ImageImageImageImage

Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Edition)

Moderators: UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass, ChosenSavior

User avatar
IGotDaMagicInMe
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,965
And1: 203
Joined: Jun 24, 2011
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1061 » by IGotDaMagicInMe » Tue May 28, 2013 10:33 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:Good article by Josh Robbins on drafting for talent and not need. Disregard if this has been posted already.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-josh-robbins-magic-insider-orlando-magic-draft-20130524,0,6959891.column
The media’s saturation coverage of the NFL Draft unfortunately has skewed the way sports fans think about the NBA Draft.

And, perhaps as a result, some fans of the Orlando Magic are losing sight of what this draft really should be about for the franchise.

Too many fans want the Magic to draft “for need.”

The refrain goes like this: The Magic have a significant deficiency at point guard; therefore, the team must — absolutely must!!! — draft a point guard.


I hear it all the time.

On sports talk radio. When I run into strangers or friends in town. When I open my work e-mail every morning.

But that line of thinking is woefully shortsighted.

It reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of where the Magic stand at this moment.

The Magic have just completed Year One of a long, potentially arduous, rebuilding project.

In the June 27 draft, Magic officials need to select the player they think has the best chance to develop into a perennial All-Star, regardless of position.

If the best high-ceiling player happens to be a center, draft him, even though the Magic already have a talented, young player at that position, Nik Vucevic.

If the best high-ceiling player happens to be a small forward, draft him, even though Maurice Harkless has the potential to be a top-notch defender.

The same goes for the power forward, shooting guard and point guard spots.

If this were the NFL, my advice would be different.

Pro football is a sport in which teams often should draft for need.

In the NFL, of course, there are far more prospects available in every draft, and the difference in quality among the top-notch players at different positions often isn’t as profound as it is in the NBA.

Pro football also is a sport in which league officials systematically have created a state of perpetual parity. Teams with awful records one season are rewarded with easier schedules the next season, while teams with great records are punished the next season with tougher schedules.

The problem with this year’s NBA Draft is that there’s no single franchise-altering talent available — no one along the lines of Shaquille O’Neal in 1992, a LeBron James in 2003 or even an Anthony Davis in 2012.

Or at least that’s what the experts think.

The question is: Is there a hidden gem out there somewhere? In 2010, the Indiana Pacers already had small forward Danny Granger when they used the 10th overall pick to select another wing, Paul George. What a brilliant move. George has emerged as the Pacers’ best player, and he was just selected to the 2012-13 All-NBA Third Team.

Many Magic fans hope this year’s gem is a point guard.

Jameer Nelson isn’t the team’s long-term answer at the position because he’s 31 years old and because the team is years away from title contention.

To be sure, there are some intriguing point guard prospects in this year’s draft, most notably Michigan’s Trey Burke, Syracuse’s Michael Carter-Wiliams and Lehigh’s C.J. McCollum.


But do any of them have a higher upside than Kentucky center Nerlens Noel or Kansas shooting guard Ben McLemore?



That’s the question Magic GM Rob Hennigan and assistant GMs Scott Perry and Matt Lloyd need to answer before June 27.

Luckily for the franchise, Hennigan and his crew didn’t listen to fans who didn’t want the team to trade away J.J. Redick at the trade deadline. The Magic ultimately traded Redick and two others for a package of players that included a high-upside youngster, Tobias Harris.

Now, once again, the Magic front office needs to tune out the noise.


i dont even like need drafting in the nfl that much
Image
User avatar
IGotDaMagicInMe
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,965
And1: 203
Joined: Jun 24, 2011
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1062 » by IGotDaMagicInMe » Tue May 28, 2013 11:13 pm

random thought, I'm not saying we should do this but it'd be kinda funny if a team took burke and hardaway this year, and mcgary and robinson next year
Image
User avatar
vinageras
Head Coach
Posts: 6,778
And1: 1
Joined: May 16, 2004
Location: Mexico City

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1063 » by vinageras » Tue May 28, 2013 11:46 pm

I'm warming up to Burke lately. I think he might be the player that lifts the PG position for the Magic.

