, Burks still has a lot of potential, and Alec fills a greater need (ball-handler / shot-creator) for our team (seriously, we had the worst guard rotation in at least a decade).

Leonard is a great complimentary player, Burks is a potential star. Even if Leonard ends up better (we just don't know yet, he's certainly produced more now), it's not as bad as Koufos before Ibaka or Hayward before George.

I'm not ragging on the front office for the Hayward pick. I will not forgive the Ibaka pick however, since we were rocking the Boozer-Okur front court and we needed shotblocking so desperately. If it's lack of scouting, willingness to take risks on raw prospects, lack of vision, whatever, the reason we passed on him needs to be viewed as an organizational flaw because he could not have complimented our Deron-Boozer-Okur trio any better.

[erudite23]

He might turn out but to me it looks likely that he is either a deep rotation guy or maybe even playing in Europe in a few years. There's still hope, but its a long shot at this point.

What Burks do you watch? We're discussing the one on the Jazz. The one thats possibly the teams 2nd best defender and gets forced to play outta position where he produces admirably and then is forced back to DNPland for stretches of multiple games. We're talking about the one that takes the ball to the hole better than anyone else on the team, and draws fouls and free throws like Whoopi Goldberg draws flys.

I'm watching the inefficient one who barely cleared 50% TS this year.

Also, he has not drawn fouls at as high of a rate as you are suggesting. His FTR is .333 this year (Hayward's was .390) which is good but not great.

Also don't know where you get the idea that he's that good of a defender. I thought he made strides this year, but still gets turned around a lot and loses track of his man off the ball. I'm optimistic he can become a good one, but don't think he's there yet.

And while I will not deny that his treatment by the coaching staff is not conducive to good performance, if he was THAT good, it would shine through. His production last year was that of a slightly above replacement level performer.

[Jazzfan12]

Leonard is one of the best defenders and finshers in the NBA and can hit threes at a very high level.

I think that can fit every single "system" in the NBA.

[Inigo Montoya]

Leonard is one of the best defenders and finshers in the NBA and can hit threes at a very high level.

I think that can fit every single "system" in the NBA.

he can also fit the jazz's bench perfectly, which is where he'd be under corbin, regardless of how good he is. just like burks. or favors.

[king everything]

He might turn out but to me it looks likely that he is either a deep rotation guy or maybe even playing in Europe in a few years. There's still hope, but its a long shot at this point.

What Burks do you watch? We're discussing the one on the Jazz. The one thats possibly the teams 2nd best defender and gets forced to play outta position where he produces admirably and then is forced back to DNPland for stretches of multiple games. We're talking about the one that takes the ball to the hole better than anyone else on the team, and draws fouls and free throws like Whoopi Goldberg draws flys.

I'm watching the inefficient one who barely cleared 50% TS this year.

Also, he has not drawn fouls at as high of a rate as you are suggesting. His FTR is .333 this year (Hayward's was .390) which is good but not great.

Also don't know where you get the idea that he's that good of a defender. I thought he made strides this year, but still gets turned around a lot and loses track of his man off the ball. I'm optimistic he can become a good one, but don't think he's there yet.

And while I will not deny that his treatment by the coaching staff is not conducive to good performance, if he was THAT good, it would shine through. His production last year was that of a slightly above replacement level performer.

you're talking to the guy that thinks metrics are garbage... I just watch him play. He can play. Simple.

[StocktonShorts]

What Burks do you watch? We're discussing the one on the Jazz. The one thats possibly the teams 2nd best defender and gets forced to play outta position where he produces admirably and then is forced back to DNPland for stretches of multiple games. We're talking about the one that takes the ball to the hole better than anyone else on the team, and draws fouls and free throws like Whoopi Goldberg draws flys.

I'm watching the inefficient one who barely cleared 50% TS this year.

Also, he has not drawn fouls at as high of a rate as you are suggesting. His FTR is .333 this year (Hayward's was .390) which is good but not great.

Also don't know where you get the idea that he's that good of a defender. I thought he made strides this year, but still gets turned around a lot and loses track of his man off the ball. I'm optimistic he can become a good one, but don't think he's there yet.

And while I will not deny that his treatment by the coaching staff is not conducive to good performance, if he was THAT good, it would shine through. His production last year was that of a slightly above replacement level performer.

you're talking to the guy that thinks metrics are garbage... I just watch him play. He can play. Simple.

You make an excellent point, it's pretty tough to argue with someone who thinks metrics are garbage. It's like trying to argue science with a religious nut.