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Trade Lin

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spolgar
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#41 » by spolgar » Tue May 28, 2013 7:17 pm

moofs wrote:Max, I clicked here to see your post, but it opened to page 1. For a second, I thought spolgar's rant was by you.

Which is kinda like showing up to a AC/DC concert and getting an earful of Rachmaninoff. Your somewhat different new style of writing was a little jarring.


Haha... I'm kinda touched. Thanks.

EDIT: My wife said I am glowing like a pregnant woman. Fricking a.
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#42 » by IMAN5 » Tue May 28, 2013 8:00 pm

MaxRider wrote:
IMAN5 wrote:
MaxRider wrote:overpaid for what? the owner got all those money back he paid Lin through advertisement already


Even if you break even, or even make a small profit, doesn't change that Lin was overpaid.

he's not overpaid, that's his market value, Morey never overpaid a player
if NYK matched then he's overpaid because NYK has to pay luxury tax


If NYK match and they were still under the salary cap, Lin is still considered overpaid. I don't understand how you can say the final year of lin's contract isn't overpaying him. Even if it's an attractive salary dump to another team that yaer (which may not happen) Morey still overpaid.
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#43 » by TMACFORMVP » Tue May 28, 2013 8:14 pm

Lin's cap hit on our roster for his third and final year is the same as this past year and the next.
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#44 » by MaxRider » Tue May 28, 2013 8:41 pm

IMAN5 wrote:If NYK match and they were still under the salary cap, Lin is still considered overpaid. I don't understand how you can say the final year of lin's contract isn't overpaying him. Even if it's an attractive salary dump to another team that yaer (which may not happen) Morey still overpaid.


i guess the poison pill contract is very confusing

you see the deal is 3 years for 25 millions
if NYK matched it's 5 million for 1st year, 5 million for 2nd year, and 15 million for the 3rd year
you see how that 3rd year/last year can hit you hard with the luxury tax
for Houston it is 8.3 million per year
you can say 8.3 million is overpaying him
but look around Jose Calderon is getting paid 11 millions
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#45 » by moofs » Wed May 29, 2013 3:23 am

MaxRider wrote:i guess the poison pill contract is very confusing

you see the deal is 3 years for 25 millions
if NYK matched it's 5 million for 1st year, 5 million for 2nd year, and 15 million for the 3rd year
you see how that 3rd year/last year can hit you hard with the luxury tax
for Houston it is 8.3 million per year
you can say 8.3 million is overpaying him
but look around Jose Calderon is getting paid 11 millions


Calderon gets insulted a lot for being a really good player. I don't understand it, myself.
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#46 » by spolgar » Wed May 29, 2013 4:07 am

moofs wrote:
MaxRider wrote:i guess the poison pill contract is very confusing

you see the deal is 3 years for 25 millions
if NYK matched it's 5 million for 1st year, 5 million for 2nd year, and 15 million for the 3rd year
you see how that 3rd year/last year can hit you hard with the luxury tax
for Houston it is 8.3 million per year
you can say 8.3 million is overpaying him
but look around Jose Calderon is getting paid 11 millions


Calderon gets insulted a lot for being a really good player. I don't understand it, myself.


Calderon gets a bit of poop because defensively he can be a bit lacking. He's a good point guard that can score and pass equally well but languished earlier in Toronto, then got paid a bit much for a player who didn't generate a lot of high lights but pulls a lot of assists efficiently, shoots percentages that have improved from meh to okay to really good and then...

52% on twos, 53% on threes, 89.3 on FTs, 12 points, 6.6 assists, 32 minutes a game for 28 games in Detroit. Imagine having camp and a full season... He's going to be one of the best fantasy bargains in the league.
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#47 » by moofs » Wed May 29, 2013 6:02 pm

To me, the guy sit down instead of crossing the halfcourt line to play defense, hit 53%/90% on threes/FTs, and still be above average.

...and anyone who cares about highlights in judging a players' effectiveness needs to be slapped with a fish until they have better judgment.

On the other hand, if not for people with opinions like that, there'd be less room at for PI! :cheesygrin:
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#48 » by spolgar » Wed May 29, 2013 6:56 pm

moofs wrote:To me, the guy sit down instead of crossing the halfcourt line to play defense, hit 53%/90% on threes/FTs, and still be above average.

...and anyone who cares about highlights in judging a players' effectiveness needs to be slapped with a fish until they have better judgment.

On the other hand, if not for people with opinions like that, there'd be less room at for PI! :cheesygrin:


Well you know how some people are sometimes. I mean, when the Bucks was playing against Miami, the TNT commenting team were ooing and aahing over Brandon Jennings. The only person who was really honest was Shaq, who called him 'The New Van Exel'.

Sometimes people just get too reliant on the eye test. Calderon doesn't look all that special over the course of 10 minutes.
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#49 » by moofs » Wed May 29, 2013 7:10 pm

Yeah, like trying to talk my wife into a Minivan or Sedan instead of her SUV.
She owns the SUV because of how "safe" it is, even though just about anything else is safer or more utilitarian.
Stupid eye test.
Can't even have any luck with talking her into getting a truck. Nevermind that SUVs are just trucks with the beds covered, an extra seat, and more cup holders.
Gotta love those cup holders.

(you can tell where I edited the last post by playing "spot the missing/extra words")
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#50 » by spolgar » Thu May 30, 2013 1:28 am

No worries, got what you mean.