BTW, the Magic is reportedly looking at an undrafted Canadian prospect that is beating every other prospect from this year's draft: http://www.hoopsworld.com/warren-ward-t ... ute-to-nba
User avatar
rcklsscognition
RealGM
Posts: 22,370
And1: 7,433
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Contact:
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1064 » by rcklsscognition » Wed May 29, 2013 12:46 am

vinageras wrote:I'm warming up to Burke lately. I think he might be the player that lifts the PG position for the Magic.

BTW, the Magic is reportedly looking at an undrafted Canadian prospect that is beating every other prospect from this year's draft: http://www.hoopsworld.com/warren-ward-t ... ute-to-nba


The 2013 Ish Smith? Hope we sign him.
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,364
And1: 13,768
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1065 » by Bensational » Wed May 29, 2013 2:00 am

rcklsscognition wrote:
vinageras wrote:I'm warming up to Burke lately. I think he might be the player that lifts the PG position for the Magic.

BTW, the Magic is reportedly looking at an undrafted Canadian prospect that is beating every other prospect from this year's draft: http://www.hoopsworld.com/warren-ward-t ... ute-to-nba


The 2013 Ish Smith? Hope we sign him.


he's well worth a chance. him plus Nicholson could be a nice bit of Canadian support for when our boy Wiggins arrives. :wink:
User avatar
vinageras
Head Coach
Posts: 6,778
And1: 1
Joined: May 16, 2004
Location: Mexico City

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1066 » by vinageras » Wed May 29, 2013 2:56 am

Bensational wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:
vinageras wrote:I'm warming up to Burke lately. I think he might be the player that lifts the PG position for the Magic.

BTW, the Magic is reportedly looking at an undrafted Canadian prospect that is beating every other prospect from this year's draft: http://www.hoopsworld.com/warren-ward-t ... ute-to-nba


The 2013 Ish Smith? Hope we sign him.


he's well worth a chance. him plus Nicholson could be a nice bit of Canadian support for when our boy Wiggins arrives. :wink:


I would be thrilled with Burke + Ward, excited with Noel + Ward, ok with McLemore + Ward
User avatar
IGotDaMagicInMe
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,965
And1: 203
Joined: Jun 24, 2011
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1067 » by IGotDaMagicInMe » Wed May 29, 2013 3:44 am

vinageras wrote:
Bensational wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:
The 2013 Ish Smith? Hope we sign him.


he's well worth a chance. him plus Nicholson could be a nice bit of Canadian support for when our boy Wiggins arrives. :wink:


I would be thrilled with Burke + Ward, excited with Noel + Ward, ok with McLemore + Ward


Is this guy ACTUALLY good though?
Image
User avatar
rcklsscognition
RealGM
Posts: 22,370
And1: 7,433
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Contact:
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1068 » by rcklsscognition » Wed May 29, 2013 5:33 am

IGotDaMagicInMe wrote:
vinageras wrote:
Bensational wrote:
he's well worth a chance. him plus Nicholson could be a nice bit of Canadian support for when our boy Wiggins arrives. :wink:


I would be thrilled with Burke + Ward, excited with Noel + Ward, ok with McLemore + Ward


Is this guy ACTUALLY good though?


[youtube]http://youtu.be/AmX5EvQE9B4?t=33s[/YouTube]

Reminds me of Jamal Crawford and a bit Dwayne Wade. He has a nice shot, high release, good 3-ball, can slash a bit, willing passer, good handles. Even has a post game. Uses the crossover dribble a lot, can pull up for 3, hit a fadeaway mid-range jumper, or penetrate and kick. Shows excellent court vision passing out of penetration. Uses his body well to absorb contact when attacking the rim. Excellent body control.

This is a long video on him, good stuff.

[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhWgKhzt__A[/youtube]
User avatar
rcklsscognition
RealGM
Posts: 22,370
And1: 7,433
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Contact:
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1069 » by rcklsscognition » Wed May 29, 2013 5:33 am

IGotDaMagicInMe wrote:
vinageras wrote:
Bensational wrote:
he's well worth a chance. him plus Nicholson could be a nice bit of Canadian support for when our boy Wiggins arrives. :wink:


I would be thrilled with Burke + Ward, excited with Noel + Ward, ok with McLemore + Ward


Is this guy ACTUALLY good though?


Reminds me of Jamal Crawford and a bit Dwayne Wade. He has a nice shot, high release, good 3-ball, can slash a bit, willing passer, good handles. Even has a post game. Uses the crossover dribble a lot, can pull up for 3, hit a fadeaway mid-range jumper, or penetrate and kick. Shows excellent court vision passing out of penetration. Uses his body well to absorb contact when attacking the rim. Excellent body control.

This is a long video on him, good stuff.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhWgKhzt__A[/youtube]
User avatar
IGotDaMagicInMe
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,965
And1: 203
Joined: Jun 24, 2011
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1070 » by IGotDaMagicInMe » Wed May 29, 2013 6:03 am

rcklsscognition wrote:
IGotDaMagicInMe wrote:
vinageras wrote:
I would be thrilled with Burke + Ward, excited with Noel + Ward, ok with McLemore + Ward


Is this guy ACTUALLY good though?


Reminds me of Jamal Crawford and a bit Dwayne Wade. He has a nice shot, high release, good 3-ball, can slash a bit, willing passer, good handles. Even has a post game. Uses the crossover dribble a lot, can pull up for 3, hit a fadeaway mid-range jumper, or penetrate and kick. Shows excellent court vision passing out of penetration. Uses his body well to absorb contact when attacking the rim. Excellent body control.

This is a long video on him, good stuff.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhWgKhzt__A[/youtube]


I'm not saying he isn't good, but I'm not a fan of using highlights to scout people, and especially when they arent facing good competition

I need some negative feedback on players too, I'm skeptical when all I'm hearing is positive, this has some negative feedback http://nbaprospects.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... spect.html
Image
User avatar
Furinkazan
General Manager
Posts: 7,987
And1: 3,627
Joined: May 11, 2005
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1071 » by Furinkazan » Wed May 29, 2013 6:06 am

low risk high reward ... just lock him and see what happens
User avatar
rcklsscognition
RealGM
Posts: 22,370
And1: 7,433
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Contact:
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1072 » by rcklsscognition » Wed May 29, 2013 7:37 am

I totally understand wanting to look at the negatives of a 1st round draft pick, but in this situation, undrafted, I tend only to look at positives. Not to worried about negatives for the 15th guy on my roster. Maybe he sticks he probably doesn't. He's got skills.
User avatar
Def Swami
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 25,977
And1: 15,379
Joined: Aug 04, 2008
Location: Huevos Bancheros Brunch
Contact:
   

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1073 » by Def Swami » Wed May 29, 2013 9:06 am

Carter Williams vs. Trey Burke the new Russell Westbrook vs. Jerryd Bayless?

IIRC, most mock drafts had the Thunder selecting Bayless from Arizona because of his great performance there. They ended up taking a risk on Westbrook who didn't have as stellar numbers and was projected to go in the 9-11 range.
User avatar
KillMonger
RealGM
Posts: 20,691
And1: 11,213
Joined: Oct 13, 2012
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1074 » by KillMonger » Wed May 29, 2013 9:41 am

Def Swami wrote:Carter Williams vs. Trey Burke the new Russell Westbrook vs. Jerryd Bayless?

IIRC, most mock drafts had the Thunder selecting Bayless from Arizona because of his great performance there. They ended up taking a risk on Westbrook who didn't have as stellar numbers and was projected to go in the 9-11 range.
trey Burke is bayless? I'll just assume you're comparing situations