Yeah, I don't drive in Houston, so I don't know if the extra layers of steel between drivers is worth the extra wear and tear on their wallets.

My wife is sorta the same way too, she doesn't want me to own a compact hybrid because she would like the extra crumple zones. I tell her that a smaller car enables me to get out of the way easier, and the reduced carbon foot print is congruent with her leftist granola image.

We continue to drive an older avalon, affectionately named after her grandmother...
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#51 » by moofs » Thu May 30, 2013 1:42 pm

Morey 2020.

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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#52 » by spolgar » Thu May 30, 2013 2:59 pm

I read that one too. I'll go look at it again after I'm finished with a distasteful meeting.
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#53 » by madmaxmedia » Fri May 31, 2013 6:00 pm

Lin's contract isn't horrible, but perhaps a little high based on last season. He may have better seasons going forward. In retrospect you might not have done the deal had you know you were getting Harden, but that's purely with 20/20 hindsight. I don't know how much off-the-court revenue he really brings, does he sell THAT much merchandise? Marketing revenue doesn't make up for cap space IMO.

That being said, he is still a pretty nice player IMO and his contract is not killing the team, so a salary dump is not in order. If you have room to offer Howard a max contract, then it's all good anyways...
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#54 » by chatuka » Fri May 31, 2013 6:42 pm

Lin is a value at his price. him with Dwight, Parsons, Harden, Asik is a pretty sick lineup.
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#55 » by KiDdFrESh » Sat Jun 1, 2013 3:22 pm

Would be a pipe dream come true if Morey could trade Lin and picks for Paul!
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#56 » by spolgar » Sun Jun 2, 2013 12:45 am

KiDdFrESh wrote:Would be a pipe dream come true if Morey could trade Lin and picks for Paul!


It would be a steep price. Paul is a max player. With the new CBA, I think it would be incredibly expensive to have 3 max players.
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#57 » by inquisitive » Sat Jun 8, 2013 5:10 pm

5 mil isn't bad at all, but 15mil the last yr is, but at least it is expiring.
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#58 » by MaxRider » Sat Jun 8, 2013 10:54 pm

no doubt big beeping pipe dream
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#59 » by playteamball » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:56 pm

Lin only had 2 turnovers in that Spurs game. McHale completely made up the 9 turnover comment. McHale seems like a good guy, so I have no idea why he would want to undermine his own player.

13th Man wrote:
madbucky wrote:
bogey_j wrote:Trade Lin

There is nothing wrong with wanting to trade Lin. I happen to agree that it's a good idea to trade for a non-ball-dominant PG who can be a better fit with Harden.

However, making a thread "Trade Lin" immediately after the Rockets lose the series is basically pinning all the blame on Lin. Sure, Lin had a forgetful playoffs. He stunk in game 1, but was having a good half in game 2, then after that he was ineffective due to the injury. Lin's performance was far from the main reason why the Rockets lost. For starters, how about Harden's 39% shooting and 4.5 TO/G in the playoffs?

Lin pretty much matched all his numbers from last year across the board (FG%, 3pt%, ft%, ppg, apg, spg, rpg), while decreasing his TOs. He is a streaky player, so maybe people just remember his bad moments. But seriously, look at his numbers and tell me how he is a worse player compared to last year? I'm not saying he doesn't have areas to improve, I'm just addressing the kneejerk "trade Lin", "he's the reason the Rockets didn't win the series" reactions.


Good post, I agree with everything here. I'm a Lin fan and think that he has more upside than Beverly or AB but I also question if Houston is the best fit for him and vice versa. Beverly seems to fit better for McHale's system and with Harden as well.

I'm not a blind "LOF" as they call it at Clutchfans and realize that Lin has played very inconsistently this year but I also attribute some of this to the coaches' lack of confidence instilled in him. It started when McHale was off and Sampson was benching Lin repeatly in 4th quarters in favor of Douglas. When McHale came back and Lin had his monster 38 pt. game vs the Spurs, rather than praising him McHale criticized him for trying to hit home runs along with an exagerrated 9 TOs (it was only 6 or 7). He basically discouraged this type of play from Lin, hinting that he's playing out of his element and role which the "home run" shots should only be taken by Harden. The 4th quarter benchings started multipling after that and I'm sure this takes a mental toll on a young player. People that have followed Lin through Linsanity knows that he plays his best when he has control of the ball, unfortunately this will never happen playing with Harden and under McHale.

So once again, Lin really has to improve his play this off-season and it starts with his shot. I think he needs a new shooting coach that can help decrease the arc on his shots, I can't stand his rainbow 3's they're like prayers waiting to be answered. He would hit some tough 3's but then miss the wide open ones due to the flaws in his mechanics. He also needs to improve his mental strength, some games he plays with confidence and others totally lost and scared.

Not sure which team he would fit best with right now or if any other team would take him on so his best bet would be to learn how to play alongside Harden or possibly as a 6th man as well in Houston.
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Re: Trade Lin 

Post#60 » by 2Harden2Handle » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:45 am

Unless Chris Paul is coming to Houston, I don't see any reason to move the Rockets starting pg who drastically improved after he recovered from knee surgery (around April).

His per 36 post the All-Star break was:
17.2 points
6.8 assists
46% fg
37% 3pt
2.3 turnovers

And that's as the secondary ball-handler making only 8.3 million per year.
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