Sent from my expensive a$$ phone
Image
MagicFan32
RealGM
Posts: 14,953
And1: 790
Joined: Jun 13, 2004
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1075 » by MagicFan32 » Wed May 29, 2013 9:48 am

i'm not surprised the magic are going to take a very close look at MCW, his athleticism and size are highly coveted at the PG position. and if we trade down i'm ok taking that risk. he could be westbrook/rondo or he could be reece gaines

this of course, indicates the magic are looking at trade down options/acquiring another 1st round pick. If we took Oladipo 2nd, and then picked MCW later would anyone really be upset? that would be potentially an elite defensive, athletic backcourt, with interesting offensive skills
aol4532 on bill russell
I think if you put McGee back then, he would get those blocks just as easily as Russell did. Russell's athleticism was well ahead of the players of his time, and that's about it.
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,364
And1: 13,768
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1076 » by Bensational » Wed May 29, 2013 10:33 am

MagicFan32 wrote:i'm not surprised the magic are going to take a very close look at MCW, his athleticism and size are highly coveted at the PG position. and if we trade down i'm ok taking that risk. he could be westbrook/rondo or he could be reece gaines

this of course, indicates the magic are looking at trade down options/acquiring another 1st round pick. If we took Oladipo 2nd, and then picked MCW later would anyone really be upset? that would be potentially an elite defensive, athletic backcourt, with interesting offensive skills


In terms of pairing MCW with someone, McLemore is a much better fit. That would be a Rondo/Allen-esque combo.

I find it very interesting that Henny is looking at MCW. His height, length, pass first mentality and good ability to play the lanes is very intriguing for a PG. But, like you said, he could be the next Reece Gaines/Jerryl Sasser.
MagicFan32
RealGM
Posts: 14,953
And1: 790
Joined: Jun 13, 2004
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1077 » by MagicFan32 » Wed May 29, 2013 11:34 am

MCW's rebound numbers indicate an elite athlete at the PG position, the syracuse system makes it hard to tell what he can do in the NBA. i wouldn't touch him @ no.2 but outside the top 10 he's worth the risk
aol4532 on bill russell
I think if you put McGee back then, he would get those blocks just as easily as Russell did. Russell's athleticism was well ahead of the players of his time, and that's about it.
User avatar
Blue_and_Whte
RealGM
Posts: 24,661
And1: 9,551
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Location: Orlando, FL.
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1078 » by Blue_and_Whte » Wed May 29, 2013 12:31 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:I totally understand wanting to look at the negatives of a 1st round draft pick, but in this situation, undrafted, I tend only to look at positives. Not to worried about negatives for the 15th guy on my roster. Maybe he sticks he probably doesn't. He's got skills.

Exactly, Definately skilled and has good athleticism. Hey they found DeQuan who was a nice surprise and this kid might be more skilled than him so you never know.
Faith, Family, & Orlando Magic
#2A
#Adopt
#MAGA
User avatar
Blue_and_Whte
RealGM
Posts: 24,661
And1: 9,551
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Location: Orlando, FL.
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1079 » by Blue_and_Whte » Wed May 29, 2013 12:35 pm

Bobby Ray wrote:
Def Swami wrote:Carter Williams vs. Trey Burke the new Russell Westbrook vs. Jerryd Bayless?

IIRC, most mock drafts had the Thunder selecting Bayless from Arizona because of his great performance there. They ended up taking a risk on Westbrook who didn't have as stellar numbers and was projected to go in the 9-11 range.
trey Burke is bayless? I'll just assume you're comparing situations

Sent from my expensive a$$ phone

No..Pretty much comparing players since Bayless is a more realistic/non fantasy comparison than Chris Paul. Although I dont see Carter Williams being as good as Westbrook either so...Keeping my expectations low for the group.
Faith, Family, & Orlando Magic
#2A
#Adopt
#MAGA
Optimus_Steel
RealGM
Posts: 38,173
And1: 12,161
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Location: Winter Garden, FL
   

Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIV "Lottery/Draft"Editi 

Post#1080 » by Optimus_Steel » Wed May 29, 2013 12:44 pm

MagicFan32 wrote:MCW's rebound numbers indicate an elite athlete at the PG position, the syracuse system makes it hard to tell what he can do in the NBA. i wouldn't touch him @ no.2 but outside the top 10 he's worth the risk




nbadraft.net compared MCW to Jerryl Sasser. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That's as major a red flag as there is.
aka: prorl

Return to Orlando Magic